Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

[trav402]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

lol at people treating these games as if its one of their kids, play your game of choice and stop worrying about the other

[HMcCoy]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I got both.

Live does some new things...makes you think about new things. It's always exciting when new ways to play a sports game are introduced. In Live, the lane deterents force you to play on the perimeter, a first in basketball gaming. We're all used to gaming buddies crashing to the bucket on every posession...or we shamefully play sim basketball for the first 20 seconds of the clock, and if all else fails head to the basket. Live doesn't let either happen easily. Feels nice not to have that bailout penetration as a security blanket, and for that reason Live feels great.

Make no mistake though...90% of what people call "sim" in Live is simply anti-cheese. Its unrealistic mechanics created to fight unrealistic users. The ridiculously high turnover rate in the paint, the fact that 9 out of 10 layups are contested as if every defender is a physical presence like Big Ben.

"But you shouldn't be able to waltz to the hole!!!

Yeah, this is true...but locking up the lane with AI cheats is not the answer either. Turning every NBA schmuck into a combination of Big Perk and Scottie Pippen isn't anymore sim than guards like Aaron Brooks owning the paint in 2K9.

Again, Live represents a fresh take on how a basketball game can be played, and that is a great goal...but both games unbalanced the core gameplay a bit, as 2K does the exact same thing with their automatic doubles and senseless help defenses. Our enjoyment of videogame basketball is now based on the whims of the worst of us it seems.

The funniest part is that Live's rubber band logic is even heavier than 2K's which I didn't think was possible. All the "sim" stuff you do in Live...all the "real basketball" logic that Live requires...all comes and goes with the score, lol. Won't get into that right now, tho.

I don't think Lives mechanics are bad per se...but the AI should be adaptive and those mechanics should kick in when needed, not be some concrete rock/paper rules that control an entire game. Both games could eliminate cheese completely with dynamic fatigue. Maybe one day.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I respectfully disagree. In every game I've played in Live so far--PvP or User vs. AI, I've gotten realistic stats. And not just the same uniform stats, but realistic stats according to the game that was played. I played Sage in three games. Thunder vs. Phoenix, Thunder vs. Houston and Knicks Vs. Dallas.

In all three games, we got different stats, but stats that were realistic for those matchups, and for how the games were played. It was really amazing. And as Sage said "the stats are one thing, but if you look at the games, the shots that go in and the shots that miss are very realistic."

2k plays by its own rules of video game basketball, and is missing many of the core elements that reflect real life. Live is still missing some of those elements as well, but not nearly as many as 2k. In Live, matching up Nate Robinson with Josh Howard provides the exact mismatches on both sides of the ball that it does in real life. The whole jumpshooting mechanism and fail/success rate is much more realistic in Live. In fact, I think "more" realistic does it a disservice. It's flat out realistic.

I'm not denying that there is some defensive sliding/cheating by the CPU in Live, but it doesn't dominate the experience at all. The contact isn't even the problem, it's the fact that Live happens in "the land of no fouls", lol.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

great post McCoy, I definitely agree with you on all points

[magicman32]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I got both.

Live does some new things...makes you think about new things. It's always exciting when new ways to play a sports game are introduced. In Live, the lane deterents force you to play on the perimeter, a first in basketball gaming. We're all used to gaming buddies crashing to the bucket on every posession...or we shamefully play sim basketball for the first 20 seconds of the clock, and if all else fails head to the basket. Live doesn't let either happen easily. Feels nice not to have that bailout penetration as a security blanket, and for that reason Live feels great.

Make no mistake though...90% of what people call "sim" in Live is simply anti-cheese. Its unrealistic mechanics created to fight unrealistic users. The ridiculously high turnover rate in the paint, the fact that 9 out of 10 layups are contested as if every defender is a physical presence like Big Ben.

"But you shouldn't be able to waltz to the hole!!!

Yeah, this is true...but locking up the lane with AI cheats is not the answer either. Turning every NBA schmuck into a combination of Big Perk and Scottie Pippen isn't anymore sim than guards like Aaron Brooks owning the paint in 2K9.

Again, Live represents a fresh take on how a basketball game can be played, and that is a great goal...but both games unbalanced the core gameplay a bit, as 2K does the exact same thing with their automatic doubles and senseless help defenses. Our enjoyment of videogame basketball is now based on the whims of the worst of us it seems.

The funniest part is that Live's rubber band logic is even heavier than 2K's which I didn't think was possible. All the "sim" stuff you do in Live...all the "real basketball" logic that Live requires...all comes and goes with the score, lol. Won't get into that right now, tho.

