If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

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  • Air23
    Banned
    • Feb 2003
    • 2502

    #1

    If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

    Magic Johnson once called the Cavs the Team of the 90's, during the 1988/89 season.

    Due to the years prior to LeBron James' arrival in Cleveland, many folks forget, or probably the case here, were too young to remember, that the Cavs were an highly talented up-and-coming team in the late 80's/early 90's. An incredible shot by MJ in the First Round of the 89 playoffs and a horrible trade by Cleveland's front office were the downfall of a promising team.

    If MJ's shot was off, and if the Cavs didn't foolishly trade Ron Harper (then called a Poor Man's MJ) for Danny Ferry (WTF? I still shake my head at that one), could the Cavs have been the team in the East to finally dethrone Detroit?
  • bigeastbumrush
    My Momma's Son
    • Feb 2003
    • 19245

    #2
    Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

    Probably not.

    The Cavs were good, but they were soft. Detroit had that will to win that many other teams didn't have. They're roster makeup was nearly perfect as far as everyone knowing exactly what their role was while Isaiah was that superstar.

    Joe Dumars was a good scorer but an incredible defender. The Microwave was unstoppable when he came off the bench. And their defense was tight. The bottom line is that Detroit won simply because they were that good.

    I was never a fan of Brad Dougherty. The guy just didn't do it for me. Lacked heart and toughness IMO. I loved Larry Nance. And Mark Price was as good as it gets at PG at that time.

    I dunno. You had to be a really "tough" team to get through the Celts, Bulls, Hawks & Knicks back then. I didn't see the Cavs being that team consistently. Just my opinion.

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    • PdiddyPop
      K*ngs *f th* D*nc*!
      • Dec 2002
      • 21768

      #3
      Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

      I think the Knicks or Pistons would have that mantle. Like the above poster said. They were soft. Knicks and Pistons would have grinded them into the ground during the playoffs.
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      • Air23
        Banned
        • Feb 2003
        • 2502

        #4
        Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

        Gotta agree with you, bigeast, on the Cavs' softness. THAT was their one major flaw. And, Daugherty, was never a great defensive presence. He did, however, counter that with his scoring and passing (often called the best passing big man in the game at the time).

        I think the only things that allowed the Cavs to hang with the other elite teams in the East was the defensive presence of Larry Nance and Hot Rod Williams, and Cleveland's excellent offensive game. Mark Price was one of the top PGs in the game and one of the best shooters in NBA history. Craig Ehlo provided solid, if unspectacular, defense. And Ron Harper was a very good defender and excellent scorer.

        Funny thing is, as a Bulls fan, I absolutely HATED Cleveland back then. The 88-89 season was their breakout year, and for most of that year, they had the best record in the NBA. Only a late surge by the soon-to-be champion Pistons allowed them to pass the Cavs. Cleveland wound up tied to the second-best record with the Lakers.

        The main thing I hated them for (and harbored hate for them for some years after that) was because the Cavs swept the Bulls all six regular season games that year. The previous year, the Bulls knocked them out of the First Round in five exciting games. Things were looking up for both teams, but the next year, the Cavs made the next step to championship contender, while the Bulls seems to regress a little. Fortunately, the Bulls had an incredible run in the playoffs and made it to the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time. But even when MJ hit The Shot against Cleveland, I knew in my heart that we were gonna be battling the Cavs for the next decade.

        Thankfully, Cavs management fubared BIG TIME by trading away Harper for Danny Ferry.
        Last edited by Air23; 07-24-2005, 10:29 PM.

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        • RoyalBoyle78
          Aka."Footballforever"
          • May 2003
          • 23918

          #5
          Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

          I'd say the Blazers(not because I'm a huge Drexler fan ) or the Jazz could have been, they were they every year in the playoffs, and they always had great records.
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          • cdubdiggity
            MVP
            • May 2003
            • 1204

            #6
            Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

            Cavs were kinda soft...But im really too young to remember.

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            • Kruza
              Mainstream Outlaw
              • Jul 2002
              • 6285

              #7
              Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

              Nope. If the Bulls didn't dominate the 90s decade, the Pistons and Knicks would be duking it out for Eastern Conference Supremacy in the early '90s, then the Magic, Pacers and Heat would be fighting it out in the late '90s. The Cavs would be a team that would be in the mix throughout, yet a notch below title contenders.

