Something i've been wondering

[Taur3asi3]

I've had this game since it came out and for the life of me i cant understand the ratings for the players on the 60s,70s, and 80s all star teams. Maybe i missed it but i dont understand how they can make Zydrunas Illgauskas as good as Robert Parish or Carmelo Anthony better then James Worthy or Yao Ming better then Kevin McHale. Is there any logical reason behind the ratings? Chamberlain is like a 94 which i can understand but Walt Bellamy is only a 61 and Kareem and Moses were in the low-mid 70s? Can anyone help me understand this? Im going to do my historic rosters with Live and its gunna be a pain in the *** the edit them to they fit in with my CAPs (meaning Ewing or Olajuwon would be 90s where as Kareem would have to edited severly to come close to that)

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

I've had this game since it came out and for the life of me i cant understand the ratings for the players on the 60s,70s, and 80s all star teams. Maybe i missed it but i dont understand how they can make Zydrunas Illgauskas as good as Robert Parish or Carmelo Anthony better then James Worthy or Yao Ming better then Kevin McHale. Is there any logical reason behind the ratings? Chamberlain is like a 94 which i can understand but Walt Bellamy is only a 61 and Kareem and Moses were in the low-mid 70s? Can anyone help me understand this? Im going to do my historic rosters with Live and its gunna be a pain in the *** the edit them to they fit in with my CAPs (meaning Ewing or Olajuwon would be 90s where as Kareem would have to edited severly to come close to that)

There are lots of things I can say here. Its a combination of several different factors, probably every factor that can possibly happen.

Some of it is just plain incorrect ratings. Moses Malone is low partly because his default dunking rating is 10, which is VERY incorrect. I would put it more at like in the 80's or even a 90. This will move his overall rating into the low 70's. I remember complaining about this back when the ratings were released before the game was.

Another thing is the problem with an overall rating to begin with. How do you assign a number to how good a player is OVERALL, regardless of position? Quite simply, you cant! NBA Live tries doing different things such as adding points here and there depending what position you play, etc., but you know itll never be perfect. I just created the 95-96 Bulls (the one that had 72 wins) using their stats and Live had their team overall rating at...79! Rodman was, I think, 54 overall. But you cant trust overall ratings, see Rodman's Off. and Def. Rebound ratings were at 99 and those are correct. Anyways, I watched them go CPU-CPU 12 minute quarters against the 93-94 Sonics (rated 88 overall) and the Bulls absolutely crushed those Sonics, as they probably would, though their team overall rating said theyre much worse. The score was 123-111, what a great game. I always go by individual category ratings over overall ratings, you just cant trust them.

Now, another reason is that the players weren't really 90 rated type players! You mention Walt Bellamy, but NBA Live doesnt generate ratings based on how the players played in their prime, it bases it on how they played over their entire career, meaning career stats basically. Look at Bellamy's stats, he scored very well his first few years but then never averaged 20 points per game again, in the next 9 years of his career. Therefore, his scoring ratings would suffer because of it. Same thing iobviously had a huge impact on Kareem's ratings. Bellamy's strength was his rebounding, and Live has given him a 75 off rebound, which is a good rating, and 72 defensive rebound, which is probably too low, but still modest. Its tough because they didnt record offensive and defensive rebounds back then. Guys who were top of the league players back then might only be moderately good in today's league, especially when youre talking about the 1950's and 1960's, with some few standout exceptions.

I hope this helped you understand better whats going on.

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

I've had this game since it came out and for the life of me i cant understand the ratings for the players on the 60s,70s, and 80s all star teams. Maybe i missed it but i dont understand how they can make Zydrunas Illgauskas as good as Robert Parish or Carmelo Anthony better then James Worthy or Yao Ming better then Kevin McHale. Is there any logical reason behind the ratings? Chamberlain is like a 94 which i can understand but Walt Bellamy is only a 61 and Kareem and Moses were in the low-mid 70s? Can anyone help me understand this? Im going to do my historic rosters with Live and its gunna be a pain in the *** the edit them to they fit in with my CAPs (meaning Ewing or Olajuwon would be 90s where as Kareem would have to edited severly to come close to that)

There are lots of things I can say here. Its a combination of several different factors, probably every factor that can possibly happen.

Some of it is just plain incorrect ratings. Moses Malone is low partly because his default dunking rating is 10, which is VERY incorrect. I would put it more at like in the 80's or even a 90. This will move his overall rating into the low 70's. I remember complaining about this back when the ratings were released before the game was.

