'Control and Responsiveness'

[The 24th Letter]

I know that control and responsiveness was a big part of what the NBA Live team said they were bringing to the table pre release. I know a it's what a lot of guy's in the community we're asking for as well.

I'm not seeing it myself....and I am interested on everyone's take on it.

There are some angles on the dribble stick that simply don't register a response at all at times. I'm also seeing that when I do get a response, there is a half a second delay in what I do. A lot of the dribble moves are accompanied by unwanted speed bursts that take you out of position and throw off some of the combinations you want to pull. When I heard Live was going back to the Live 10 model of dribbling I was excited about it...it was ultra responsive in that game. I don't feel like I have that same control in Live '15.

I think the way the defense reacts to you has a bit to do with it as well. I think when the Live team spent that extra time tweaking on ball defense, it was a band aid fix...because defenders don't really react to your dribble moves and seem suctioned to you forcing you into redirection animations you can't break out of. It just make's the half court game feel unnatural overall to me. Spacing in the game is great visually, but because I don't see a lot of dribble breakdowns forcing rotations I don't feel it really matters.

What do you guys think?

[Gorilla Glass]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I think it's definitely ratings based.

There's a big difference going from using Nash to that of Wall. Obviously Wall seems more responsive than most guys, but it's 'real life' based.

I think EA should be careful with the responsiveness of the game. If every guy is able to stop on a dime, then it'll be considered to 'arcade.'

Personally I think EA should tune and delay shot release or animation; something, because it doesn't feel right.

[El_Poopador]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I do feel that the controls are pretty responsive, especially compared to last year. One thing I agree with is that dribble moves while moving give you an unwanted speed burst at times. You can't do a slow walking crossover, for example, because it forces you to start running.

[SageInfinite]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I only played the demo so far, but I don't get it myself. The game doesn't feel good at all to me, neither did 14.

[sroz39]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

The controls are definitely more responsive than Live 14...but nowhere near the level of Live 10. For Live 16, if they can just get this series back to that level of control and control options, I'll be a very happy guy. I generally am already but miss the player-specific plays and simple things like the difference in the sizeup dribble.

In Live 10 it was a great little feature, with a little bit of a risk/reward element to it. In Live 15, the sizeup dribble takes you into the defender, forcing you to either pickup your dribble or back away and start again.

I agree with the unnatural feel to the half court game in Live 15. In 2K15, I hate the things you have to do on the controller to get by people but when you do pull it off, I love how it works. You're not blowing by anyone, they're just slightly trailing you and trying to seal off a passing lane while the help D steps up and seals off a path to the basket and a different passing lane. There's a terrific drive and kick game in 2K15.

I was hoping Live 15 would take that to another level with simplified controls but it's almost impossible to break anyone down offensively so what you end up taking is a lot of shots in the post you normally wouldn't (and don't see in today's NBA as much to begin with) or a long range J that's almost always contested. I think with a couple of patches this could be an 8 or so out of 10. Right now, it's a little limited what you can do offensively.

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[The 24th Letter]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

Very well put sroz, I agree on all points...and especially with your last paragraph.

I want all this 'spacing' we have to mean something.

[swac07]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I agree the responsiveness dribbling wise is lagging in some inputs with the right stick and some dont register ..I've also noticed during rebounds theres a slight lag sometimes when you press Y ..

I've noticed breaking a player down one on one is iffy especially when trying to create space during the triple threat position using the jab step..the defender doesnt really move back in some cases to give you decent "spacing" when you do it ..I know the defender isnt suppose to fall for the move 100 percent of the time...but sometimes he justs stands there which is odd




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[magicman32]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I agree with the op. I just think a lot people are using "responsive" as meaning "easier" or arcadey. I didn't think the game was super responsive at all. And there's a lot of suction making u loose control of your player. But the controls are simple and the contact in the paint isn't there. It's also easy to steal. The game plays bad. The animations are bad. But it could be fun for casuals cuz it's easy to just pickup and play. (Arcadey). Overall it's better than 14


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[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

To me you lose all responsiveness if the defender gets close to you. Then it becomes like you are stuck to the defender like 2 magnets.

[Basketball Nate]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

When I break a defender down off the dribble in the beginning of games I pull up for mid-range shots instead of trying to take it straight to the rack. As the game progresses and I knock down enough jumpers the CPU coverage starts to get less suffocating then I'm able to take it straight to the rack. Trying to beat the CPU off moving dribbles is really not that effective though because your momentum carries but you can knock him off balance for pull up jumpers with hesi between the leg crosses or signature size ups though.

[da ThRONe]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I like the responsiveness, but I agree the defense reaction(or the space that the defense can recover) is what makes the game feel a little "crowded" in the halfcourt.

[ChrisCP3Paul]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I thought it was common knowledge that the defender AI in 1 on 1 situations is reading your controller input directly, it happens in 2K as well...
I used to have saved replays from 2K14 where the AI defender would literally go the same direction I would fling the analog stick the absolute moment I did it.
It's just the way it is since neither game is based on any real physics and thus momentum, as long as both games use these current animation based engines we will never see real life movements in that sense anyway.

The only way is at times you get lucky with a certain animation and your defender gets fooled, like for example in my vid here I made the very first move I pull with Klay Thompson shaking his guy off, that shhh looks like real life, but it barely happens and it's based on animations interacting with one another and not physics and momentum...
I mean look at the defender, I wish it was "Oh snap, he lost his balance and slipped" but instead it's really, "That's a pretty sweet I got schooled canimation"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/91sKHVVE9gc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



while we're lookin at the video, if someone could let the guys at EA know that not every hand and rim interaction results in a complete shaking of the whole backboard crane as if prime Shaq was throwin down one of his patented rim rattlers

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

I used to play Mortal Kombat on the highest difficulty and felt like the CPU was reading my inputs Always blocking and countering perfectly. so it's common. I read online this was called the mirroring effect Maybe that's what these games use ?

I honestly think defense in both games are mediocre.

[ChrisCP3Paul]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

^ that's pretty much exactly it... this type of "AI" is really more like AC.... Artificial Cheating

I know most advanced gamers know about this, but it should be common knowledge even among casual gamers as well.
And it's done in all games in one way or another, basically it works like this, you increase the difficulty level the AI does not get better smarter, instead it just gets bumped up to next level of cheat mode.
Almost literally all games from sports titles down to for example RPG and strategy games.

For example a strategy game I play Rome Total War 2, that involves massive armies doing battles on the field..
When I play normal difficulty mode, they will rush my army almost without thinking, when I increase it to very hard, they do the same exact thing, but this time their stats are buffed meaning their soldiers get more hitpoints than usual.
It doesn't just kill realism if thats what you're looking for, it just makes the game not fun and tedious to play which is how I feel about both 2k and Live half the time I play them

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 'Control and Responsiveness'

Don't really care about 2k right now...they already have my yearly compilation of issues already. Talking about Live here.

Im aware there going to be some nonsense with one on one defense in basketball video games...we don't have the tech available to completely get rid of it...but the suction/ warping by the defenders in Live are on the rougher side...and it interferes with the flow of half court offense. As mentioned earlier, the drive and lock game suffers because of it...