If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

[El_Poopador]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

If both games are horrible then maybe a company comes out if they feel they can sway fans and are able to make a profit, but that would still be risky because they would be looking into long-term goals. The situation that exists now is far more risky with 2k being a winner right now, and EA being the loser not giving up their spot. Companies that probably wanted to come in probably thought that EA would finally compete with 2k this time around having time, so they were not going to invest into basketball with that situation looming. With the reception Nba Live 14 is receiving, then maybe EA finally gives up their spot so another company comes in that second slot to show what they can do. I want EA to survive and make a respectable game, but they string along their fan base with their games.

i would like to preface this by saying that i could care less who makes the basketball game(s) i buy. im not a fan of one company or an antifan of another. i like video games. i like sports. i like sports video games. thats it

key words in bold. if a company can make a good game then there is no reason not to release it other than another company making a better one. but by your argument ea is making a poor game so that should not prevent another company from making something better. even if ea ducks out why would another company hop in since 2k has the majority of the market?

[blackceasar]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

There you go again, but I said that and firmly stand by it. By EA dropping the ball for three straight years and not relinquishing their position on the basketball market, it allowed no one else to enter the market because two companies were still controlling the market economic wise. EA was MIA, but other companies saw that they were not giving up, so they were not going to take the risk going head on with 2K and having to face EA as well when they decided to come back. Only two games max can survive in the video sports game market.

This is maybe one of the funniest posts I've seen in this thread. At least we know you didn't receive a Harvard MBA lol

Look man, what is up with this "they didn't allow for other publishers to make an NBA game". It's not as if EA bought the NBA license. So what you're saying is that EA should stop making their game so other publishers feel like they have a shot and then are willing to potentially invest resources into making their own NBA game?

You do know we live in America right? If OS was a game publishing company, they could start development on their own NBA basketball game if they wanted to. They would have to pony up the same cash to use the license as EA and 2k does but I don't see how that's "not fair".

Why should EA Sports (as much as I'm not a fan of Live) have to stop putting out an NBA basketball game just so someone else can? That's like me telling Jay Z, "man... it's no fair you have become an empire and because of that I never tried to ask Beyonce out when she was single because I felt I didnt have shot with you being the empire you are! NO FAIR! Step aside and let someone else ask her out!". Do you see how stupid and silly I would have sounded? Its the same argument for EA "giving up their spot" so another company can make a game. Why is EA's success have to be brought into question or "review" or "busted up"? A company can choose to or choose NOT TO pay for the NBA license usage and try and put out a 3rd NBA branded title. ITS A FREAKING FREE MARKET WHERE NBA IS CONCERNED. This isnt EA and Madden and the NFL.. that's a whole other discussion.

And when in the heck made you the business authority on how many games of a certain genre can survive?

Let me get "fantastical" on you... what if a company showed their NBA game at the Next E3..and what if the game looked EXACTLY like real tv.. not a super close representation but looked like true live television? And what if it played better than both 2k and Live.. and what if it had every single thing we have ever asked of in our Live and 2k wishlist threads? I know this isnt going to happen, but humor me.. what if one company that didn't have the "defeated" mindset you have and said "f-it.. we are putting this out"... what you would have is.... *drumroll*......

A THIRD NBA TITLE IN MARKET THAT'S BETTER THAN 2k AND LIVE! WOW. AMAZING!

EA and 2k should not be punished because 1 has a ton of money (but dont own the license) and the other puts out a really great basketball game. No one is forcing people to buy one game or the other. People have CHOICES.. if really good 3rd NBA game was published, that's just another choice consumers have.

So should the government step in and "regulate" this now? Tell EA Sports "if you aren't going to put out a basketball game we like, then stop making them because you're scaring other companies away from making one"... hahaha.. do you see how silly that sounds? Seriously... but pretty much you're saying EA should "let" someone else in, when in truth the door is WIDE OPEN... rather than taking the stance you have on this.. maybe you should spend your energy lobbying another game publisher to put out a third title. I can be done.. and the two publishers that have a game in market right now is NOT stopping anyone... its boilds down to how bad does that third company want it. Are the willing to invest the time, money and resources to put a better game out? If not.. then dont do it.. if so then do it.. most of us here could care lesss WHO'S making the best basketball game. Paris Hilton could make the best basketball game ever, and we would buy it... and not look at Live or 2k.

