We desperately need consistency sliders

[Cavs2016]

The cold and hot runs in this game are making a mockery of the sim experience.

Playing on superstar, when the heat levels are level on both sides, the game plays so beautifully and true to player ratings. You’ll see this in 5 on 5 scrimmage.

But once the hot/cold runs set in, it makes you want to throw your controller though the TV.

The CPU will score on 10 straight possessions, with nothing you can do to stop them. Player ratings go out the window. And if you force a miss by the grace of God, they get an offensive rebound EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

On the flip side, your team will become a high school JV team. Back-rimming layups, bricking every jumpshot... it’s pretty much impossible to score other than a pnR dunk.

Kevin Love two handed chase downs.
Kevin Love soaring Tomahawk outback dunks from the FT line.

Jae Crowder step back fadeaway backflip 3s contested at the end of the shot clock... swish.

It becomes an arcade-y cheese fest.

And it’s not just “oh I can’t beat the CPU”

I can 40-50 piece the CPU way too often on superstar, even with scoring sliders turned down. Taking advantage of the hot/cold cheese.

It takes a good 52-48 half time match and turns it into a 144-98 match way too frequently.

Is it fun? Not for me. I want sim. Some people enjoy the runs and excitement, and calling timeouts to halt momentum. It’s their cup of tea and I understand.

But I’m not seeing this hot/cold stuff in the scrimmage mode.

I feel like there’s a diamond of a sim game behind this run cheese. I see glimpses of it. But I really wanna dig that out.

Is there anyway we can get sliders/or turn it off?

It’s gamebreaking to me.

[CujoMatty]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

The cold and hot runs in this game are making a mockery of the sim experience.

Playing on superstar, when the heat levels are level on both sides, the game plays so beautifully and true to player ratings. You’ll see this in 5 on 5 scrimmage.

But once the hot/cold runs set in, it makes you want to throw your controller though the TV.

The CPU will score on 10 straight possessions, with nothing you can do to stop them. Player ratings go out the window. And if you force a miss by the grace of God, they get an offensive rebound EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

On the flip side, your team will become a high school JV team. Back-rimming layups, bricking every jumpshot... it’s pretty much impossible to score other than a pnR dunk.

Kevin Love two handed chase downs.
Kevin Love soaring Tomahawk outback dunks from the FT line.

Jae Crowder step back fadeaway backflip 3s contested at the end of the shot clock... swish.

It becomes an arcade-y cheese fest.

And it’s not just “oh I can’t beat the CPU”

I can 40-50 piece the CPU way too often on superstar, even with scoring sliders turned down. Taking advantage of the hot/cold cheese.

It takes a good 52-48 half time match and turns it into a 144-98 match way too frequently.

Is it fun? Not for me. I want sim. Some people enjoy the runs and excitement, and calling timeouts to halt momentum. It’s their cup of tea and I understand.

But I’m not seeing this hot/cold stuff in the scrimmage mode.

I feel like there’s a diamond of a sim game behind this run cheese. I see glimpses of it. But I really wanna dig that out.

Is there anyway we can get sliders/or turn it off?

It’s gamebreaking to me.

I’m one of the people that really enjoy the hot and cold aspects and the momentum. That being said everything you said isn’t wrong.

The game kicks you when your down and just when you think it can’t get worse it stands on your neck.

Even though I like it I can totally see how that will turn a lot of people away from this game.

A consistency slider is a great idea.

[GisherJohn24]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

The cold and hot runs in this game are making a mockery of the sim experience.

Playing on superstar, when the heat levels are level on both sides, the game plays so beautifully and true to player ratings. You’ll see this in 5 on 5 scrimmage.

But once the hot/cold runs set in, it makes you want to throw your controller though the TV.

The CPU will score on 10 straight possessions, with nothing you can do to stop them. Player ratings go out the window. And if you force a miss by the grace of God, they get an offensive rebound EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

On the flip side, your team will become a high school JV team. Back-rimming layups, bricking every jumpshot... it’s pretty much impossible to score other than a pnR dunk.

