Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

[westview33]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

How many of you guys find it mind boggling that this series has never excelled from an animation standpoint since the PS2 days?

I think Live 10 was the highest peak they could reach in terms of animations and even then it was average at best.

The thing that bothers me about EA is that they have this vision every year of taking the game to another level which is fine. But in order to fix the future you need to start with the present.

If this game had top notch animations dating back to Live 07 this series would have still survived and kept a solid fan base.

I don't care if the animations had to be canned even that would have been better than the junk we have seen on the floor over the last 5-6 years with this series.

How hard is it to make things believable on the floor when watching the players animate/move?

They could have put a lot of their resources into just adding hundreds of new animations to this game and ported NBA Live 10 over with improved synergy and this game would have rocked right out of the box.

But instead they went back to the drawing boards for the like 3rd time since the PS2 days and for the 3rd time they FAILED miserably.

[kingpnp3]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

How many of you guys find it mind boggling that this series has never excelled from an animation standpoint since the PS2 days?

I think Live 10 was the highest peak they could reach in terms of animations and even then it was average at best.

The thing that bothers me about EA is that they have this vision every year of taking the game to another level which is fine. But in order to fix the future you need to start with the present.

If this game had top notch animations dating back to Live 07 this series would have still survived and kept a solid fan base.

I don't care if the animations had to be canned even that would have been better than the junk we have seen on the floor over the last 5-6 years with this series.

How hard is it to make things believable on the floor when watching the players animate/move?

They could have put a lot of their resources into just adding hundreds of new animations to this game and ported NBA Live 10 over with improved synergy and this game would have rocked right out of the box.

But instead they went back to the drawing boards for the like 3rd time since the PS2 days and for the 3rd time they FAILED miserably.

you are 90% correct. the 10% you're not correct on is saying you dont care if the animations were canned as long as they were good. SORRY i aint down with that at all. you want live to be 2k. go buy/play 2k then. its really that simple.

the more canned animations you have the less control the user has over each player. sorry i dont buy games to watch the cpu make all the decisions for me. thats called a ROLE playing game. where you make a choice, sit back and watch the rest. No thanks. i want my controls to be 1:1 i hit a button it reacts. if that reaction doesnt pan out like i want as long as the outcome is reality based. then i'm good to go. thats what live needs to work on as well as better 1:1 controlled animations.

the next level of basketball games will not just be pretty graphics. it will be how to get out of any locked in animations without it looking unrealistic and glitchy.

2k still has a lot of canned animations in their game, not nearly as many as they had in the past. but it looks great

live doesnt have many if any at all. but it doesnt look good enough


the gap has to be bridged. i refuse to be ok with 2k with a business as usual approach or a live below level graphics just to get away from canned animations, approach.

i wouldnt be surprised if some other company came along and showed them both how its done right. cause it seems like they are both so stuck in the way they usually do things they really dont know how to bridge that gap.

[kingpnp3]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

I honestly don't think EA has the resources nor the know how to make a good NBA game anymore.

i believe they may have the know how to some degree. but i dont think EA is giving the live team the resources(not just devs but MONEY for bringing in more people to capture more animations and apply that to a game where the animations are not canned animations that have you stuck not actually controlling the game play but watching. usually when your basic animations are lacking its because you dont have the time or the money to get enough hours in with guys playing real basketball with the suits on so you can record all of that and then apply it to the game. that stuff costs a ton of money as well as a ton of man hours. and the fact they keep giving the live team only a normal dev cycle tells me all i need to know when it comes to how live is treated by EA. i believe EA is like "hurry up and put something out there."

they are not in lockstep with the live team. which is a huge issue. the live team and EA need to be on the same page with this game. if they actually want a game to not just surpass the competition but actually hit the mark as the most realistic bball game ever. EA will have to give the live team more then 9 months each cycle. that means they have to allow dedicated devs to the live team with extra help. that wont leave to help with other games. to do this they need to hire more devs(MORE MONEY they dont want to spend.)

the live team needs an open budget and open resources. to the point where yes they will blow a ton of cash. and no EA may not recoup on the first installment. but once the people realize "oh my this nba live is the best simulated hoop game by far." you will get people to jump on it like clock work the next year. but EA isnt willing to take a big loss early to win big later. thats what happens when you're publicly traded on the stock market and you have to answer to shareholders barking about profits.so i think it will always be a super uphill battle for the live team to ever produce a proper game thats worth $60.00

