I'm not suprised ...

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  • ludacris06
    Banned
    • Sep 2003
    • 1527

    #1

    I'm not suprised ...

    Top 10 things that need to change in sports

    NBA Live 2005 has 6 out of the ten things this guy has mentioned.



    10) Slider Settings

    The problem is that many of these slider settings are not fully explained anywhere in the game, leaving you to only guess as to their definitions and, more importantly, how they can affect your game.

    The solution here is simple: documentation. These days, most manuals for sports games are pretty thin, at best, and laughable, at worst.
    Also, when playing this game online there are a TON of things are aren't explained in the instruction booklet leaving you to read the FAQ posted that also doesn't touch on much, leaving you to guess.



    7) Smarts, Not Speed


    What we should expect from higher difficulty levels are smarter plays, more chances taken to make big plays, and an aggressive attitude on both sides of the ball. Instead, we are penalized with things like unrealistically poor fatigue settings or player performance handicaps that seriously undercut the "fun factor."
    When playing on higher levels of difficulty in NBA Live 2005, it is near impossible to get around your defenders without trying to freestyle or post up on them. You have to tweak the sliders so much that it's not even fun anymore. There isn't an increase in the A.I, whatsoever.



    6) Cheese-Free Zone

    If there's one negative, ancillary effect to be found in the rise of online gaming over the past two or three years, it's the prevalence of questionable tactics in sports games, typically known by the colloquial name "cheese." Not exactly cheating, though the two often cross-mingle, cheesing implies strategic choices that are either entirely unbalanced
    Since there isn't any fatigue in ranked games (and with the F****ED up ratings this game has) online players will do the UNREAL just to get a win. Almost everything you can and cannot think of can be done online with this game. Running around in circles to get open, running around with Shaq at sonic speed, 3 pt bombing, it's not even cool. You should only play against people you know or just don't play ranked games at all.


    4) Catch-Up AI: A Necessary Evil?
    EA Sports has to have some of the laziest developers on the face of this earth. Instead of making the A.I. challenging, they take the easy way out and decide to cheat.



    ^^^ Read that.

    1) Fix Your Ratings


    All the EA sports games I have played have inaccurate ratings. They are soo inaccurate that it makes you wonder how the guy who does them is still working. When I first popped in NBA Live 2005, I already knew something was wrong when the Hornets were better than the Spurs.



    2) Sim Away!


    Problems creep in, though, with the seemingly random outcomes of so many of these simulated games. It's hard to put together any kind of streak (either winning or losing) when simulating games, because so often the outcomes of these games feel more like the results of random chance rather than truly simulated matchups.
  • SonicMage
    NBA Ratings Wizard
    • Oct 2002
    • 3544

    #2
    Re: I'm not suprised ...

    Originally posted by ludacris06
    EA Sports has to have some of the laziest developers on the face of this earth. Instead of making the A.I. challenging, they take the easy way out and decide to cheat.
    I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.

    As far as A.I. cheating...thats what AI does in almost every single video game, no matter what genre. We don't have the hardware to be able to support anything close to what can be considered human-like AI at the moment.


    All the EA sports games I have played have inaccurate ratings. They are soo inaccurate that it makes you wonder how the guy who does them is still working. When I first popped in NBA Live 2005, I already knew something was wrong when the Hornets were better than the Spurs.
    I'll agree with you here. And thats why I have worked to fix it. So far, I've been able to create formulas from player stats for 12 out of the 20 ratings there are, and let me tell you, these new ratings are fantastic. I wish I had the time to update all the rosters and add some historical teams using these formulas but unfortunately, I don't.
    NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

    Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
    Link to Ratings 1996-2017
    Link to Ratings 1973-1996
    Link to Ratings All-time

    Discussion found here

    Comment

    • SonicMage
      NBA Ratings Wizard
      • Oct 2002
      • 3544

      #3
      Re: I'm not suprised ...

      Originally posted by ludacris06
      EA Sports has to have some of the laziest developers on the face of this earth. Instead of making the A.I. challenging, they take the easy way out and decide to cheat.
      I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.

      As far as A.I. cheating...thats what AI does in almost every single video game, no matter what genre. We don't have the hardware to be able to support anything close to what can be considered human-like AI at the moment.