I don't think Lives mechanics are bad per se...but the AI should be adaptive and those mechanics should kick in when needed, not be some concrete rock/paper rules that control an entire game. Both games could eliminate cheese completely with dynamic fatigue. Maybe one day.

I agree with this also. This pretty much sums it up. Great post.

[therizing02]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I agree with McCoy as well. Excellent post man.

I have both games as well and I like both games for different reasons.

I played 2k for about 3 hours yesterday afternoon with a few tweaks to the shooting sliders and game speed at All Star setting. I aslo turned the CPU clutch factor down to 5 because the game just feels scripted to me otherwise. I played Live for 4 hours last night. 2 games on SS and 2 games on AS with no slider tweaks.

Strategy? Overall IMO, 2k is the deeper game from a strategy standpoint. I like the on the fly sliders for Rebounding, Tempo, Help D, etc. There are more options. I found myself more in the coaching menus and matchup/pressure settings than I ever have in a basketball game yesterday. This I like. There is more on this below.

My issues with NBA Live in this area are minimal only because I think they are trying to get it right on the floor this year and they'll add the strategy, animations, and other things next year. I'm ok with this because Live has been a fun experience so far and I feel it has a lot of replay value.

Subs? I like how in 2k if there are subs they show the screen with the faces and the ones going out of the game disappear and the ones coming in appear. In Live you hear the buzzer and no commentary from Marv or Steve. There's just a screen that comes up with who's on the floor now in text. Not bad but when I'm dribbling up the floor it's a bit of a challenge.

-I LOVE the Rewind games in Live.
-Haven't started My Player yet in 2k but I will soon. Lots of depth here.
-Dynamic Season in Live will be AMAZING(Kanye). I won't play 82 games with one team. This is my kind of Dynasty.
-NBA Today...see my signature.

****The collision detection in Live is amazing and may even be a bit overdone, but until I find a good set of sliders in 2K I think the paint is STILL money. Way too easy to get inside. I say overdone in Live because once I figure out the controls it may not be as bad.

Fast Breaks? 2K. Hands down the best. Right now it seems that there is a speed cheat in Live in favor of the CPU. If I steal a ball with Mo Williams between the circles how are three Indiana players beating me to the opposite end of the floor? On the other hand why do my players feel like they're running in quick sand when the CPU steals the ball?

In BOTH games the CPU uses there best player(s) effectively.

*****In BOTH games you need to think about EVERY possession on O and D. Match-ups, mismatches, who's hot,who's not, pressure settings, etc. You can not afford to take off a possession.This is greatest thing about BOTH GAMES. Remember, we're not playing video games we're playing basketball.******

Dynamic DNA?? If it works and is implemented properly all hail to this!

AI? I feel that the AI in 2K is much better. Too many times in Live, I'm seeing poor late game clock management(this is common in ALL EA Games) and fadeaway shots that go in from the most unlikely heroes like Mikki Moore. No offense Mikki but a 20 ft. fadeaway is not in your arsenal. I just am not seeing this in 2k. It's not a gamekiller by any means. It may even get patched.

***The screens/pics in Live are a joke and they aren't in 2k. One may argue that they are too effective in 2k, but in Live the screener rolls before even making contact with the defense.There may be some sliders to fix this though.

Commentary? Easily 2K. I've always liked Harlan IRL and he's very good in the game. The dynamic commentary is incredible and unprecedented for a sports title.
Arena Sounds? Live...but only by a little.

Graphics? What's the point in debating this? Everyone has there own tastes. It's not really that important to me. The uniforms look good in both.

Faces?I don;t know what everyone in the league looks like, but he players that I do know, I can tell who they are in both games.

Player Models? The differences are too small for me to even care.

Shoe, Tats, Headbands, and other Accessories? Important to some but not me. I could care less if LeBron's headband is blue or white.

Fun factor? This is really the bottom line isn't it? We all can agree that neither game is perfect. You just need to decide what issues you can deal with and which ones you can't. Even though at this point I had more WTF was that? and WTF is he doing? moments in Live I had fun playing both and I'll be keeping both.

[nccomicfan]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I'll make it simple...right now October 7,2009..It's Live...if at some time points in the paint and interior defense are fixed via a patch and/or sliders, then 2k blows any game ever made before out of the water

This one big issue with 2k just spoils that which is otherwise phenomenal

Live's one year jump is incredible but even it's biggest fans(of which I am one) will admit it lacks alot of the nuances of true NBA hoops

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

I've got both and I'm the minority that thinks 2k is a better sim. I'd rather not go in depth, as it's just my opinion. Just my 2c.

[magicman32]

Re: Live 10 vs 2k10 (pure basketball sim)

2k10 is the better sim.