I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

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  • The 24th Letter
    ERA
    • Oct 2007
    • 39373

    #1

    I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

    I usually dont make "comparison" threads b\c of the madness, but I really noticed this and wanted to get you guys view on it....

    I really feel like 2k captures players tendencies better..

    Live has half court sets, mid range players, off screens down no question.... but when it comes to guys like Amare, who can square you up from the mid paint area and finish, Shawn Marion, who gets his points off slashing and hustle...Im really seeing a big difference..I hardly see a big play out of character in 2k..no fadeaways, stepbacks either..

    Its just strange to me since Live has a great system in DNA its running off of. I figured "Hey this is it, this should really nail player differences....but im just not seeing it as much in comparison.

    of course this is all my experience, anyone else seeing this?
    Last edited by The 24th Letter; 11-11-2009, 01:17 PM.
  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28962

    #2
    Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

    Why the "wrong" game?

    I don't even have to play 2K post-patch to agree with you. Live gets a few guys down perfectly (DWade and LeBron are the best, seeing LBJ shoot all those off-balance shots is real cool) but non-stars are not done well. Too much catch-n-shoot from everyone. TJ Ford shot too many 3's against me the other night with the Knicks, stuff like that. There are very few "turndowns" in Live (a guy has an open shot but passes to get a better one). I don't know if 2K is like that post patch, no video game has ever gotten it down really well, but it's probably not as bad as Live.

    DNA does some things well but the notion that it gets video game versions of real-life players to play exactly like themselves is obviously 100% bogus. Sometimes I feel like DNA may be too much info for the game to handle and it's screwing things. Simply put guys like Andrew Bynum at 0 for 3PA tendency - problem solved.
    Last edited by ehh; 11-11-2009, 01:29 PM.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

    Comment

    • The 24th Letter
      ERA
      • Oct 2007
      • 39373

      #3
      Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

      Originally posted by ehh
      Why the "wrong" game?
      Well this is my first time REALLY REALLY playing Live.....I had heard so much about DNA and how it comes into play, how it collects info on what players do....I thought it would completely dominate this aspect...so im suprised that IMHO, 2k is doing it better...You get what im saying? not a shot at either game..

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #4
        Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

        Ah, gotcha.

        As I said above I think 2K is probably better because they keep things pretty simple in this regard. Ever since 2K introduced the tendencies (I think it was 2K6 but I can't remember) I've always been happy with out the effected gameplay.

        It's funny looking over Live and the DNA, unless I'm missing something there is no percentage for how often players pass in certain situations. You get all this data about them driving left, driving right, no dribble J, etc, etc. But there's nothing that says 'passes 75% of the time". When bigs like Bynum, Shaq, Howard are 15-feet out and further there should be a "Pass 99%" for that zone/situation. Maybe this is programmed in some other facet besides DNA? Maybe it's not programmed at all judging by some of the shots I see big men taking on occasion.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • ehh
          Hall Of Fame
          • Mar 2003
          • 28962

          #5
          Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

          Here's an example, Duhwight's DNA..

          Perimeter:

          Drive Left 36% (pull up 25% , finishes at basket 75%)
          Drive Right: 50% (pull up 18%, finishes at basket 82%)
          No-Dribble Jumper: 14%

          Post:

          Turn Left: 36%
          Turn Right: 34%
          Face up: 30%

          Nothing in there dictates anything about passing the ball. What differentiates the CPU from knowing it's Duhwight compared to Anderson Varejao? His DNA...

          Perimeter:

          Drive Left 50% (pull up 9%, finishes at basket 91%)
          Drive Right: 50% (pull up 55%, finishes at basket 45%)
          No-Dribble Jumper: 25%

          Post:

          Turn Left: 57%
          Turn Right: 35%
          Face up: 8%

          The scoring tendencies for both...

          Howard: 32% at basket, 1% jumpshot, 67% post
          Varejao: 63% at basket, 25% jumpshot, 12% post

          Again, nothing about passing.

          What controls how many shots a player takes? There has to be something somewhere because LeBron, Durant, Granger, Wade, etc have all taken by far the most amount of shots on their team when I played them.

          There has to be a "Pass %" mixed in somewhere. Really all that DNA is is how players score. Is it just "mid range shooting likelihood" etc that has to be dropped like crazy? TJ Ford has 47 for 3PT liklihood yet he took at least four against me.

