Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

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  • BQ32
    Pro
    • Jan 2011
    • 671

    #1

    Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

    I have seen people saying that they want to pick this game up for the pro-am and their arcade experience while the other for a sim experience. To me, that is crazy, this game does have too many blocks, and it is a bit too easy to finish in the paint or dunk on fools, but 2 things make this the most authentic basketball experience ever. User control and the phenomenal AI.

    I have played countless play now matches at levels from Pro to Superstar, and this is the truth, this game has the smartest AI of any basketball game ever. They make decisions, try to surprise you, take away the immediate threat, rotate quickly, anticipate passes and drives, hedge properly, switch when they need to, and switch strategies on the fly, even one play to the next if something is not working. It makes for a wonderfully authentic experience and forces you to use your own basketball IQ to succeed giving an advantage not only to players with stick skills, but also players with actual basketball knowledge.

    Here is an example. I love the pick and roll. I focus heavily on it with my college team and feel with a great ballhandler/playmaker, some good shooters, and a big that knows how to open/slip/pop the high screen is almost unstoppable. So I did a test with this demo running strictly the pick and roll for the entire game over several games on allstar and superstar levels to see how the AI would react after it had become evident to me that it was special.
    I ran a pick and pop with Bron and Love, got brick wall screen animation, the other defender switched leaving Love wide open, I passed and he knocked down the open 3. Later in that game I ran the high screen as Kyrie but again with love and got another brick wall animation. This time the player shaded off love to sort of show help on Kyrie, but quickly ran back to Love. Now other games would not have adjusted so quickly in the past and it would have been the same event but this game forced me to use my knowledge. So I hesitated for a bit with Kyrie and then when stepped into a completely wide open mid range jumper after forcing the D to commit.
    I ran the high pick with Thomson and will always roll him (obviously) but sometimes with the great user control you can just hold him there to explode to the basket. Scoring off this Pick a couple of times the D then starts to jump/trap/hard hedge the high screen. Seeing this, using my basketball IQ I can than slip Thompson early and get a quick inside score.
    However as good as I am with the high screen AI still stone walled me when I ran it without proper spacing. When running Thompson with the high screen and love still near the paint area, loves defensive player hedged off cutting the pass but also still in proximity to love and not allow for a proper angle for that play. Sometimes the D will jump the screen, or if you are using a poor long range shooter such as rose the D will go under the screen every time daring you to shoot and clogging up the other action. Also they may decide to just switch on the high screen, and seemingly always will if you run a pick and roll against 2 players with similar athletic attributes such as livingston and Iggy. They will switch it every time taking away the disadvantage so it again makes the game authentic forcing you to think about who to run the screen with and the actions you want to take based on how they decide to defend it.
    Because the game is authentic a quick skillful guard will eat up a big on the perimeter and a strong talented player like Lebron will easily get to the paint and finish on smaller guards such as Curry. This allows great strategic matchups and I decided to play just like the cavs in real life when curry was in the game. Run the high screen with Bron and Kyrie, force the switch, and then go to work with lebron in the paint against Curry. When Livingston was in instead of Curry I would run more traditional with a pick and pop for love or a dive for Thomson.

    Some things I have noticed playing as well. When seeing Zaza get cross matched in the break defending Kyrie, when I slowed the ball up him and Curry tried to switch the match up quickly when they got close to each other. Even though I took advantage of the slight opening it was an awesome moment. Again on cross matches during off ball movement I switched with my teamates and off screen back to our preferred matchups very organically. I really have been struck by these incidents of basketball IQ being displayed. Unlike other games from my past the AI actually did a great job matching up in transition and it felt very real when things actually opened up for a quick transition score. The AI also doubles smartly, if there is a switch from a small on onto a big in the paint, or at an clock situation. They also see the plays open up on offense making quick reads and proper passes. It seems the AI also gets smarter on higher difficulty levels instead of just getting cheaper which is something I feel like has never actually happened in a basketball game before.

    I know the other game looks more sim to people on the surface, but when really digging into the game and playing at higher levels, to be successful and the approach needed to win, this becomes easily the most authentic basketball experience to date. The Ai in this game is moving me from a must buy and a purchaser of both games to leaning towards this being the only basketball game I buy this year as it is satisfying what I have really wanted and alleviating my frustrations.
  • oneHova
    Rookie
    • Oct 2014
    • 236

    #2
    Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

    It truly is, to the point where it feels so immersive, that I'm actually in the game making split second decisions. I'm starting to believe that playing the CPU in Live will end up being more satisfying and challenging than Online H2H. Only for the sole purpose of how real to life the Warriors are playing in this demo on any difficulty. I think we'll be in for a real treat once all teams are available to play against, along with LUT this year too!

    Sent from my F3113 using Tapatalk

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    • The 24th Letter
      ERA
      • Oct 2007
      • 39373

      #3
      Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

      Glad you are enjoying yourself...and when that happens, I think some times we tend to see things beyond whats there. I agree with a good bit though, especially on cross match switching, I am impressed with how handles that...

      This AI has a lot more to prove to me before I declare it the best ever. A couple of areas where I would like tp see improvement"

      Less 24 second dribble out, step back possesions when you take away the first option.

      More attention to tendencies- and this could relate more to ratings as well, but seeing Zaza seek out driving opportunities is bothersome..

      Better end of game/clock execution- I havent seen anything as egregious as previous years yet, but they still have the tendency to not recognize the game situations at times.

      Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app
      Last edited by The 24th Letter; 08-12-2017, 05:48 PM.

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      • ForeverVersatile
        Pro
        • Jan 2011
        • 3498

        #4
        Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

        Definitely isn't the best ai when Shaun Livingston is shooting 3s.

        Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app
        PSN: ForeverVersatile
        Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

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        • BQ32
          Pro
          • Jan 2011
          • 671

          #5
          Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

          You guys have some points and I was mainly focusing on the defensive side and off ball AI reactions while imagining how that will translate to H2H. There is a lot of stuff there done much better than any game yet to date. On the other side I play mostly on superstar so if you play on a different difficulty the experience may be a bit different. I can only remember Livingston shooting a 3 a couple of times and that was because it was getting late into the shot clock. I always play off Livingston. When I played off ball to help and left livingston open i still got burnt a couple of times, not because he shot but because he caught and drove quickly for a finish before I could get into position so my experience has been good against him.

          I have experienced some late game AI meltdown though, where they could have slowed the clock down and played the game out with a lead but took quick shots letting me back in. One game they let me back in the game and I tied it up to win in overtime.

          Sometimes your teammate AI when calling for a screen will not make a decision even if they have wide open space to step into and that can be frustrating. Also on the break instead of running to the wings for space they will suddenly cut into a crowded paint.

          Even with these complaints I have, I still believe the AI here is light years better than what I have encountered in any of the games the last couple of years and can't really remember back far enough accurately to know how good the AI was in the PS3 era.

          Comment

          • The 24th Letter
            ERA
            • Oct 2007
            • 39373

            #6
            Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

            I will wait and see how H2H goes....because we know human users will put the upmost stress on transition defense, we will see how it holds up.

            What I havent seen is things like players getting left wide open without reason...so thats a big plus...and rotations have felt good...

            My biggest worry though is that Live doesnt allow snap interaction when the ball is in the air...when it comes to playing human players and football passes, that will be key...

            Ill definitely be testing it out...

            Comment

            • BQ32
              Pro
              • Jan 2011
              • 671

              #7
              Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

              My biggest worry though is that Live doesnt allow snap interaction when the ball is in the air...when it comes to playing human players and football passes, that will be key...

              Ill definitely be testing it out...[/QUOTE]

              I don't know what you mean by this? Long passes don't work very well in this game and are usually intercepted or at least tipped if there is not considerable space between the receiver and a defender. Low skill players like Thompson even just straight throw it away when attempting a difficult pass.

              my biggest concern is the level of delay at certain times when you decide to make a pass with how aware the AI is.

              Comment

              • d23x
                Pro
                • Jun 2010
                • 835

                #8
                Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                Originally posted by ForeverVersatile
                Definitely isn't the best ai when Shaun Livingston is shooting 3s.

                Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app
                Had this issue happen only once. Was a desperation 3 from almost half court, other than that the Warriors are lethal in this game.

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                • kobe2theMAX
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 281

                  #9
                  Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                  EA did a great job with Live 18. Can't wait to play the full game. Still having a blast with the demo ....

                  Comment

                  • xCoachDx
                    MVP
                    • Aug 2015
                    • 1295

                    #10
                    Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                    I'm getting the feeling that the AI SEEMS to be smart due to the simplicity of the offenses. There's not a ton of off ball movement occurring so there isn't much for the AI to keep up with.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                    • Calvenn
                      Pro
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 698

                      #11
                      Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                      The off-ball movement option was omitted from the Live 15 demo but available in the full game and that made a noticeable difference when enabled. Not sure if its integrated or stand alone this year. Perhaps Schwall or WTF can answer that question for the community.

                      Comment

                      • Vinsanity115
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2017
                        • 221

                        #12
                        Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                        It's not perfect, but I actually am being challenged by the computer quite a bit, and not in a 'cheap' way. I don't really get frustrated either, which is refreshing, when I mess up I tend to agree with it almost 100% of the time. When they go on a run it feels pretty earned.

                        Free throw shooting is the BEST I've ever seen it imo. I never disagree with the face I was smothering a guy and they get fouled, or vise versa. It's almost 100% accurate. I love love love that, as I hate in all previous basketball games how obnoxiously often you'd be watching free throws. Yes, they shoot lots in real life, but this is a game, we want to play and have a good pace to it. I think it's really fair.

                        Comment

                        • ForeverVersatile
                          Pro
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 3498

                          #13
                          Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                          Originally posted by d23x
                          Had this issue happen only once. Was a desperation 3 from almost half court, other than that the Warriors are lethal in this game.
                          He shot 2 when I played but them but never tried to shot a mid range or go into the post.

                          Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app
                          PSN: ForeverVersatile
                          Xbox Live: TheBluprint09

                          Comment

                          • carnalnirvana
                            Pro
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 1981

                            #14
                            Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                            the AI is very good so far

                            this is the best GS replication i have seen by an AI they actually pull up for 3 on a fast break that's awesome...

                            the superstars are deadly they can/will beat a user off the dribble

                            madden/fifa should take notes this game attacks you like a human player
                            NOW PLAYING: NBA Live, madden 11,12, battlefield v, F1 2020 and injustice 2 and COD:MW

                            #18 greatest EVA....

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                            • swac07
                              MVP
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 1843

                              #15
                              Re: Let's talk about the AI (it's Awesome)

                              Meh it's hit and miss...at times the A.I is on it then it just has brain farts....I set the game to cpu vs cpu on all-star level to see how the cpu is versus itself and yeaaaah....there were some suspect moments on both sides of the ball that had me like WDF(questionable plays that lead to nothing,no branching out from plays if the player is open which leads to scripted possessions and Def is always pulled back into the play)...it's definitely not there yet imo...

                              But then again maybe klay was trying to take k .love out the game lol

                              Sidenote
                              I really wish the transition game was up to par that would help alot of things I saw as well



                              Sent from my Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator,
                              Last edited by swac07; 08-14-2017, 02:01 AM.
                              "Wisdom is ALWAYS an overmatch for strength"........The Zen Master

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