Another thing is the problem with an overall rating to begin with. How do you assign a number to how good a player is OVERALL, regardless of position? Quite simply, you cant! NBA Live tries doing different things such as adding points here and there depending what position you play, etc., but you know itll never be perfect. I just created the 95-96 Bulls (the one that had 72 wins) using their stats and Live had their team overall rating at...79! Rodman was, I think, 54 overall. But you cant trust overall ratings, see Rodman's Off. and Def. Rebound ratings were at 99 and those are correct. Anyways, I watched them go CPU-CPU 12 minute quarters against the 93-94 Sonics (rated 88 overall) and the Bulls absolutely crushed those Sonics, as they probably would, though their team overall rating said theyre much worse. The score was 123-111, what a great game. I always go by individual category ratings over overall ratings, you just cant trust them.

Now, another reason is that the players weren't really 90 rated type players! You mention Walt Bellamy, but NBA Live doesnt generate ratings based on how the players played in their prime, it bases it on how they played over their entire career, meaning career stats basically. Look at Bellamy's stats, he scored very well his first few years but then never averaged 20 points per game again, in the next 9 years of his career. Therefore, his scoring ratings would suffer because of it. Same thing iobviously had a huge impact on Kareem's ratings. Bellamy's strength was his rebounding, and Live has given him a 75 off rebound, which is a good rating, and 72 defensive rebound, which is probably too low, but still modest. Its tough because they didnt record offensive and defensive rebounds back then. Guys who were top of the league players back then might only be moderately good in today's league, especially when youre talking about the 1950's and 1960's, with some few standout exceptions.

I hope this helped you understand better whats going on.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: Something i've been wondering

Yeah but if they're going to put Walt Bellamy on the 60's team they should do his ratings based on the stats he accumulated during that time period where if i did the math right he averaged 21ppg and 18rpg same with Moses and Kareem (Moses won 2 MVP awards (3 overall) in the 80s back to back and a championship and averaged about 23ppg and 14rpg where Kareem won 1 mvp (6 overall) and and i think 3 titles and averaged 20ppg and 7rpg well into his mid-late 30s. Granted Kareem was well past his prime but looking at the numbers his prime lasted 17 years. The system they used is just completely flawed though IMO because it seems like they rated them how they assume they'd perform today when they should rate them how ESPN 2k5 did.

Also if your interested i tinkered with a Rodman CAP and he came out to be a 90 and averaged 11 rebounds and like 7 points on the Bad Boy Piston team i made it had Laimbeer, Isiah, Dumars, Aguirre, Rodman, and im going to work on making Microwave tomorrow after my class.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: Something i've been wondering

Yeah but if they're going to put Walt Bellamy on the 60's team they should do his ratings based on the stats he accumulated during that time period where if i did the math right he averaged 21ppg and 18rpg same with Moses and Kareem (Moses won 2 MVP awards (3 overall) in the 80s back to back and a championship and averaged about 23ppg and 14rpg where Kareem won 1 mvp (6 overall) and and i think 3 titles and averaged 20ppg and 7rpg well into his mid-late 30s. Granted Kareem was well past his prime but looking at the numbers his prime lasted 17 years. The system they used is just completely flawed though IMO because it seems like they rated them how they assume they'd perform today when they should rate them how ESPN 2k5 did.

Also if your interested i tinkered with a Rodman CAP and he came out to be a 90 and averaged 11 rebounds and like 7 points on the Bad Boy Piston team i made it had Laimbeer, Isiah, Dumars, Aguirre, Rodman, and im going to work on making Microwave tomorrow after my class.

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

The system they used is just completely flawed though IMO because it seems like they rated them how they assume they'd perform today when they should rate them how ESPN 2k5 did.

There's not much assumption going on, a lot of them are based off stats. Its all about per minute stats.

I'll do Kareem, Moses, and Bellamy using my rating generating system, which is very similar, and I'll tell you what I come up with....so, only how they played during that decade, right? Ok, give it a sec, I'll post it...

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

The system they used is just completely flawed though IMO because it seems like they rated them how they assume they'd perform today when they should rate them how ESPN 2k5 did.

There's not much assumption going on, a lot of them are based off stats. Its all about per minute stats.

I'll do Kareem, Moses, and Bellamy using my rating generating system, which is very similar, and I'll tell you what I come up with....so, only how they played during that decade, right? Ok, give it a sec, I'll post it...

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

Ok, here are the new ratings for those 3 guys, using only stats from the decades of the teams theyre on. For only Walt Bellamy, ignore the steal, block, and defensive awareness categories, because they didn't keep defensive stats back then. Also, my system always halves the jumping rating, to fix the CPU in-game blocking problem, so just keep that in mind. I think you'll like these better.