              Kruza

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              • TheMatrix31
                RF
                • Jul 2002
                • 52929

                #8
                Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                Is this just pertaining to the East? Cuz I'm sure the Sonics, Rockets, Suns, Spurs, and Jazz would all have something to say about the "Team of the 90's" discussion.

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                • 23
                  yellow
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 66469

                  #9
                  Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                  I remember vaguely MJ calling the entire team "CREAM PUFFS", coach and all (Lenny Wilkens), and instead of responding with fire, they'd do interviews (Lenny) saying things like I dont know why he's calling us cream puffs, and MJ's walking board Craig Ehlo, responding to a question about MJ telling him YOU CANT GUARD ME, he says " Why is he saying this stuff to me" (in a scared type tone)

                  Once MJ hit that shot, the Cavs were the Bulls punks for years. Even with the so called jordan stopper gerald wilkins, he couldnt come through on his promise.

                  They played well together, but did lack that toughness they needed at the time. May be if they were in tact today, they could be something, but not when the L allowed hand checks and much more contact than it does now.

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                  • bjf1377
                    Lurker
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 6620

                    #10
                    Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                    Like I've said in many threads, Cleveland is cursed. Had Jodan missed that shot and had Harper not been traded, something else horrible would have happened. Mark Price probably would have been kidnapped by Columbian rebels somehow.

                    And as young as I am in comparison, it still pains me everytime I see that damn classic shot over Ehlo.

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                    • nofearsp2007
                      Banned
                      • Feb 2005
                      • 2432

                      #11
                      Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                      The Shot ruined it for Cleveland. It was my favorite buzzer beater of all time.

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                      • ExtremeGamer
                        Extra Life 11/3/18
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 35299

                        #12
                        Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                        Originally posted by bjf1377
                        Like I've said in many threads, Cleveland is cursed. Had Jodan missed that shot and had Harper not been traded, something else horrible would have happened. Mark Price probably would have been kidnapped by Columbian rebels somehow.

                        And as young as I am in comparison, it still pains me everytime I see that damn classic shot over Ehlo.
                        Ahh, if anyone went to Jim Rome when he was in Cleveland last year, you would have heard that the shot wasn't Ehlo's fault, Nance was supposed to be guarding him and messed up on the in bounds pass. Funny.

                        On another note, Jordan in many interviews I've seen always said he loved playing against Craig Ehlo, even calling him one of the toughest guys ever to play D on him.

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                        • 23
                          yellow
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 66469

                          #13
                          Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                          Originally posted by ExtremeGamer
                          Ahh, if anyone went to Jim Rome when he was in Cleveland last year, you would have heard that the shot wasn't Ehlo's fault, Nance was supposed to be guarding him and messed up on the in bounds pass. Funny.

                          On another note, Jordan in many interviews I've seen always said he loved playing against Craig Ehlo, even calling him one of the toughest guys ever to play D on him.


                          There were 3 guys draped on MJ at that time. Count it 1, 2, 3.

                          Everyone knew he was going to get the ball. There was simply nothing else they could do.

                          Also I dont remember MJ calling Ehlo one of his toughest defenders. I remember him giving Joe Dumars that title, but that's about it. Ehlo got abused far too much.

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                          • Shaver
                            Legend
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 10148

                            #14
                            Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                            If Dumars had a better personality (instead of the ultra quiet, well-mannered Louisiana boy that he was), Dumars/Jordan could have been marketed in the late 80's/90's like Magic/Bird. Those matchups were CLASSIC! Not only did Joe D play solid D on Mike (which very few at the time were), but he could actually get his shot on Mike too. Those were great games!
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                            • poster
                              All Star
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 7506

                              #15
                              Re: If it wasn't for MJ and the Bulls, would the Cavs have been the team of the 90's?

                              Originally posted by Clay_OS
                              If Dumars had a better personality (instead of the ultra quiet, well-mannered Louisiana boy that he was), Dumars/Jordan could have been marketed in the late 80's/90's like Magic/Bird. Those matchups were CLASSIC! Not only did Joe D play solid D on Mike (which very few at the time were), but he could actually get his shot on Mike too. Those were great games!
                              Oh the memories, those were great times. Cleveland was good back then but I dont know about the team of the 90's, maybe it would have been Houston? Too hard to tell, but speculation is ok.

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