Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

too bad we want to play good nba now and not month after release

You have to capture patterns. patterns arent/cant be captured in one game. you need to see it over time. 10 games is about where its at as far as tendencies are concerned. otherwise, you will get the usual game where they just create players based on LAST YEARS data. Think about that. you wont be playing good current nba NOW. you will be playing stale old tendencies most of the year until they feel like updating the game and add a few more points to a players ratings based on their own view of what they've seen and stats. not based on professional scouts/statisticians/analysts

This information also tells us things that don’t appear in the box score, such as shots off the dribble or if a player was being guarded - which all influence ratings. One of the goals we have for the future of NBA LIVE is to remove subjectivity from player ratings and performance – a true 1:1 representation of each and every player in the league

https://www.easports.com/nba-live/news/2014/synergy-sports

^^Read the entire article.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

The premise sounds and always has sounded fantastic and should have made Live the industry standard as far as reflecting player tendencies on the court....

The execution has just never gotten there though...

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[Makeufamous NDZ]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

Live 10 had both, and I edited players myself to have the game play the way I wanted to. We need that level of control back. Personally, I think the reason why there's no cap is that they put those elements in The One mode, and it gives us a reason to buy the game every year, instead of hanging onto an old game, and updating the rosters ourselves.

That's one of the reasons why I don't buy madden every year, that and it's other issues lol.

I 100% agree, I also owned NBA Live 10 and yes Synergy and Player Editing was in that game. So it is very hard for me to understand why would EA not include that feature in Live 18. Personally if I had a choice... I'd say dump Synergy and give us back the freedom to edit. You would think it would be a no-brainer to allow the user to edit players and rosters. And for a lot of people it is a deal breaker. I mean to my knowledge 2K doesn't have a system like Synergy and that game has been vastly successful so I don't really see the value in holding on to it.

I bought this game day one and after a month in, my interest in this game is already starting to fade. Don't get me wrong I love what Live 18 has brought to the table, but the reality is to me it seems like an incomplete game.

There has also been a lot of rumors circulating online about them patching in player editing but I seriously doubt that... I mean I really would love if they did, but it's unlikely we get that feature this year.

My honest opinion is that's one of the reasons for the big price cut when you pre-ordered Live. And why we continue to see huge deals on the game like the Best Buy offer this early after release. To me the replay value of this game will be extremely low in the near future, especially if you have to depend solely on EA to adjust rosters. So basically after this season the game becomes useless... The game is definitely not worth $60...

[Nemesis Enforcer]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen a synergy logo or term used when stats update in 18.

If synergy is on and working like how it did in 10 then live 10(online down unfortunately) 14-16 would have current updated rosters. They don't want that.

[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen a synergy logo or term used when stats update in 18.

If synergy is on and working like how it did in 10 then live 10(online down unfortunately) 14-16 would have current updated rosters. They don't want that.

All they have to do is remove the roster update links from one server and put the new server links to match nba live 18's link name. So you could still get tendency updates for the old games for the players that are still there. But no new players creating new rosters.

[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

I 100% agree, I also owned NBA Live 10 and yes Synergy and Player Editing was in that game. So it is very hard for me to understand why would EA not include that feature in Live 18. Personally if I had a choice... I'd say dump Synergy and give us back the freedom to edit. You would think it would be a no-brainer to allow the user to edit players and rosters. And for a lot of people it is a deal breaker. I mean to my knowledge 2K doesn't have a system like Synergy and that game has been vastly successful so I don't really see the value in holding on to it.

I bought this game day one and after a month in, my interest in this game is already starting to fade. Don't get me wrong I love what Live 18 has brought to the table, but the reality is to me it seems like an incomplete game.

There has also been a lot of rumors circulating online about them patching in player editing but I seriously doubt that... I mean I really would love if they did, but it's unlikely we get that feature this year.