      All the EA sports games I have played have inaccurate ratings. They are soo inaccurate that it makes you wonder how the guy who does them is still working. When I first popped in NBA Live 2005, I already knew something was wrong when the Hornets were better than the Spurs.
      I'll agree with you here. And thats why I have worked to fix it. So far, I've been able to create formulas from player stats for 12 out of the 20 ratings there are, and let me tell you, these new ratings are fantastic. I wish I had the time to update all the rosters and add some historical teams using these formulas but unfortunately, I don't.
      NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

      Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
      Link to Ratings 1996-2017
      Link to Ratings 1973-1996
      Link to Ratings All-time

      Discussion found here

      Comment

      • Court_vision
        Banned
        • Oct 2002
        • 8290

        #4
        Re: I'm not suprised ...

        Originally posted by Sonicmage
        I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.
        Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

        I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.

        No play sets and no fast breaks...but all star weekends + dunks.

        That right there confirms the games market. Casual fans are roped in by stuff like dunk competitions.

        Sales are all that matters...but hey, who can blame them for that. That's a business mantra everywhere.

        Comment

        • Court_vision
          Banned
          • Oct 2002
          • 8290

          #5
          Re: I'm not suprised ...

          Originally posted by Sonicmage
          I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.
          Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

          I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.

          No play sets and no fast breaks...but all star weekends + dunks.

          That right there confirms the games market. Casual fans are roped in by stuff like dunk competitions.

          Sales are all that matters...but hey, who can blame them for that. That's a business mantra everywhere.

          Comment

          • KBomber
            Pro
            • Nov 2003
            • 512

            #6
            Re: I'm not suprised ...

            Originally posted by monkey
            Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

            I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.

            No play sets and no fast breaks...but all star weekends + dunks.

            That right there confirms the games market. Casual fans are roped in by stuff like dunk competitions.

            Sales are all that matters...but hey, who can blame them for that. That's a business mantra everywhere.
            Just when I think that Monkey has dropped off the face of the earth, he always drops in to make a great post like this. I think the one thing that EA has always done well in all their games is finding those singular elements that the unwashed masses really like and building core gameplay elements around them. You see that in all their games, whether it's the inclusion of the ASG, Dunk Contests and nifty animations in Live, the Hit Stick and long ball in Madden or the brutal hits in NHL 2005, the flash of the sports are always there, it's generally the fulfilling substance that's gone missing

            I tend to like EA games when I want to play something that isn't going to challenge me too much. When I'm looking to play something more sim and challenging, I look to the 2k series. Overall in comparison however the EA games tend to bug me more because the realism that I generally prefer isn't there and has been glossed over with features that make neophytes just plain giggly.

            It's a smart way to make games, because I hate to tell you, that most people who are serious about the sports are playing them, not video games

            Have fun.........................
            Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

            What I think I think:
            • Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
            • Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
            • Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter

            Comment

            • KBomber
              Pro
              • Nov 2003
              • 512

              #7
              Re: I'm not suprised ...

              Originally posted by monkey
              Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

              I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.

              No play sets and no fast breaks...but all star weekends + dunks.

              That right there confirms the games market. Casual fans are roped in by stuff like dunk competitions.

              Sales are all that matters...but hey, who can blame them for that. That's a business mantra everywhere.
              Just when I think that Monkey has dropped off the face of the earth, he always drops in to make a great post like this. I think the one thing that EA has always done well in all their games is finding those singular elements that the unwashed masses really like and building core gameplay elements around them. You see that in all their games, whether it's the inclusion of the ASG, Dunk Contests and nifty animations in Live, the Hit Stick and long ball in Madden or the brutal hits in NHL 2005, the flash of the sports are always there, it's generally the fulfilling substance that's gone missing

              I tend to like EA games when I want to play something that isn't going to challenge me too much. When I'm looking to play something more sim and challenging, I look to the 2k series. Overall in comparison however the EA games tend to bug me more because the realism that I generally prefer isn't there and has been glossed over with features that make neophytes just plain giggly.

              It's a smart way to make games, because I hate to tell you, that most people who are serious about the sports are playing them, not video games

              Have fun.........................
              Basketball made me the man I am today; Arthritic and Bitter...

              What I think I think:
              • Y'know, I've never played less NBA 2K than I did with NBA 2K12
              • Sports VG titles were REALLY disappointing in 2011-12
              • Thank Heaven for ME3 and Arkham City -- saved my winter

              Comment

              • SonicMage
                NBA Ratings Wizard
                • Oct 2002
                • 3544

                #8
                Re: I'm not suprised ...