[shutdown10]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

This is maybe one of the funniest posts I've seen in this thread. At least we know you didn't receive a Harvard MBA lol

Look man, what is up with this "they didn't allow for other publishers to make an NBA game". It's not as if EA bought the NBA license. So what you're saying is that EA should stop making their game so other publishers feel like they have a shot and then are willing to potentially invest resources into making their own NBA game?

You do know we live in America right? If OS was a game publishing company, they could start development on their own NBA basketball game if they wanted to. They would have to pony up the same cash to use the license as EA and 2k does but I don't see how that's "not fair".

Why should EA Sports (as much as I'm not a fan of Live) have to stop putting out an NBA basketball game just so someone else can? That's like me telling Jay Z, "man... it's no fair you have become an empire and because of that I never tried to ask Beyonce out when she was single because I felt I didnt have shot with you being the empire you are! NO FAIR! Step aside and let someone else ask her out!". Do you see how stupid and silly I would have sounded? Its the same argument for EA "giving up their spot" so another company can make a game. Why is EA's success have to be brought into question or "review" or "busted up"? A company can choose to or choose NOT TO pay for the NBA license usage and try and put out a 3rd NBA branded title. ITS A FREAKING FREE MARKET WHERE NBA IS CONCERNED. This isnt EA and Madden and the NFL.. that's a whole other discussion.

And when in the heck made you the business authority on how many games of a certain genre can survive?

Let me get "fantastical" on you... what if a company showed their NBA game at the Next E3..and what if the game looked EXACTLY like real tv.. not a super close representation but looked like true live television? And what if it played better than both 2k and Live.. and what if it had every single thing we have ever asked of in our Live and 2k wishlist threads? I know this isnt going to happen, but humor me.. what if one company that didn't have the "defeated" mindset you have and said "f-it.. we are putting this out"... what you would have is.... *drumroll*......

A THIRD NBA TITLE IN MARKET THAT'S BETTER THAN 2k AND LIVE! WOW. AMAZING!

EA and 2k should not be punished because 1 has a ton of money (but dont own the license) and the other puts out a really great basketball game. No one is forcing people to buy one game or the other. People have CHOICES.. if really good 3rd NBA game was published, that's just another choice consumers have.

So should the government step in and "regulate" this now? Tell EA Sports "if you aren't going to put out a basketball game we like, then stop making them because you're scaring other companies away from making one"... hahaha.. do you see how silly that sounds? Seriously... but pretty much you're saying EA should "let" someone else in, when in truth the door is WIDE OPEN... rather than taking the stance you have on this.. maybe you should spend your energy lobbying another game publisher to put out a third title. I can be done.. and the two publishers that have a game in market right now is NOT stopping anyone... its boilds down to how bad does that third company want it. Are the willing to invest the time, money and resources to put a better game out? If not.. then dont do it.. if so then do it.. most of us here could care lesss WHO'S making the best basketball game. Paris Hilton could make the best basketball game ever, and we would buy it... and not look at Live or 2k.

No I don't have an MBA in Harvard, but I understand that although 2k And EA don't own the NBA license they still take up the market share in that niche. I did not say that EA is willfully blocking another company from making a basketball game. I'm saying that EA is stopping another company from making a basketball game financial wise. They are looking at the investment and drive they will have to put in by purchasing their portion of the NBA license to publish their game. Next they will have to compete with the 2k and EA who have loyal fan-bases. Did I say that EA is setting up traps for other companies to stay away? Please read my post carefully before you respond carelessly. EA was forced to make NBA Live 14 because they were contacted by the NBA last year who told them that they needed to make a game this year or they were going to face legal issues because they were breaching their contract with the NBA. If a third company could have just made a basketball game in this ugly situation, then why has one not stepped in through that three year void with 2k being the only game coming out? I'm waiting!