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 1068pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="1422"> <col style="width: 72pt;" width="96"> <col style="width: 55pt;" width="73"> <col style="width: 38pt;" width="51"> <col style="width: 33pt;" width="44"> <col style="width: 29pt;" width="39"> <col span="2" style="width: 41pt;" width="54"> <col style="width: 43pt;" width="57"> <col style="width: 47pt;" width="63"> <col style="width: 50pt;" width="66"> <col style="width: 41pt;" width="54"> <col style="width: 52pt;" width="69"> <col span="6" style="width: 54pt;" width="72"> <col style="width: 63pt;" width="84"> <col style="width: 50pt;" width="67"> <col style="width: 51pt;" width="68"> <col style="width: 38pt;" width="51"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 72pt;" height="17" width="96">NAME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 55pt;" width="73">FNAME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 38pt;" width="51">FGRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 33pt;" width="44">3PtRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 29pt;" width="39">FTRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">DunkRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">StealRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 43pt;" width="57">BlockRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 47pt;" width="63">OffRebRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 50pt;" width="66">DefRebRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">PassRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 52pt;" width="69">OffAwarRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">DefAwarRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">SpeedRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">QuickRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">JumpRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">DribbleRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">StrengthRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 63pt;" width="84">HardinessRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 50pt;" width="67">FatigueRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 51pt;" width="68">InsScorRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 38pt;" width="51">PrimRtg</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Abdul-Jabbar</td> <td class="xl24">Kareem</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">98</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">43</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> <td x:num="" align="right">50</td> <td x:num="" align="right">78</td> <td x:num="" align="right">42</td> <td x:num="" align="right">84</td> <td x:num="" align="right">81</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">56</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">68</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="22.5" align="right">23</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">34</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">71</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">72</td> <td x:num="" align="right">78</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Bellamy</td> <td class="xl24">Walt</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">65</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">79</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">95</td> <td x:num="" align="right">30</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">22</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">55</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">58</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">20</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">32</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">52</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">84</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Malone</td> <td class="xl24">Moses</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">86</td> <td x:num="" align="right">2</td> <td x:num="" align="right">77</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">79</td> <td x:num="" align="right">45</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">20</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">57</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">67</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">25</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">42</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">77</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td x:num="" align="right">80</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

[SonicMage]

Re: Something i've been wondering

Ok, here are the new ratings for those 3 guys, using only stats from the decades of the teams theyre on. For only Walt Bellamy, ignore the steal, block, and defensive awareness categories, because they didn't keep defensive stats back then. Also, my system always halves the jumping rating, to fix the CPU in-game blocking problem, so just keep that in mind. I think you'll like these better.

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 1068pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="1422"> <col style="width: 72pt;" width="96"> <col style="width: 55pt;" width="73"> <col style="width: 38pt;" width="51"> <col style="width: 33pt;" width="44"> <col style="width: 29pt;" width="39"> <col span="2" style="width: 41pt;" width="54"> <col style="width: 43pt;" width="57"> <col style="width: 47pt;" width="63"> <col style="width: 50pt;" width="66"> <col style="width: 41pt;" width="54"> <col style="width: 52pt;" width="69"> <col span="6" style="width: 54pt;" width="72"> <col style="width: 63pt;" width="84"> <col style="width: 50pt;" width="67"> <col style="width: 51pt;" width="68"> <col style="width: 38pt;" width="51"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 72pt;" height="17" width="96">NAME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 55pt;" width="73">FNAME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 38pt;" width="51">FGRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 33pt;" width="44">3PtRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 29pt;" width="39">FTRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">DunkRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">StealRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 43pt;" width="57">BlockRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 47pt;" width="63">OffRebRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 50pt;" width="66">DefRebRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 41pt;" width="54">PassRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 52pt;" width="69">OffAwarRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">DefAwarRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">SpeedRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">QuickRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">JumpRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">DribbleRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 54pt;" width="72">StrengthRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 63pt;" width="84">HardinessRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 50pt;" width="67">FatigueRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 51pt;" width="68">InsScorRtg</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 38pt;" width="51">PrimRtg</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Abdul-Jabbar</td> <td class="xl24">Kareem</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">98</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">43</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> <td x:num="" align="right">50</td> <td x:num="" align="right">78</td> <td x:num="" align="right">42</td> <td x:num="" align="right">84</td> <td x:num="" align="right">81</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">56</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">68</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="22.5" align="right">23</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">34</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">71</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">72</td> <td x:num="" align="right">78</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Bellamy</td> <td class="xl24">Walt</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">65</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">79</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">0</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">95</td> <td x:num="" align="right">30</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">22</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">55</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">58</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">20</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">32</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">52</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">84</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">82</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17">Malone</td> <td class="xl24">Moses</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">86</td> <td x:num="" align="right">2</td> <td x:num="" align="right">77</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">79</td> <td x:num="" align="right">45</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td x:num="" align="right">90</td> <td x:num="" align="right">88</td> <td x:num="" align="right">20</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">57</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">67</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">25</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">42</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">77</td> <td class="xl24" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td x:num="" align="right">80</td> <td x:num="" align="right">91</td> <td x:num="" align="right">87</td> </tr></tbody> </table>