Overall Rating Discussion

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  • Ermolli
    MVP
    • Jul 2009
    • 3315

    #31
    Re: Overall Rating Discussion

    Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
    Also, the data we receive from Synergy is used to drive those tendencies for individual players, drive direction, shooting areas, where and how to post, etc.

    What other tendencies did you have in mind?
    Does Synergy track defensive tendencies like steal attempts, where and how much they double team, defensive commitment, help one pass away? Haven't seen those type of tendencies on Live.

    Comment

    • jahswill
      Rookie
      • Dec 2004
      • 625

      #32
      Re: Overall Rating Discussion

      Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
      And a lot of people on here agree with the notion that the overall shouldn't matter just as long as they play how they're supposed to. On the other hand, the overall rating is a great way to just see how good somebody is quickly. It's also used to sort lists for free agency and the game uses it for multiple things in the background. So, it won't be going away any time soon.

      But, we can strive to make things better. What do you think should be weighted more in the overall rating?

      Also, the data we receive from Synergy is used to drive those tendencies for individual players, drive direction, shooting areas, where and how to post, etc.

      What other tendencies did you have in mind?
      I have one question. If Synergy drives tendencies, why do all CPU teams do that same exact baseline post spin? I and many others would still be enjoying the game, if every team didn't do that move at a 70% clip or more.
      JahsWill

      Comment

      • vtcrb
        Hall Of Fame
        • Nov 2006
        • 10294

        #33
        Re: Overall Rating Discussion

        Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
        And a lot of people on here agree with the notion that the overall shouldn't matter just as long as they play how they're supposed to. On the other hand, the overall rating is a great way to just see how good somebody is quickly. It's also used to sort lists for free agency and the game uses it for multiple things in the background. So, it won't be going away any time soon.

        But, we can strive to make things better. What do you think should be weighted more in the overall rating?

        Also, the data we receive from Synergy is used to drive those tendencies for individual players, drive direction, shooting areas, where and how to post, etc.

        What other tendencies did you have in mind?

        The Overall Rating doesnt Truly dictate how good a Player would be in Free Agency. It will Vary by team needs. The problem will be Signing Players, because Overall Rating dictates Contract Value.

        Weighting the Individual Ratings is also Tricky, but I would say the Top 3 are:

        Off and Def Awareness
        Shooting
        Ball Handling(Dribbling, Passing, Ball Security)


        Now with Tendencies, let me say i DONT have NBA Live14, but have looked at Videos and Screenshots of Tendencies. If i list one that is already included I apologize.

        Tendencies to ADD

        Use Pick
        Set Pick
        Shoot OR Pass After Pick
        Roll to Basket After Pick
        Dribbling Tendencies(Crossover, Spin, etc)
        Passing Tendencies(Bounce Pass, Chest pass, Alley Oop, Fancy Pass, etc)
        Layup Tendencies(Regular, Spin, EuroStep, etc)
        Post Shot (Hook Shots, FadeAways, etc)
        Post Moves(Spin, Drive, Back Down, Face Up)
        Pass out of Post
        Crash Boards
        Block Shot
        Attempt Steal
        Play Passing Lanes
        Take Charge
        Runner/Floater

        I am sure I am leaving out some, just thought I would throw those out there.


        I would have to say Synergy is GREAT Idea, BUT i believe USERs should be able to Customize Roster as they see fit. So i would say Adding that option to NBA Live15 would be a MAJOR Boost.
        NBA 2k18 Roster:
        http://forums.operationsports.com/vt...okies-xboxone/




        Twitter: @VTCRBTEC

        Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKL...1uva35l4zFEofg

        Roster Editing for Over a Decade

        Comment

        • _Fernando
          MVP
          • Mar 2014
          • 235

          #34
          Re: Overall Rating Discussion

          Originally posted by Ermolli
          Does Synergy track defensive tendencies like steal attempts, where and how much they double team, defensive commitment, help one pass away? Haven't seen those type of tendencies on Live.
          No, Yes, Not sure what you're asking and No.

          The defensive stuff is hard to track with the way Synergy does things.
          TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

          Comment

          • _Fernando
            MVP
            • Mar 2014
            • 235

            #35
            Re: Overall Rating Discussion

            Originally posted by jahswill
            I have one question. If Synergy drives tendencies, why do all CPU teams do that same exact baseline post spin? I and many others would still be enjoying the game, if every team didn't do that move at a 70% clip or more.
            Good question.

            I'll ask around and see what happened because you're not the first person to have that experience.
            TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

            Comment

            • _Fernando
              MVP
              • Mar 2014
              • 235

              #36
              Re: Overall Rating Discussion

              Originally posted by vtcrb
              The Overall Rating doesnt Truly dictate how good a Player would be in Free Agency. It will Vary by team needs. The problem will be Signing Players, because Overall Rating dictates Contract Value.