[shutdown10]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

i would like to preface this by saying that i could care less who makes the basketball game(s) i buy. im not a fan of one company or an antifan of another. i like video games. i like sports. i like sports video games. thats it

key words in bold. if a company can make a good game then there is no reason not to release it other than another company making a better one. but by your argument ea is making a poor game so that should not prevent another company from making something better. even if ea ducks out why would another company hop in since 2k has the majority of the market?

If another company comes in that situation, then they will not have the adequate resources to compete with either of the two. It would take a sizable investment to compete with either of the two. This is not a COD or BF shoot em up games situation, because those two games do not have to pay the Military to take in their likenesses in their game. If you want to make an NBA game then you will have to foot a big budget. Maybe a company has the funding to foot the bill, but do they want to take the risk with those two already in the market for awhile? If it was so easy, then why has no other company come in with EA being gone for three years but still having their license contract with the NBA? I'm waiting!

[El_Poopador]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

If another company comes in that situation, then they will not have the adequate resources to compete with either of the two. It would take a sizable investment to compete with either of the two. This is not a COD or BF shoot em up games situation, because those two games do not have to pay the Military to take in their likenesses in their game. If you want to make an NBA game then you will have to foot a big budget. Maybe a company has the funding to foot the bill, but do they want to take the risk with those two already in the market for awhile? If it was so easy, then why has no other company come in with EA being gone for three years but still having their license contract with the NBA? I'm waiting!

thats the question that you need to answer. if ea not being in the game would open the door then why hasnt anyone come in while ea was out of it?

ea not being there wouldnt change the cost of the nba license. ea not being there wouldnt change the investment the other company would need to make with 2k being in the position its in. and eas current share in the nba gaming market isnt exactly substantial especially not to the point that youre talking about. according to vgchartz live 14 has sold 70K units so far. so even if live wasnt there do you think that 70K units would really have that big of an impact on a different game?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

This is maybe one of the funniest posts I've seen in this thread. At least we know you didn't receive a Harvard MBA lol

Look man, what is up with this "they didn't allow for other publishers to make an NBA game". It's not as if EA bought the NBA license. So what you're saying is that EA should stop making their game so other publishers feel like they have a shot and then are willing to potentially invest resources into making their own NBA game?

You do know we live in America right? If OS was a game publishing company, they could start development on their own NBA basketball game if they wanted to. They would have to pony up the same cash to use the license as EA and 2k does but I don't see how that's "not fair".

Why should EA Sports (as much as I'm not a fan of Live) have to stop putting out an NBA basketball game just so someone else can? That's like me telling Jay Z, "man... it's no fair you have become an empire and because of that I never tried to ask Beyonce out when she was single because I felt I didnt have shot with you being the empire you are! NO FAIR! Step aside and let someone else ask her out!". Do you see how stupid and silly I would have sounded? Its the same argument for EA "giving up their spot" so another company can make a game. Why is EA's success have to be brought into question or "review" or "busted up"? A company can choose to or choose NOT TO pay for the NBA license usage and try and put out a 3rd NBA branded title. ITS A FREAKING FREE MARKET WHERE NBA IS CONCERNED. This isnt EA and Madden and the NFL.. that's a whole other discussion.

And when in the heck made you the business authority on how many games of a certain genre can survive?

Let me get "fantastical" on you... what if a company showed their NBA game at the Next E3..and what if the game looked EXACTLY like real tv.. not a super close representation but looked like true live television? And what if it played better than both 2k and Live.. and what if it had every single thing we have ever asked of in our Live and 2k wishlist threads? I know this isnt going to happen, but humor me.. what if one company that didn't have the "defeated" mindset you have and said "f-it.. we are putting this out"... what you would have is.... *drumroll*......

A THIRD NBA TITLE IN MARKET THAT'S BETTER THAN 2k AND LIVE! WOW. AMAZING!