My honest opinion is that's one of the reasons for the big price cut when you pre-ordered Live. And why we continue to see huge deals on the game like the Best Buy offer this early after release. To me the replay value of this game will be extremely low in the near future, especially if you have to depend solely on EA to adjust rosters. So basically after this season the game becomes useless... The game is definitely not worth $60...

here's the thing. lets say for fun that the synergy stuff is perfectly linked to nba live 18 like its supposed to be and lets say for fun, all players and teams play like their respective real life counterparts.

Why would you need to update the roster if the above is true? You wouldnt. Not if you want to play a realistic game of nba basketball. now if you want to play your version of the real thing. Then sure you want to do edits. But the editing was originally only there and useful because these game devs were not depicting certain guys properly. They gave too much love to some guys and not enough love to others. now if the above is true about synergy. there is no love or hate. its just numbers. this is what the numbers are showing us. this is how player A or B plays. There is no wiggle room in that. If Kyrie goes left and pulls up for a jumper 80% of the time for a make. Then if you go hard left and pull up from the same spots and lets say you have the shot settings set to Player ratings. Well you will end up hitting approx 80% of those shots assuming all other things are the same in those scenarios as were in the real life games that synergy recorded and analysed. Thats called Realistic basketball.

The moment you try to touch that and edit that. Then you're saying you dont like realism. You want him to play like you want him to play realistic or not.
Remember if synergy works correctly. EA isnt creating players based on what they think they should be. they are doing it based on the real life scouting reports.

[vtcrb]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

The premise sounds and always has sounded fantastic and should have made Live the industry standard as far as reflecting player tendencies on the court....

The execution has just never gotten there though...

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As I have always said a computer can never replicate real life NBA perfectly if the coding isn't perfect. And NOTHING is ever perfect and that is why their is need fo the human element of editing. If not for editing the other game would be useless to me as well.

[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

As I have always said a computer can never replicate real life NBA perfectly if the coding isn't perfect. And NOTHING is ever perfect and that is why their is need fo the human element of editing. If not for editing the other game would be useless to me as well.

but you guys are still missing the point. They pay tons of money to setup stuff like this and yes they still have people on a team that deals with the synergy data then translates it to nba live. Do they need to fix some stuff to make it work better? Of course they do. But that doesnt mean give up and give all the control back to the user: who has not spent who knows how much time and money on things like this. anyone editing rosters are 9 times out of 10 going with the eye test and very rarely do you see these guys using a ton of data to create these players or edit them. Sure some may use box scores or fg%'s. but thats it. I have not heard of her met a single live or 2k roster editer that was pulling scouting data. You actually can't do that without having an account for one of these scouting websites. and most if not all of them are paid accounts.

So this makes for another problem.what you think you see, may not be the case in reality. especially once I pull those numbers from the scouting reports.

the other issue is, even if everything was perfectly programmed. Most people would not realize it because they would not notice that when lebron goes left he keeps pulling up for a mid range jumper like he was doing for the past 10 games in real life. and when he goes right. he goes all the way to the rack. You would only notice it, if you check the tendencies and the stats. if this thing actually works as advertised you would never notice the little things like that unless you have a keen eye for stuff like that. most people do not. so they would swear it isnt working when in reality it is.

[vtcrb]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

but you guys are still missing the point. They pay tons of money to setup stuff like this and yes they still have people on a team that deals with the synergy data then translates it to nba live. Do they need to fix some stuff to make it work better? Of course they do. But that doesnt mean give up and give all the control back to the user: who has not spent who knows how much time and money on things like this. anyone editing rosters are 9 times out of 10 going with the eye test and very rarely do you see these guys using a ton of data to create these players or edit them. Sure some may use box scores or fg%'s. but thats it. I have not heard of her met a single live or 2k roster editer that was pulling scouting data. You actually can't do that without having an account for one of these scouting websites. and most if not all of them are paid accounts.