                Originally posted by monkey
                Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

                I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.
                Where I think you're way off-base is those kinds of things you're talking about are not typically the decision of the programmers. Designers and producers handle those decisions. That's all I have to say about that. That was my gripe, and I'm finished griping about it now.
                NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

                Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
                Link to Ratings 1996-2017
                Link to Ratings 1973-1996
                Link to Ratings All-time

                Discussion found here

                Comment

                • SonicMage
                  NBA Ratings Wizard
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 3544

                  #9
                  Re: I'm not suprised ...

                  Originally posted by monkey
                  Sonic, we all work man and the guy working for $5 an hour also spends time away from his family. Programmers are paid nicely for their time.

                  I wouldn't go so far as to call them lazy. However, the simple facts are that the EA guys spend a hell of a lot of their time on 'gimmicks' and attracting casual fans.
                  Where I think you're way off-base is those kinds of things you're talking about are not typically the decision of the programmers. Designers and producers handle those decisions. That's all I have to say about that. That was my gripe, and I'm finished griping about it now.
                  NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

                  Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
                  Link to Ratings 1996-2017
                  Link to Ratings 1973-1996
                  Link to Ratings All-time

                  Discussion found here

                  Comment

                  • blackceasar
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 3228

                    #10
                    Re: I'm not suprised ...

                    Originally posted by Sonicmage
                    Where I think you're way off-base is those kinds of things you're talking about are not typically the decision of the programmers. Designers and producers handle those decisions. That's all I have to say about that. That was my gripe, and I'm finished griping about it now.
                    I dont really even think its the developer's fault anymore. I used to, but Im started to rethink that. I think more of the blame falls on EA's big wigs AND the casual gamer. Big Wigs want to turn a big profit as possible and of course the personal benefit of that for them is OBVIOUS (sorry folks, we DO live in a "me first" society). Then you have the casual gamer. The gamer who accounts for about 70-80% of any sports games sales. These are the ones who buy the games just cuz they are that years sports titles and its got pro teams and thier favorite player in it. They dont care about the things we care about so of course they dont raise a stink about it like we do. But if EA and any other game company for that matter realize that they dont have to appeaze us as long as they have the "casual gamer" forking over the cash to thier pockets then you arent ever gonna see the things fixed or refined that WE want to see...and looking at EA's track record, I think they have allready figured outwho makes up most of thier sales. lol
                    __________________________________________________ ____

                    PSN = LordHveMercy08

                    XBL = Lord Hve Mercy

                    Add me now, because I don't like playing with little random 12 year olds.

                    Comment

                    • blackceasar
                      MVP
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 3228

                      #11
                      Re: I'm not suprised ...

                      Originally posted by Sonicmage
                      Where I think you're way off-base is those kinds of things you're talking about are not typically the decision of the programmers. Designers and producers handle those decisions. That's all I have to say about that. That was my gripe, and I'm finished griping about it now.
                      I dont really even think its the developer's fault anymore. I used to, but Im started to rethink that. I think more of the blame falls on EA's big wigs AND the casual gamer. Big Wigs want to turn a big profit as possible and of course the personal benefit of that for them is OBVIOUS (sorry folks, we DO live in a "me first" society). Then you have the casual gamer. The gamer who accounts for about 70-80% of any sports games sales. These are the ones who buy the games just cuz they are that years sports titles and its got pro teams and thier favorite player in it. They dont care about the things we care about so of course they dont raise a stink about it like we do. But if EA and any other game company for that matter realize that they dont have to appeaze us as long as they have the "casual gamer" forking over the cash to thier pockets then you arent ever gonna see the things fixed or refined that WE want to see...and looking at EA's track record, I think they have allready figured outwho makes up most of thier sales. lol
                      __________________________________________________ ____

                      PSN = LordHveMercy08

                      XBL = Lord Hve Mercy

                      Add me now, because I don't like playing with little random 12 year olds.

                      Comment

                      • PlayaHataSupreme
                        MVP
                        • Jun 2003
                        • 2209

                        #12
                        Re: I'm not suprised ...

                        I think EA advertising their gimmicks is no worse than a music artist putting out certain types of singles to get people to buy their record.