EA and 2k should not be punished because 1 has a ton of money (but dont own the license) and the other puts out a really great basketball game. No one is forcing people to buy one game or the other. People have CHOICES.. if really good 3rd NBA game was published, that's just another choice consumers have.

So should the government step in and "regulate" this now? Tell EA Sports "if you aren't going to put out a basketball game we like, then stop making them because you're scaring other companies away from making one"... hahaha.. do you see how silly that sounds? Seriously... but pretty much you're saying EA should "let" someone else in, when in truth the door is WIDE OPEN... rather than taking the stance you have on this.. maybe you should spend your energy lobbying another game publisher to put out a third title. I can be done.. and the two publishers that have a game in market right now is NOT stopping anyone... its boilds down to how bad does that third company want it. Are the willing to invest the time, money and resources to put a better game out? If not.. then dont do it.. if so then do it.. most of us here could care lesss WHO'S making the best basketball game. Paris Hilton could make the best basketball game ever, and we would buy it... and not look at Live or 2k.

My man, your Beyoncé, Jay-Z comparison has to be the worst in the history of OS comparisons. It's not the same argument because you run absolutely zero financial risk asking Beyoncé out. Hell, if I got the opportunity I'd do it. It's actually easier than anything, because I know I don't have a shot in hell with her and when she does say no, I walk away with no hurt ego cause I just asked out ****ing Beyoncé son!

Anyway, his point makes perfect business sense. Companies think from dollar sign perspectives, the dollars simply don't add up to take the gamble at this time. For example, do you recall last year or maybe two years ago when Microsoft pulled Xbox 360 out of the European market? They released they couldn't compete with Sony in those overseas markets so they said **** it and backed out. Companies pay attention to dollars man. Always have, always will.

No I don't have an MBA in Harvard, but I understand that although 2k And EA don't own the NBA license they still take up the market share in that niche. I did not say that EA is willfully blocking another company from making a basketball game. I'm saying that EA is stopping another company from making a basketball game financial wise. They are looking at the investment and drive they will have to put in by purchasing their portion of the NBA license to publish their game. Next they will have to compete with the 2k and EA who have loyal fan-bases. Did I say that EA is setting up traps for other companies to stay away? Please read my post carefully before you respond carelessly. EA was forced to make NBA Live 14 because they were contacted by the NBA last year who told them that they needed to make a game this year or they were going to face legal issues because they were breaching their contract with the NBA. If a third company could have just made a basketball game in this ugly situation, then why has one not stepped in through that three year void with 2k being the only game coming out? I'm waiting!

Can't get behind you on saying stuff that's not true or not confirmed somewhere man. When and where did you hear anything about the NBA contacting EA and threatening legal action if they didn't release a game?

[DonWuan]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

What the hell are y'all talking about lol.

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk

[shutdown10]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

My man, your Beyoncé, Jay-Z comparison has to be the worst in the history of OS comparisons. It's not the same argument because you run absolutely zero financial risk asking Beyoncé out. Hell, if I got the opportunity I'd do it. It's actually easier than anything, because I know I don't have a shot in hell with her and when she does say no, I walk away with no hurt ego cause I just asked out ****ing Beyoncé son!

Anyway, his point makes perfect business sense. Companies think from dollar sign perspectives, the dollars simply don't add up to take the gamble at this time. For example, do you recall last year or maybe two years ago when Microsoft pulled Xbox 360 out of the European market? They released they couldn't compete with Sony in those overseas markets so they said **** it and backed out. Companies pay attention to dollars man. Always have, always will.



Can't get behind you on saying stuff that's not true or not confirmed somewhere man. When and where did you hear anything about the NBA contacting EA and threatening legal action if they didn't release a game?

I cannot provide physical evidence, but I have a friend who works for EA and he told me about this matter. I understand that you cannot back me up on this because I cannot support it with documented proof, but thanks for backing up my other points. I won't bring the NBA contract into this anymore because I do not want to be flagged for not having documented proof.

[23]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

So... all of these pages. Any thoughts on the actual article itself?