Kevin Love two handed chase downs.
Kevin Love soaring Tomahawk outback dunks from the FT line.

Jae Crowder step back fadeaway backflip 3s contested at the end of the shot clock... swish.

It becomes an arcade-y cheese fest.

And it’s not just “oh I can’t beat the CPU”

I can 40-50 piece the CPU way too often on superstar, even with scoring sliders turned down. Taking advantage of the hot/cold cheese.

It takes a good 52-48 half time match and turns it into a 144-98 match way too frequently.

Is it fun? Not for me. I want sim. Some people enjoy the runs and excitement, and calling timeouts to halt momentum. It’s their cup of tea and I understand.

But I’m not seeing this hot/cold stuff in the scrimmage mode.

I feel like there’s a diamond of a sim game behind this run cheese. I see glimpses of it. But I really wanna dig that out.

Is there anyway we can get sliders/or turn it off?

It’s gamebreaking to me.

Even a momentum meter !

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[El_Poopador]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

Do they continue their run after calling a timeout? I realize it is more exaggerated than it should be, but basketball is a game of momentum.

I do agree that things like Crowder hitting a fadeaway three shouldn't be the norm, but personally, I haven't seen something like that yet.

Maybe post some videos next time you see it happening to better demonstrate how bad it is?

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

I’m one of the people that really enjoy the hot and cold aspects and the momentum. That being said everything you said isn’t wrong.

The game kicks you when your down and just when you think it can’t get worse it stands on your neck.

Even though I like it I can totally see how that will turn a lot of people away from this game.

A consistency slider is a great idea.

Yeah, but it drives me nuts that people that purport to want the game to be sim to want this. What he describes is actually how games play out in real life. Swings are the norm.

If I was a dev team, the last thing I would listen to is the words of gamers. I would much prefer they take the telemetry data they acquire to run against real life data. Gamers are terrible sources for this stuff. They are as terrible as any sports fans.

Take last night’s football game. If that happens in Madden, gamers would rage, and Bears fans are definitely reeling. But that’s how sports games should make us feel if they are realistic. But time and time again you sim gamers misunderstanding how stats accumulate, which is randomly, even if there is a trend. They want to see the correct %’s on a game by game basis, and that is not how sports work.

[ILLSmak]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

Yea I dunno. I like the runs. Generally if I'm playing for real I don't lose by a lot. I can lose by 20 sometimes. I've lost 100-51 on all star in the one (speaking from one perspective, I don't think it's different other than default sliders) the game I was just like I'm going at Joel embiid every single time.



I think the momentum is related to how you play. Success matters like, missing a shot or a few good shots and you go cold, you Can stay cold for a long time. But I find the momentum has a lot to do with like trying to force it. If you try to force it out and get stopped they will just punish you. I've never beat the cpu by 40 but with my wing defender switched on the pg, I can win a lot. It almost feels cheesy.


There are runs, people make bad shots. The computer decides who gets hot and you have to adjust. I do agree there is a beautiful Sim game in there somewhere but it's not there yet. A consistency slider imo won't fix it because you will just smash the cpu. Without their unstoppable runs I don't think I'd ever lose. They are stoppable but you have to play perfect. Works with a wing defender cuz you can switch to the chosen guy and slow him down. A new guy will emerge but it'll slow down momentum so that you can stay in the game. I find most of my superstar games come down to the wire. Like I said unless I decide I'm gonna try to grind some traits or just farm some exp. If I play like I would in a real ball game, the only thing the cpu ever does that annoys me is stealing passes that there's no way they should steal, but as I said in another thread, without that, you could just throw lasers for lay ups every time.



I don't disagree that the runs are garbage. I don't disagree that the game isn't Sim as is, however, it is good competition if you don't exploit the cpu like you said either with pick and rolls or by stone walling the pg so he has to throw a long pass that your guys will probably steal.


The cpu is supposed to do garbage things on the highest difficulty. Just like in command and conquer back n the day you'd scout their base and be like man they already got that many buildings/units??? But I like that it's hard and the shots they make don't seem so cheesy because those are the shots they shoot. You know what I mean? The Ai is not really refined. It will never be refined enough to match wits with a smart user but the step back is the live shot. Haha. Without being able to get those step backs off that go in without perfect contests, they would not be a threat on superstar. How else can they score? Seems like most is off of that or cuts or moves they get off when you are overplaying trying to stop their hot hand guy.