So this makes for another problem.what you think you see, may not be the case in reality. especially once I pull those numbers from the scouting reports.

the other issue is, even if everything was perfectly programmed. Most people would not realize it because they would not notice that when lebron goes left he keeps pulling up for a mid range jumper like he was doing for the past 10 games in real life. and when he goes right. he goes all the way to the rack. You would only notice it, if you check the tendencies and the stats. if this thing actually works as advertised you would never notice the little things like that unless you have a keen eye for stuff like that. most people do not. so they would swear it isnt working when in reality it is.

I have to laugh because it is obvious, You must not know many of the hard core editors. We watch film, and yes you can get data Without having to pay for it. It is pretty simple, keep Synergy and don't allow editing and watch sales keep declining. If you can't make a simple player transaction the game is a Play Now game with no long term replay value outside of the Street ball modes.

[sarlndr]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

It is pretty simple, keep Synergy and don't allow editing and watch sales keep declining. If you can't make a simple player transaction the game is a Play Now game with no long term replay value outside of the Street ball modes.

Amen.


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[seanhazz1]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

I recommend anyone unsure of Synergy to visit the site. Asking here will bring out hate from the roster editing guys. Personally I think Synergy execution could be working fine, but who in the OS community knows? They don’t test or compare that, choosing to instead tout prowess in being the better option for rosters. What doesn’t work is that some prefer to edit players themselves and drown out synergy’s realism effort and analysis for that specific fantasy cause, offering no real feedback on it, instead downing it at every opportunity, unlike editing requests or roster accuracy requests. When did headbands , tattoos and kicks become more important than real in-game numbers to drive ratings and tendencies on the court?? They may not update as quickly but they update. I play with the 76ers, and they seem to play in character, to what I have seen from them so far in 4 real NBA games, as do their opponents, the good and the bad. It should only get more accurate with more NBA games played. I am for editing an not trying to knock roster guys, but they (EA) have more resources than we do for creating correct rosters and tendencies, with the goal of players playing like you see them on Tv not Unrealistically edited in bias as the other is many times. I am trusting them to add in editing safely at some point, but it’s not a deal breaker for me as it is for some, as I’ll still support to get the product we all want eventually with editing eventually included. We asked for realism they gave us real data. I prefer regular updates from EA vs waiting for a group of community members to create 5-10 different roster sets, with less frequency, that make the game a new sandbox experience every time you use one. What is the attribute rating standard community roster makers are using? What constitutes a STR or SPD attribute. Are we just ping to rate them similar to 2k?? It’s Not the same game or code. Synergy is more than an eye test and box score.. for those that don’t know just visit the site.... and decide if you could compile better data to use as quickly and accurately. A Synergy stat is mentioned in every live broadcast. They have a tough job to put user roster editing in without the game breaking bugs showing up from users posting about a half effort. Let them finish the vision, Support it, then tweak away when they give it to us.


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[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

I recommend anyone unsure of Synergy to visit the site. Asking here will bring out hate from the roster editing guys. Personally I think Synergy execution could be working fine, but who in the OS community knows? They don’t test or compare that, choosing to instead tout prowess in being the better option for rosters. What doesn’t work is that some prefer to edit players themselves and drown out synergy’s realism effort and analysis for that specific fantasy cause, offering no real feedback on it, instead downing it at every opportunity, unlike editing requests or roster accuracy requests. When did headbands , tattoos and kicks become more important than real in-game numbers to drive ratings and tendencies on the court?? They may not update as quickly but they update. I play with the 76ers, and they seem to play in character, to what I have seen from them so far in 4 real NBA games, as do their opponents, the good and the bad. It should only get more accurate with more NBA games played. I am for editing an not trying to knock roster guys, but they (EA) have more resources than we do for creating correct rosters and tendencies, with the goal of players playing like you see them on Tv not Unrealistically edited in bias as the other is many times. I am trusting them to add in editing safely at some point, but it’s not a deal breaker for me as it is for some, as I’ll still support to get the product we all want eventually with editing eventually included. We asked for realism they gave us real data. I prefer regular updates from EA vs waiting for a group of community members to create 5-10 different roster sets, with less frequency, that make the game a new sandbox experience every time you use one. What is the attribute rating standard community roster makers are using? What constitutes a STR or SPD attribute. Are we just ping to rate them similar to 2k?? It’s Not the same game or code. Synergy is more than an eye test and box score.. for those that don’t know just visit the site.... and decide if you could compile better data to use as quickly and accurately. A Synergy stat is mentioned in every live broadcast. They have a tough job to put user roster editing in without the game breaking bugs showing up from users posting about a half effort. Let them finish the vision, Support it, then tweak away when they give it to us.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