[DonWuan]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

So... all of these pages. Any thoughts on the actual article itself?

Time to close?

Sent from my M353 using Tapatalk

[23]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

No, we don't close front page article threads

Im just curious when people will address what was actually said in the article itself and get off of company x y and z. The biggest distraction of them all is the fact that you always bring in side companies when talking about the issues at hand here.

How about the trust issue, because looking around everywhere, its still busted. Its in the article and I've personally only saw this company open with fans back when Live 10 was being made, and thats it. You had StephensonMC completely transparent even when folks were hostile and he stuck with it and became a favorite of alot of people here... you had Mike Wang doing videos from his house, etc...

After that this year, which I care not to get into the way things were done.. it hasn't done a thing to repair that relationship with the community and I think the article mentions this as well. At this point its like sorry for selling you an unfinished game at full price, but hang on for updates and while you're at it, go ahead and pick up Live 15 when it releases while you're at it....

Well ok then.

[shutdown10]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

No, we don't close front page article threads

Im just curious when people will address what was actually said in the article itself and get off of company x y and z. The biggest distraction of them all is the fact that you always bring in side companies when talking about the issues at hand here.

How about the trust issue, because looking around everywhere, its still busted. Its in the article and I've personally only saw this company open with fans back when Live 10 was being made, and thats it. You had StephensonMC completely transparent even when folks were hostile and he stuck with it and became a favorite of alot of people here... you had Mike Wang doing videos from his house, etc...

After that this year, which I care not to get into the way things were done.. it hasn't done a thing to repair that relationship with the community and I think the article mentions this as well. At this point its like sorry for selling you an unfinished game at full price, but hang on for updates and while you're at it, go ahead and pick up Live 15 when it releases while you're at it....

Well ok then.

I admit I kinda got sidetracked with my posting lately in this thread recently. I did mention earlier in this thread that the Live team had to embrace the community again if they want to rebuild Live as a respectable title. It just seems like they want to hide behind the shadows on here and post once or twice every other week saying they are seeing what we are writing, but are not keeping an open line of communication with us to see what feedback is being implemented. If they want to survive, then they need to open the lines of communication with the community whole lot more. People want to see their progress and execution for this game going forward.

[blackceasar]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

If another company comes in that situation, then they will not have the adequate resources to compete with either of the two. It would take a sizable investment to compete with either of the two. This is not a COD or BF shoot em up games situation, because those two games do not have to pay the Military to take in their likenesses in their game. If you want to make an NBA game then you will have to foot a big budget. Maybe a company has the funding to foot the bill, but do they want to take the risk with those two already in the market for awhile? If it was so easy, then why has no other company come in with EA being gone for three years but still having their license contract with the NBA? I'm waiting!

No one said it was EASY...we are trying to tell you in spite of it not being easy, a company could still do it. Don't blame Live and 2k for another potential company not wanting to take a risk. do you think Steve Jobs had it easy when he was trying to build his first computer in his garage and tried to carve out market share? Look at Apple and the iPhone now.. they now hold over HALF the smartphone market share in the world... there was a time though when the iphone never existed and the world was dominated by Blackberry, Samsung, Motorola, etc...

Look at when Myspace was like the place to be online in social. There was a time when Myspace has over 88% of the social media market share... until some smart kid (from Harvard lol) came along and looked at the 800lb gorilla that was Myspace (and a few others) and said "so what, I can make a better product".. and he did..and he carved out some market share... then took over...

Again, whatever is going on with EA Sports and the NBA is between EA Sports and the NBA... this has nothing to do with someone else making a game or not. Im just going back to what you said about "they keep missing the mark, they need to step aside some SOMEONE ELSE CAN put a game out".. someone else can put a game out right now. Sure, there's money and all sorts of things that have to be taken into account but thats not EA's fault. I mean honestly there's nothing stopping me from putting out my own smart phone to compete with Apple's iPhone.. granted I don't because of Apples market share..... market share... that term.. you brought it up again to defend your point about EA.