But Yea Def needs more work. Better Ai, more shots that the cpu can shoot and make other than the step back. More iso set ups that they can make quick moves and score. That's really tough to program, like in 2k they make garbage scripted shots, too. If they miss every time you contest them well, you'll be smashing the cpu every time. I feel like they get optimal releases, you need a "impacted shot" to make them miss.



-Smak

[ILLSmak]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

Yeah, but it drives me nuts that people that purport to want the game to be sim to want this. What he describes is actually how games play out in real life. Swings are the norm.

If I was a dev team, the last thing I would listen to is the words of gamers. I would much prefer they take the telemetry data they acquire to run against real life data. Gamers are terrible sources for this stuff. They are as terrible as any sports fans.

Take last night’s football game. If that happens in Madden, gamers would rage, and Bears fans are definitely reeling. But that’s how sports games should make us feel if they are realistic. But time and time again you sim gamers misunderstanding how stats accumulate, which is randomly, even if there is a trend. They want to see the correct %’s on a game by game basis, and that is not how sports work.

Double post:



Usually agree with you, but you gotta listen to gamers. Gamers know the game better than devs, easy, but there are a lot of voices that are emo and don't really understand the game. You gotta pick thru. As a Dev you should be able to know who raises legit issues and they will find them when you would not. It's like you develop a chainsaw and some guy is like I'm trying to cut a car and you're like OK delete. But then someone explains how they were trying to do a certain type of logging (lol I know **** all about chainsaws or trees, kinda screwed myself here, but bear with me) and I encountered this issue. If the designer knows his product he should be able to envision exactly what the guy means and whether his suggestions is sound.



Then re: runs. Sure runs happen. And they aren't scripted (not that scripted, the cpu starts runs that could be defined as scripted), but if they are too hard to break then that's a game play issue. You can be on a run and one play can change everything. You have to let that happen.



For example, dudes don't like to hear about 2k but it's my experience w online gaming as well as live. We played this team and our pg was getting absolutely roasted. I had a big. The pg was abusing a mechanic and it was really getting in our pgs head. I decided, I'm gonna block this guy's shot. I slowly started tightening it, contesting too late, he didn't take me seriously, and I blocked him. I blocked him viciously. Like he was in dance mode and you could tell it changed his play style. He was still a good player, or decent so my looming gave up some lay ups from my man. But we won. Maybe it wasn't all me, probably wasn't. But that play was a huge momentum changer. If you can't snatch momentum back like that with a crazy play, the runs are imbalanced



-Smak

[DonWuan]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

I think the issue is losing control. Doesnt naturally happen and it feels like a switch was flipped. Understand it is a video game and blah blah blah.

[Cavs2016]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

I’ve bumped down to all star and altered sliders to increase difficulty.

I’m getting a pretty sim, pretty fair experience.

The hot-cold run feature is still implemented but it feels much, much more subtle, yet realistic. Feels way more natural and less cheesy.

Lost my first game 120-134. (47% to 55%). Fantasy draft franchise game. LeBron 49 points on 57% shooting. Couldn’t stop him. Had a lot of rookies tho. My team was overmatched but I played the best to my abilities. Made a run to make it close late in the third, but then they pulled away. I feel like if they didn’t have LeBron I would have won.

Overall a very enjoyable basketball experience that felt sim and challenging.

[ILLSmak]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

I’ve bumped down to all star and altered sliders to increase difficulty.

I’m getting a pretty sim, pretty fair experience.

The hot-cold run feature is still implemented but it feels much, much more subtle, yet realistic. Feels way more natural and less cheesy.

Lost my first game 120-134. (47% to 55%). Fantasy draft franchise game. LeBron 49 points on 57% shooting. Couldn’t stop him. Had a lot of rookies tho. My team was overmatched but I played the best to my abilities. Made a run to make it close late in the third, but then they pulled away. I feel like if they didn’t have LeBron I would have won.