                        I don't think a catchy line for MVP Baseball would be "improved player progression" and "improved lefty HR hitting"....... even though these types of low profile things get mentioned in producer/developer interviews, it's not something they want to put on the back of the box to sell their product.
                        Favorite Teams:
                        NBA: Houston Rockets
                        NFL: Tennessee Titans
                        MLB: Chicago White Sox
                        NCAA: Florida State Seminoles


                        Comment

                        • PlayaHataSupreme
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 2209

                          #13
                          Re: I'm not suprised ...

                          I think EA advertising their gimmicks is no worse than a music artist putting out certain types of singles to get people to buy their record.

                          I don't think a catchy line for MVP Baseball would be "improved player progression" and "improved lefty HR hitting"....... even though these types of low profile things get mentioned in producer/developer interviews, it's not something they want to put on the back of the box to sell their product.
                          Favorite Teams:
                          NBA: Houston Rockets
                          NFL: Tennessee Titans
                          MLB: Chicago White Sox
                          NCAA: Florida State Seminoles


                          Comment

                          • ludacris06
                            Banned
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 1527

                            #14
                            Re: I'm not suprised ...

                            Originally posted by Sonicmage
                            I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.

                            As far as A.I. cheating...thats what AI does in almost every single video game, no matter what genre. We don't have the hardware to be able to support anything close to what can be considered human-like AI at the moment.
                            Double U Tee Eff do you think they do when the game plays nearly the same two years in a row? Compared to VC, EA hasn't done much to improve the gameplay at all IMO. The CPU teams play cheaper when the difficulty level is increased (which has been in Live since the SNES days), the late game A.I. is still there as if they don't even care, and for some strange reason the game doesn't even show you how the plays are ran.

                            The dynasty mode is the only thing I like about the game which makes me think EA didn't do much on the gameplay other than fix the problems that ruined 2004's game, spend a ton of time on ASW, and then fixed up the dynasty mode. It just doesn't sound like alot of work to me. I also could have sworn the put back and tip ins were in last year's game as well.

                            The majority of the animations are still there with a ton of new dunks (which shouldn't suprise anyone), post moves, and turn & catch animations. That isn't bad because most of the animations were fine. The only thing that bothered me was that the animation where you could lay the ball off the glass is gone. I usually just see finger rolls like in 2k4.

                            The online features are the best with EA's games, but still they haven't made any gameplay tweaks to contain the cheesers. The games are played on the default settings (which are totoally ARCADE) and it allows gamers to take advantage of every single flaw with the gameplay. That's why there are more cheese puffs than actual gamers out there.

                            IMO, these guys are lazy and made no real push into the sim direction like they did in 2003 when Live '04 was released. It's scary to imagine what their games would be like if EA decided to run with the NBA lisence.

                            Comment

                            • ludacris06
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 1527

                              #15
                              Re: I'm not suprised ...

                              Originally posted by Sonicmage
                              I dont ever want to hear you or anyone else call a developer lazy again. You have no idea what these guys do...including how many hours away from their family they have to spend slaving away.

                              As far as A.I. cheating...thats what AI does in almost every single video game, no matter what genre. We don't have the hardware to be able to support anything close to what can be considered human-like AI at the moment.
                              Double U Tee Eff do you think they do when the game plays nearly the same two years in a row? Compared to VC, EA hasn't done much to improve the gameplay at all IMO. The CPU teams play cheaper when the difficulty level is increased (which has been in Live since the SNES days), the late game A.I. is still there as if they don't even care, and for some strange reason the game doesn't even show you how the plays are ran.

                              The dynasty mode is the only thing I like about the game which makes me think EA didn't do much on the gameplay other than fix the problems that ruined 2004's game, spend a ton of time on ASW, and then fixed up the dynasty mode. It just doesn't sound like alot of work to me. I also could have sworn the put back and tip ins were in last year's game as well.

                              The majority of the animations are still there with a ton of new dunks (which shouldn't suprise anyone), post moves, and turn & catch animations. That isn't bad because most of the animations were fine. The only thing that bothered me was that the animation where you could lay the ball off the glass is gone. I usually just see finger rolls like in 2k4.

                              The online features are the best with EA's games, but still they haven't made any gameplay tweaks to contain the cheesers. The games are played on the default settings (which are totoally ARCADE) and it allows gamers to take advantage of every single flaw with the gameplay. That's why there are more cheese puffs than actual gamers out there.

                              IMO, these guys are lazy and made no real push into the sim direction like they did in 2003 when Live '04 was released. It's scary to imagine what their games would be like if EA decided to run with the NBA lisence.

                              Comment

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