[blackceasar]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

i believe they may have the know how to some degree. but i dont think EA is giving the live team the resources(not just devs but MONEY for bringing in more people to capture more animations and apply that to a game where the animations are not canned animations that have you stuck not actually controlling the game play but watching. usually when your basic animations are lacking its because you dont have the time or the money to get enough hours in with guys playing real basketball with the suits on so you can record all of that and then apply it to the game. that stuff costs a ton of money as well as a ton of man hours. and the fact they keep giving the live team only a normal dev cycle tells me all i need to know when it comes to how live is treated by EA. i believe EA is like "hurry up and put something out there."

they are not in lockstep with the live team. which is a huge issue. the live team and EA need to be on the same page with this game. if they actually want a game to not just surpass the competition but actually hit the mark as the most realistic bball game ever. EA will have to give the live team more then 9 months each cycle. that means they have to allow dedicated devs to the live team with extra help. that wont leave to help with other games. to do this they need to hire more devs(MORE MONEY they dont want to spend.)

the live team needs an open budget and open resources. to the point where yes they will blow a ton of cash. and no EA may not recoup on the first installment. but once the people realize "oh my this nba live is the best simulated hoop game by far." you will get people to jump on it like clock work the next year. but EA isnt willing to take a big loss early to win big later. thats what happens when you're publicly traded on the stock market and you have to answer to shareholders barking about profits.so i think it will always be a super uphill battle for the live team to ever produce a proper game thats worth $60.00

What they are probably secretly doing is saving their money. This is why they don't put time and man hours and money behind live. They probably have this big chart in this big board room with projections showing how much money they will have saved up by a certain year...and that year is probably marked with a big "BUY NBA LICENSE!!!!" sticker on it... just think, if they ever pull that one off.. live 22 will pretty much be live 14 with a different cover athlete.

Okay so I'm PARTIALLY kidding with my conspiracy theory but the Live Franchise is just another story in the repeat sage of what happens when a parent company gets TOO BIG. When you get as big as EA is now.. you have investors, and 55 VP titles created and filled by people with MBA's... It goes from being a place where though, effort, caring, drive, creativity and passion for making great games (and profiting from them) to a place where Harvard MBA's with their finance and marketing backgrounds use shortsightedness to see how big of a bonus they can get this quarter.

Look at Apple... Apple has went downhill some since Jobs passed away. They are still a mighty entity, but they are no longer putting distance between themselves and the competition.

Look at other companies that at one time had a heart and soul and it showed in their product only to be bought out or turned out for bigger profits and infested with tons of new hires that really know nothing about the product their company is making..they are just bottom line experts.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

'Role playing' is leaving your man completely wide open and there AI essentially breaking down and not passing to that open man because your not where it wants you to be....THATS role playing....

and Live '14 has PLENTY of canned animations....let's not confuse a severe lack of animations with realism...

[NvME]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

They made a HUGE mistake by not releasing NBA Live 14 on current-gen.
Those EA ppl who suggested it could compete with NBA 2K on next-gen systems should be fired.

Quite the opposite, really. The battle on the current gen consoles was LOST. There was no money to be made, only to be lost. In that regard, EA cutting their losses and focusing on the next gen was a smart business decision. The problem is that EA's NG title appears as if it was developed for a console two generations ago. It's repulsive and inexcusable, but the right call was made in focusing money and resources on the NG platforms. Anyone with any sort of business acumen will tell you the same.

[magicman32]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

All I know is playing NBA Live has allowed me to APPRECIATE the other game even more. It really puts into perspective how hard it is to make a realistic looking basketball sim.

I think Live messed up by listening to all the Live fans who were screaming... "we hate canned animations". After that we got Elite where they tried to pitch Real time Physics and 1 to 1 gameplay. They messed up the source code and haven't been able to recover ever since. It's sad really, because NBA Live 14 is a hot mess. Elite was terrible. Live 12 didn't even come out. And Live 13 was worse than Elite with all those herky jerky animations.

The bottom line is basketball needs animations to play out to look real. The key is the most of the animations should be "breakable". I think this is where 2k has focused on gameplay wise and has gotten better with over the years. While Live really don't know how to implement their vision. I'm convinced they don't have the tech or the talent to make a great basketball game. It's been too many years and too many duds. Live 10 was their best effort on last gen and how long did it take them to get there?