Overall a very enjoyable basketball experience that felt sim and challenging.

My 2c is it seems you push it really hard and that's accentuating the strength and impact of momentum. Just going by your score. I'm loving vs the cpu too. Just staying away from stuff they can't handle. I pnr sometimes and sometimes when a guy gets hot I hold circle to double him. Double team iq is really good in this gm so they rotate well. It works the other way too when you get doubled you gotta have an out fast





-Smak

[ILLSmak]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

Double post again, not to mention I'm da one vs u in franchise I assume, but with a locked player I'm on the sun's and have ariza and Jackson who actually go on defensive runs with steals and start momentum for me. That's a great feeling and adds to the Sim nature of it.



Imo the hot cold isn't overly forced (it's related to the game happenings) but it is near impossible to play thru it. You will blow lay ups. You just gotta ride it out I guess.



-Smak

[FunkDockta27]

Re: We desperately need consistency sliders

Yea I dunno. I like the runs. Generally if I'm playing for real I don't lose by a lot. I can lose by 20 sometimes. I've lost 100-51 on all star in the one (speaking from one perspective, I don't think it's different other than default sliders) the game I was just like I'm going at Joel embiid every single time.



I think the momentum is related to how you play. Success matters like, missing a shot or a few good shots and you go cold, you Can stay cold for a long time. But I find the momentum has a lot to do with like trying to force it. If you try to force it out and get stopped they will just punish you. I've never beat the cpu by 40 but with my wing defender switched on the pg, I can win a lot. It almost feels cheesy.


There are runs, people make bad shots. The computer decides who gets hot and you have to adjust. I do agree there is a beautiful Sim game in there somewhere but it's not there yet. A consistency slider imo won't fix it because you will just smash the cpu. Without their unstoppable runs I don't think I'd ever lose. They are stoppable but you have to play perfect. Works with a wing defender cuz you can switch to the chosen guy and slow him down. A new guy will emerge but it'll slow down momentum so that you can stay in the game. I find most of my superstar games come down to the wire. Like I said unless I decide I'm gonna try to grind some traits or just farm some exp. If I play like I would in a real ball game, the only thing the cpu ever does that annoys me is stealing passes that there's no way they should steal, but as I said in another thread, without that, you could just throw lasers for lay ups every time.



I don't disagree that the runs are garbage. I don't disagree that the game isn't Sim as is, however, it is good competition if you don't exploit the cpu like you said either with pick and rolls or by stone walling the pg so he has to throw a long pass that your guys will probably steal.


The cpu is supposed to do garbage things on the highest difficulty. Just like in command and conquer back n the day you'd scout their base and be like man they already got that many buildings/units??? But I like that it's hard and the shots they make don't seem so cheesy because those are the shots they shoot. You know what I mean? The Ai is not really refined. It will never be refined enough to match wits with a smart user but the step back is the live shot. Haha. Without being able to get those step backs off that go in without perfect contests, they would not be a threat on superstar. How else can they score? Seems like most is off of that or cuts or moves they get off when you are overplaying trying to stop their hot hand guy.



But Yea Def needs more work. Better Ai, more shots that the cpu can shoot and make other than the step back. More iso set ups that they can make quick moves and score. That's really tough to program, like in 2k they make garbage scripted shots, too. If they miss every time you contest them well, you'll be smashing the cpu every time. I feel like they get optimal releases, you need a "impacted shot" to make them miss.



-Smak

Yeah, I haven't ran into Hot Embiid yet, with my crapalong cavs franchise. But I did get bulldozed by Jimmy Butler. Could. Not. Stop. Once I went Star Focus (cuz I was tired of Jimmy Jam, he just kicked it to KAT vs Kevin "I" Love "Playing Defense". Turned into All Star Level Massacre.

I still blame myself for allowing him to get hot. Lol. Then it was lights out, go home. 4th qtr I played bench guys I was down by 20+. Like my mans Mangok Manthiang (idk who the guy is even but with a bangin name like that who wouldnt want him as a FA?)


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