              Weighting the Individual Ratings is also Tricky, but I would say the Top 3 are:

              Off and Def Awareness
              Shooting
              Ball Handling(Dribbling, Passing, Ball Security)


              Now with Tendencies, let me say i DONT have NBA Live14, but have looked at Videos and Screenshots of Tendencies. If i list one that is already included I apologize.

              Tendencies to ADD

              Use Pick
              Set Pick
              Shoot OR Pass After Pick
              Roll to Basket After Pick
              Dribbling Tendencies(Crossover, Spin, etc)
              Passing Tendencies(Bounce Pass, Chest pass, Alley Oop, Fancy Pass, etc)
              Layup Tendencies(Regular, Spin, EuroStep, etc)
              Post Shot (Hook Shots, FadeAways, etc)
              Post Moves(Spin, Drive, Back Down, Face Up)
              Pass out of Post
              Crash Boards
              Block Shot
              Attempt Steal
              Play Passing Lanes
              Take Charge
              Runner/Floater

              I am sure I am leaving out some, just thought I would throw those out there.


              I would have to say Synergy is GREAT Idea, BUT i believe USERs should be able to Customize Roster as they see fit. So i would say Adding that option to NBA Live15 would be a MAJOR Boost.
              More good points about the overall rating. Definitely something we're trying to solve.

              Thanks for the feedback on what should be important for the overall. I don't agree with what you said BUT, it does tell me what you expect an overall rating to communicate to you as a user. I think that's important since, I've been asking that question a lot around here.

              About half of those tendencies are provided by Synergy and we're expecting to have them all hooked into the players to drive behaviors.
              TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

              Comment

              • vtcrb
                Hall Of Fame
                • Nov 2006
                • 10294

                #37
                Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
                More good points about the overall rating. Definitely something we're trying to solve.

                Thanks for the feedback on what should be important for the overall. I don't agree with what you said BUT, it does tell me what you expect an overall rating to communicate to you as a user. I think that's important since, I've been asking that question a lot around here.

                About half of those tendencies are provided by Synergy and we're expecting to have them all hooked into the players to drive behaviors.

                The problem with Overall is that it can Ruin a Salary Cap, because the Salaries are Dictated by Overall. Take the NBA for instance look how MANY Bigmen were overpaid just because of their Size or 1 or 2 skills.

                I would think that it would be better to go with WHAT makes each position Strong. Take for instance a PG. Higher Paid PGs have HIGH Off Aware, Pass and Ball Handling. Not sure HOW to incorporate that into a Video yet, as far as Importance and Salary when Dealing with Free Agency.

                Also wondering IF Editing Capabilities have been Discussed for NBA Live15? I know for ME, along with MANY others, that is a MUST for a Video Sports Game.
                NBA 2k18 Roster:
                http://forums.operationsports.com/vt...okies-xboxone/




                Twitter: @VTCRBTEC

                Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKL...1uva35l4zFEofg

                Roster Editing for Over a Decade

                Comment

                • _Fernando
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2014
                  • 235

                  #38
                  Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                  Originally posted by vtcrb
                  The problem with Overall is that it can Ruin a Salary Cap, because the Salaries are Dictated by Overall. Take the NBA for instance look how MANY Bigmen were overpaid just because of their Size or 1 or 2 skills.

                  I would think that it would be better to go with WHAT makes each position Strong. Take for instance a PG. Higher Paid PGs have HIGH Off Aware, Pass and Ball Handling. Not sure HOW to incorporate that into a Video yet, as far as Importance and Salary when Dealing with Free Agency.

                  Also wondering IF Editing Capabilities have been Discussed for NBA Live15? I know for ME, along with MANY others, that is a MUST for a Video Sports Game.
                  Because of the analytics movement big men who can defend the paint are definitely getting paid and sometimes, overpaid. The overall rating doesn't take into account height but, for Centers, blocks would be weighted more in the overall.

                  The way ratings are calculated now different positions are calculated differently, similar to the example you mentioned. Passing is weighted more for a PG and rebounding weighted more for a C.

                  As of now, there are no plans for roster editing. I'll make sure to let the team know how strongly the community feels about it.

                  Sound good?
                  TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

                  Comment

                  • vtcrb
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 10294

                    #39
                    Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                    Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
                    Because of the analytics movement big men who can defend the paint are definitely getting paid and sometimes, overpaid. The overall rating doesn't take into account height but, for Centers, blocks would be weighted more in the overall.

                    The way ratings are calculated now different positions are calculated differently, similar to the example you mentioned. Passing is weighted more for a PG and rebounding weighted more for a C.

                    As of now, there are no plans for roster editing. I'll make sure to let the team know how strongly the community feels about it.

                    Sound good?

                    Sounds great. I know the Community love the Interaction you are providing. I REALLY believe by Giving USERs the Ability to Edit you would DOUBLE, if not TRIPLE the amount of Buyers for Live15. USERs want as many Customization Options as Possible.