^^I've been trying to tell them this but they just wont listen. People are stuck in their ways. "I want roster editing" with tattoos and headbands and stuff.

"This guy doesnt play like the real nba version of himself. I want to edit the guy to play like I want him to play or how i think he should play."

thats all fine and dandy. but like the above poster said. after you've created your rosters do we get to do a comparison to see if your created players actually do play like the real life nba guys? Can we not just do an eye test comparison but lets also do a data test comparison.

Here's a couple of other issues with players. There are two types of players. CPU controlled and Human Controlled.

Assuming the devs wrote the code properly. The more accurate the data the more realistic said players tendencies are if you are using real scouting data. if the code is written incorrectly. then you may need to edit the guy to play like the real version since the actual programming is off.(that may be the case in live. but we dont know that yet. no tests have been done.)

A test would be like this:

pit two CPU controlled teams vs each other. Then scout them. Then check the synergy or some other websites scouting reports of these two teams. Make sure the two teams you pit against one another have played each other within the last few days. So you can pull up the original game on your personal DVR, pull up the stats, pull up the scouting reports(which will show tendencies, who drove hard left after the pick, who went under the screens, etc.)

Then test #2:
CPU team vs Human controlled team: Watch all cpu controlled players on both teams. are they moving like they did when they played each other in real life? are they running those same plays close to as often as they did in real life?

Mind you. you are controller some of the players at certain times. so unless you're running plays most of the times are you truly play exactly how that team plays and each individual player plays when you switch on to him. You wont know for sure if the guy plays like he is supposed to play. You're freestyling trying to say its not real. well in reality that guy doesnt freestyle it as much as you do on the game. so who knows what would happen if the spurs just ran heavy pick and rolls and didnt run their actual offense all the time. you get the point?

Lastly, test #3:
Player Lock. You choose a star player, and attempt to play like him. while going up against a team he has recently played. See how the other team defends you. is it similar to how they would defend that guy in real life based on the game that was recently played?

[splashmountain]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

I have to laugh because it is obvious, You must not know many of the hard core editors. We watch film, and yes you can get data Without having to pay for it. It is pretty simple, keep Synergy and don't allow editing and watch sales keep declining. If you can't make a simple player transaction the game is a Play Now game with no long term replay value outside of the Street ball modes.

I've downloaded a many of big named roster and I loved them. dont get me wrong. I'm not saying the guys arent good. I'm saying how do we know how accurate they are to real life without testing it out? we dont. we have never done a true comparison. no one has. at least no one that has put it out there and broke it down to us via video evidence stats and actual scouting reports. NOT just box scores and a few more stats from some of the analyst websites. you need actual synergy like scouting reports. to know which directions guys are going in, depending on the defense that they see. all this stuff has to be in there.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

You guys are essentially asking that folks champion the idea of Synergy, instead of evaluating its results....

We don't even get a visual of the Dynamic DNA changes like we got in past Lives...we are really in the dark as to whats actually happening.

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[Nemesis Enforcer]

Re: Can someone explain what exactly Synergy is doing for Live?

Offline single player franchise is just not the focus of live or many games in general anymore. They need a good online franchise, best of 7, play friends online, street 5vs5 4 quarters before roster editing.

Either way none of that fixes the biggest gameplay issue for me which is getting away from the physics they had and going to a lot of 2 man animations.

And if noshun would just state his superior knowledge of synergy and prove he's not a troll I will leave these boards forever. A mask reply won't do it...