          EDIT:

          LOL, looking through this more it probably explains why we see problems. Andrew Bynum has 50 for 3PT likelihood? That's higher than Lamar Odom and Luke Walton (45, 36 respectively)! Time to make a thread in the Live forum and ask what's up. Gasol has 1 for 3PTL. I have a feeling some roster edits could make this game play A LOT better.
          Last edited by ehh; 11-11-2009, 02:12 PM.
          "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

          "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

          Comment

          • 23
            yellow
            • Sep 2002
            • 66469

            #6
            Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

            That's exactly the problem ehh

            Comment

            • The 24th Letter
              ERA
              • Oct 2007
              • 39373

              #7
              Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

              hahaha wow, seems like they should ditch auto updates of DNA and just do them manually lol

              Comment

              • 23
                yellow
                • Sep 2002
                • 66469

                #8
                Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                They have a couple of ratings one for shooting mentality and I cant remember the other but everyone's shooting mentality is low

                For instance guys like Melo, Kobe, Bron, Wade, Durant are no higher than 14 at the most

                So everyone else is at like 7 or 4 or 2

                Comment

                • ehh
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 28962

                  #9
                  Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                  At least the proof is in the pudding and we have a reason as to why players aren't playing true to life. At the same time this is very embarrassing for EA, I mean this is pathetic.

                  The whole 'DNA updates' and 'updated daily' buzz words are giant load of BS. The NBA is three weeks in and Live hasn't been properly updated once.

                  Is it even worth going through and manually changing every thing? All you can do with that roster is play dynasty (which is everyone knows isn't good) and play now games. No Dynamic Season and no online. Really EA? At this point is there a legitimate reason to keep this game? Unless EA corrects this and does it soon I don't see any point in continuing to own this game.
                  "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                  "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                  Comment

                  • 23
                    yellow
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 66469

                    #10
                    Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                    Honestly, its been like this for years and its the reason why Playmakers edits the entire game each year. EA never changed the ratings, then they bring in DNA.

                    I'd say if you do the edits, stick with it and the current rosters and stuff and do the trades yourself. I know he made Live 06 fun with edits and that game only had 4 plays total lol

                    Save it as a seperate file so that you can still play DS in the default. If you edit the entire game there is no reason for anymore updates other than DS, because you can take the edits into Dynasty.

                    Comment

                    • magicman32
                      Pro
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 803

                      #11
                      Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                      2k's 82games and tendencies > nba live's DNA/Synergy.

                      Comment

                      • NINJAK2
                        *S *dd*ct
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 6185

                        #12
                        Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                        Nba Live is great at getting people in the right spots on the floor but 2k is superior in representing how that player attacks you once they have the ball. Imo it's not really that close. They have a crazy amount of tendencies.

                        Live team sets>>>>>>>>>>>>2k's
                        2k individual tendencies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>live's
                        Last edited by NINJAK2; 11-11-2009, 09:57 PM.
                        EA and 2k have the unfortunate task of trying to balance on a tightrope of fun and sim while trying not to fall 10,000 feet to their death. Instead of a safety net waiting down below there will just be angry customers quick to move out of the way and talk of their failure.

                        Comment

                        • magicman32
                          Pro
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 803

                          #13
                          Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                          Originally posted by NINJAK2
                          Nba Live is great at getting people in the right spots on the floor but 2k is superior in representing how that player attacks you once they have the ball. Imo it's not really that close. They have a crazy amount of tendencies.

                          Live team sets>>>>>>>>>>>>2k's
                          2k individual tendencies>>>>>>>>>>>>>>live's
                          Your sir are correct. I agree 100%. 2k10's plays are frustrating. I hope the patch helps. But overall live have better team sets.

                          Comment

                          • KG
                            Welcome Back
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 17583

                            #14
                            Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                            Originally posted by ehh
                            Ah, gotcha.

                            As I said above I think 2K is probably better because they keep things pretty simple in this regard. Ever since 2K introduced the tendencies (I think it was 2K6 but I can't remember) I've always been happy with out the effected gameplay.

                            It's funny looking over Live and the DNA, unless I'm missing something there is no percentage for how often players pass in certain situations. You get all this data about them driving left, driving right, no dribble J, etc, etc. But there's nothing that says 'passes 75% of the time". When bigs like Bynum, Shaq, Howard are 15-feet out and further there should be a "Pass 99%" for that zone/situation. Maybe this is programmed in some other facet besides DNA? Maybe it's not programmed at all judging by some of the shots I see big men taking on occasion.
                            Yes. If you just looked at the DNA you posted below this without seeing the name you wouldn't be able to tell it's a big man, it could easily be a SF or a finesse PF. I guess the scoring tendencies help clarify this but I never got the feeling of being afraid of a legit big man in this game.
                            Twitter Instagram - kgx2thez

                            Comment

                            • EWRMETS
                              All Star
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 7491

                              #15
                              Re: I feel like the wrong game is winning the tendency battle.....

                              It may have just been one game, but one player that seems to have messed up tendencies in 2k is Rasheed Wallace. The CPU was posting him up instead of setting him up at the three point line. I have seen big men like Matt Bonner set up on the outside so I don't think it's a universal problem.

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