I wasn't a huge fan of Live 10, but looking back at it now and seeing what EA has been doing with Live for 4 years, Live 10 wasn't half bad.

EA should be ashamed. And IMO, the Live series won't survive. I don't think the suits like wasting money.

[GisherJohn24]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

Anyone think this is NBA elite ?? Some guy on youtube posted a video of live 14 and the canceled Elite gameplay from m 360 and the similarity in graphics, player movement and dribbling was uncannily similar!

[swac07]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

Anyone think this is NBA elite ?? Some guy on youtube posted a video of live 14 and the canceled Elite gameplay from m 360 and the similarity in graphics, player movement and dribbling was uncannily similar!

Honestly...I've been thinking the same thing..On Shakedown's recent video he posted game play of nba live 13 which was supposed to be released as a xbla game ..and live 14..they look VERY similar with some minor touch ups in 14...and seeing that 13 was cancelled...I wouldn't be surprised if it is "13" re-wrapped as 14....Not saying it is...but it is something that makes you raise an eyebrow when you actually think about it

[Phreak50]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

That's what I've been saying for 2 weeks now.


This is not Live 10. Live 10 was great. If they were going to be so half-assed about it and just touch up an old engine, they should have used 10. At least then, it would have been enjoyable.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

All I know is playing NBA Live has allowed me to APPRECIATE the other game even more. It really puts into perspective how hard it is to make a realistic looking basketball sim.

I think Live messed up by listening to all the Live fans who were screaming... "we hate canned animations". After that we got Elite where they tried to pitch Real time Physics and 1 to 1 gameplay. They messed up the source code and haven't been able to recover ever since. It's sad really, because NBA Live 14 is a hot mess. Elite was terrible. Live 12 didn't even come out. And Live 13 was worse than Elite with all those herky jerky animations.

The bottom line is basketball needs animations to play out to look real. The key is the most of the animations should be "breakable". I think this is where 2k has focused on gameplay wise and has gotten better with over the years. While Live really don't know how to implement their vision. I'm convinced they don't have the tech or the talent to make a great basketball game. It's been too many years and too many duds. Live 10 was their best effort on last gen and how long did it take them to get there?

I wasn't a huge fan of Live 10, but looking back at it now and seeing what EA has been doing with Live for 4 years, Live 10 wasn't half bad.

EA should be ashamed. And IMO, the Live series won't survive. I don't think the suits like wasting money.

Except Live fans weren't screaming about animations until "canned animations" became apart of EA's latest buzzwords during the Elite hype train. Live 10 was the greatest basketball game ever made, much better (and of course more fun, gotta throw that in) than 2K10 at the time. Once the Elite ball was rolling and hyping up real time physics and the war on animations, that's when the screams started. It's pretty much how the pattern works. Every current Live is the greatest, most FUN thing ever with no game breaking flaws until the hype train starts for the next one and the devs start dissing whatever they "fixed" from the previous version.

[Jano]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

Except Live fans weren't screaming about animations until "canned animations" became apart of EA's latest buzzwords during the Elite hype train. Live 10 was the greatest basketball game ever made, much better (and of course more fun, gotta throw that in) than 2K10 at the time. Once the Elite ball was rolling and hyping up real time physics and the war on animations, that's when the screams started. It's pretty much how the pattern works. Every current Live is the greatest, most FUN thing ever with no game breaking flaws until the hype train starts for the next one and the devs start dissing whatever they "fixed" from the previous version.

And I pray that it doesn't happen again.. please EA just stick to a 3 year plan for once.. smh

I'd much rather see them go in a direction I don't agree with and possibly win me over later on then to reset again.

[iseedeadpeople]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

please EA just stick to a 3 year plan for once.. smh

I recall a three year plan for the MLB 2K series at the start of this generation.

[GisherJohn24]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

Elites player models look very similar to the models we have on 14. And the ESPN implantation is certainly similar too. Welcome to the canceled engine of NBA Elite everyone. We've been duped!

[JBulls]

Re: Sean O'Brien Issues Apology for NBA Live's Quality, Promises Improvements

So what was the last previous live game O'Brien produced?

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