Maybe you just need to choose your words differently then. Yes, EA and 2k Sports have all of the market share of NBA video games... But do you understand market share is a PERCENTAGE? like.. umm.. X out of 100%? Its a pie.. they both take up the whole pie because no one else has brought a knife to the table, to cut out a slice for themselves. There's never market share thats just "out there"... you gain market share and you loose market share.. and some other compaies throw their hat into the right (or knife to the table) and carve out some market share as well. Yes, do you realize these two companies are always going to hold 100% of the market share because its 100% of the market divided by two.. but its not split down the middle, one has more than the other for various reasons.. game quality, brand recognition, fan base, etc.. ALL of these factor in to just how that pie chart looks like.

Here's something else you need to understand about market share... it's not "given" to a company. Its not like there's this "market share God" that said okay.. you get this much market share, and you over here you get this much.. and you over there you get this much. MARKET SHARE IS EARNED. IT'S NOT GIVEN.. and when I say "earn" I use that term loosley...I mean earn in the sense that companies do whatever they can to get a bigger peice of it.. but again, the pie doesnt have to be divided by just two people.

Granted Madden has 100% of the NFL football video game market share because they own the rights to the NFL... in that sense it's not a free market.. but in a way, it was.. someone else could have bought the rights.. EA just was willing to meet the NFL's asking price.. but again.. others could have tried to get it.

There's this AWESOME documentary on the History Channel.. I don't think it airs anymore but you can watch the episodes on the history channels site.. its called "The Men Who Built America"..and its pretty badass.. it followed Vanderbilt (railorads), Rockefeller (oil), Andrew Carnage (steel), and JP Morgan (banking and electric).. and there are times where they cut away to modern day moguls (trump, mark cuban, etc etc) and they all said the same thing.. these guys succeded because they carved out their own nitches because they took risks when other's would not...

Again, another man's success is not another man's excuse for not trying. Some people have balls, and some dont.. it's that simple.

But again.. market share.. look it up.. really read about what that means.

[blackceasar]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

And here's a much shorter post on the article.

Trust. Period. EA Sports has handled the Live situation since Elite 11 the way most politicials handle everything in washington. Not trying to get political here, I'm just drawing a comparisoin. Politicians are good at "talking the talk".. but very very few actually walk the walk. It's usually smoke and mirros with a little bit of actual work getting done peppered in. This is kinda where EA Sports is at with Live now.

They pretty much set themselves up for the blacklash. Here's how a lot of it could have been avoided.

1. Shouldnt have got on the soap box that much when they scrapped Elite 11.

2. Should have started working right away on (at least current gen) Live 14 and got it really GOOD and ported it over to next gen (would have been better than what you have now on next gen Live).

3. After realizing the game wasnt going to be "that good" for 2014.. should have begged the board memembers and shareholders to let them put the game out at All Star Break. NBA season heats up after all star break... would have been an OK time to release the game.


I cant help but feel bigger people who arent into the business of making great games at EA Sports pushed them to push this game out at next gen launch because they were looking at pie charts and stock market tickers and felt launching at the same time as next gen would be good for the bottom line... and it all backfired... mainly because of points 1 and 2.

[El_Poopador]

Re: If NBA Live Has a Future, It Has to Look Radically Different

Anyway, his point makes perfect business sense. Companies think from dollar sign perspectives, the dollars simply don't add up to take the gamble at this time. For example, do you recall last year or maybe two years ago when Microsoft pulled Xbox 360 out of the European market? They released they couldn't compete with Sony in those overseas markets so they said **** it and backed out. Companies pay attention to dollars man. Always have, always will.

the only problem with that example is the part in bold. sony is the major platform there. it is the 2k in that example. we are not talking about the frontrunner. the argument you guys are making is more like the 360 pulling out because of the ouya.

that will be the last i say of that argument in accordance with the mods wishes.

in reply to 23: scott og has been on twitch a few times doing live streams. aj has commented on a few of the wish list threads about the feedback being left. but you dont mention that for whatever reason. im not sure why you hate live so much but it shows greatly.