                    Thank You again for listening and Responding to my comments/suggestions.
                    NBA 2k18 Roster:
                    http://forums.operationsports.com/vt...okies-xboxone/




                    Twitter: @VTCRBTEC

                    Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKL...1uva35l4zFEofg

                    Roster Editing for Over a Decade

                    Comment

                    • loosey101
                      Rookie
                      • Nov 2013
                      • 355

                      #40
                      Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                      I agree, I understand you guys are working hard, but you're not going to gain a substantial amount of players if you don't give us the option to edit rosters ourselves. That's probably the #2 complaint I've heard behind graphics.

                      Comment

                      • Ermolli
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 3315

                        #41
                        Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                        Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
                        No, Yes, Not sure what you're asking and No.

                        The defensive stuff is hard to track with the way Synergy does things.
                        What I tried to say with defensive commitment (guess I couldn't find another term at the moment) is the amount of effort players give to the defensive side of the game, to separate the guys who always give their best on defense (independent of how good they're as defenders) like Tony Allen from guys who basically save their energy for offense like James Harden (not sure if you've seen his defensive "highlights" on YouTube). Not sure if that can be tracked but I believe it would be worth having in the game.
                        Last edited by Ermolli; 05-09-2014, 10:24 AM.

                        Comment

                        • _Fernando
                          MVP
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 235

                          #42
                          Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                          Originally posted by Ermolli
                          What I tried to say with defensive commitment (guess I couldn't find another term at the moment) is the amount of effort players give to the defensive side of the game, to separate the guys who always give their best on defense (independent of how good they're as defenders) like Tony Allen from guys who basically save their energy for offense like James Harden (not sure if you've seen his defensive "highlights" on YouTube). Not sure if that can be tracked but I believe it would be worth having in the game.
                          Oh yes, the infamous James Harden defensive highlights video.

                          Again, as we try and move subjectivity away from ratings, we'd need to find a way to quantify effort. It just can't be done right now.

                          I did find a way to calculate help defense using a myriad of stats and it did put Harden low and Allen high. So, hopefully that'll work going forward.
                          TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

                          Comment

                          • Ermolli
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 3315

                            #43
                            Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                            Originally posted by NBALIVE_Fernando
                            Oh yes, the infamous James Harden defensive highlights video.

                            Again, as we try and move subjectivity away from ratings, we'd need to find a way to quantify effort. It just can't be done right now.

                            I did find a way to calculate help defense using a myriad of stats and it did put Harden low and Allen high. So, hopefully that'll work going forward.
                            That's great Fernando, I know some stuff is difficult to put into objective ratings but your effort and interaction is appreciated.


                            About roster editing I also agree (like many for not saying most) that it should be on Live 15. Not sure if you've visited the rest of the forums but most people who play MLB The Show wait for the Full Minor roster from Knight165 to begin playing their franchise and single player modes; there are interesting roster files of NBA 2K (not trying to bring any kind of argument, it's just to bring an example) that recreates older seasons, what ifs and classic teams; even NCAA Football had roster editing which was a main feature and had people create huge rosters with college players. Roster editing also helps improving some gameplay issues, I remember there were roster edits for Live 10 which improved the speed and defensive rubberband effect the game had. So you can see roster editing is quite a big deal in sports videogames so it'd be quite a turnoff if Live 15 again doesn't have it when most game have it.

                            Comment

                            • Ermolli
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 3315

                              #44
                              Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                              About salary on Dynasty Mode, I feel salaries on Dynasty Mode should be dictated by stats and not so much on ratings. Players are payed based on their production during the past year more times than not, independent of their "ratings" if a player has a good year he usually get payed more than an underperforming better player, there's a reason many players play better during their contract years.
                              Also salaries should be according to their positions. Nowadays centers are payed more than other positions comparing the quality on their positions, so it would be more real if on Live 15 the average salary of centers is higher than point guards for example.
                              Overall ratings should be part of the players salary but shouldn't be the number one or only reason to dictate how much they earn on their salaries; potential, small or big market, previous injuries, team specific needs (rebounding, defense, three point shooting) could play a part on the amount a player is payed during free agency on Live 15.

                              Comment

                              • _Fernando
                                MVP
                                • Mar 2014
                                • 235

                                #45
                                Re: Overall Rating Discussion

                                Originally posted by Ermolli
                                About salary on Dynasty Mode, I feel salaries on Dynasty Mode should be dictated by stats and not so much on ratings. Players are payed based on their production during the past year more times than not, independent of their "ratings" if a player has a good year he usually get payed more than an underperforming better player, there's a reason many players play better during their contract years.
                                Also salaries should be according to their positions. Nowadays centers are payed more than other positions comparing the quality on their positions, so it would be more real if on Live 15 the average salary of centers is higher than point guards for example.
                                Overall ratings should be part of the players salary but shouldn't be the number one or only reason to dictate how much they earn on their salaries; potential, small or big market, previous injuries, team specific needs (rebounding, defense, three point shooting) could play a part on the amount a player is payed during free agency on Live 15.
                                Good stuff, some of those things are being worked on. But, I agree with what you said.

                                Thanks for the feedback!
                                TWITTER - FernandoJ_Rod

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