SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

**HatTrick** · 11-20-2002, 02:25 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

I don't think you're making a valid point when you say that Kobe is showing that he can't lead a team to the playoffs. The Lakers aren't a complete team without Shaq so that's not a fair statement to make. In fact, they suck without him, and no player could lead this particular group of guys to the postseason by himself.

If you put Kobe on a team where a huge chunk of the salary cap isn't being used by Shaq but instead one or two very good players (i.e. Pippen or Kukoc), then he could definitely take that team to the playoffs. But to say that Kobe is showing that he can't lead a team because Shaq is out is just silly.

Sorry, I hope this doesn't start another Kobe debate, but I gotta defend my favorite player. And I do agree with you that Shaq is probably enjoying this a little bit though.

**Whaaaazuuuuup** · 11-20-2002, 02:35 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

my point is he's not showing any leadership. you don't see him talking t the refs about a bogus call made on his teammate (only when he's involved) or getting these guy to do what has gotten them the 3 rings, runnig the Tri-Offense. instead, he's takeing poor shots and complaining about not getting fouls. has anyone noticed kobe doesn't get that "SuperStar Call" MJ, and Bird use to get...

**Mangum** · 11-20-2002, 02:38 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

You think if SHAQ comes back and the Lakers reach the finals again... You think he'd be a shoe in to win league MVP?

**ShaKobe** · 11-20-2002, 02:39 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Ahhhh. . . so many kobe threads.

Here is what I think. Kobe Bryant is an extremely talented and gifted player. At this point in time, it is pretty clear that he can't lead this team anywhere. Whether it's because of injuries or not, he just isn't getting it done. He is putting up great numbers all around, but the team isn't doing any better. Not talking to teammates because they don't block out or getting really angry at them doesn't help the situation either.

Now I don't know what else they need, but obviously, what they have been doing isn't working. A 3-8 record speaks for itself. Hopefully, when Shaq gets back this friday, he can right the ship, pick everyones head up, and Kobe will finally recognize who the MAN is.

I still see them winning it all, just cause no team can deal with Shaq AND Kobe at the same time.

**Graphik** · 11-20-2002, 02:58 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

The Bulls will beat em. Eddie Curry will step on Shaqs big toe and knock him out for 3 more months. lol
Jokes aside, doyou think shaq will ever be 100% again?

**Kobe008** · 11-20-2002, 03:16 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Anyone who thinks Kobe could not lead a team to a championship doesn't know anything about the Lakers. The Lakers are built around Shaq. Take him away and the team will struggle. Put Kobe on a team by himself and build the team around him and I bet it wins a championship.

**ShaKobe** · 11-20-2002, 03:23 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Quite possibly, but he isn't displaying it right now. And I do know the Lakers. Have lived in LA all my life and have watched them for almost as long. I used to think that Kobe was the best 2 in the L, but it is clear to me now that TMac just murders everyone. Kobe is a very close 2nd. This isn't bandwagon or anything, I'm just telling it as it is. I judge on performance.

**DONOTDELETE** · 11-20-2002, 03:32 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Hold on a second. They traded away Lindsey Hunter, who actually helped Kobe when Shaq was out. THey bring in Kareem Rush, who they think can play be playing back up SG. They brought in Jannero Pargo, a Rookie to play backup pg.

They now have Kareem Rush, sitting the bench a lot. Shaquille O'neal has no real "Center" as a backup, but who, in this league, really has one.

Let me just put it this way, the Prowness and domination of Shaq and Kobe throughout the years, has jaded the fact the Lakers never really have had a solid team.

Shaq is, really, just that good. Botton line.

Shaq hit his peak 3 years ago, had a 3 year domination period, Kobe was coming into his own.

It's all about time, and it was the Lakers time to win in 2000,2001, and 2002. I think their time has expired.

Shaq's climbing down that hillside. His "peak" is no longer unstoppable, if you get my drift.

**Will** · 11-20-2002, 03:54 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Please, oh please Lakers fans tell me how this offense is built around Shaq. What offensive plays are designed for him? The push-his-way-back-under-the-hoop-and-receive-the-pass play? How does that hinder an offense being run for the other four guys when they're not passing it to Shaq under the hoop?

Either Kobe isn't as good as he's heralded or Phil Jackson isn't as good as he's heralded. That's the only reason for their play. You guys can pick one.

**moddinator** · 11-20-2002, 04:20 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

i would like to say first off i hate kobe bryant hes just to lame he tries to hard especially when he had on that throwback mitchell and ness jersey then he thinks he can rap please hes garbage t-macs better, the only player i like on the lakers is shaq (the biggest reason he stole on kobe) im waitin for shaq to get back for kobe to take 47 shots again and shaq gives him another mouthshot thats what im waitin for!!!!

p.s. hat trick, you said nobody can lead the lakers with the team they have what about when iverson with the sixers before vanhorn or tmac before hill, or a person named micheal jordan anybody know who was even on his team before scottie

**SteelerForLife** · 11-20-2002, 04:41 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

I've read these posts bashing Kobe for weeks now and I really fail to understand some of the reasoning that goes on with this. Now, I'll admit, I'm a lifelong Lakers fan (i.e. an "ol' school" Magic, Byron, Worthy, Cooper, Kareem fan) so I maybe a little biased. But my question is: given the current makeup of the team, what more could Kobe do? When he scores 45, the critics say he's being selfish. When he involves his teammates and drops 10 dimes and rebounds and ends up with a triple-double, he's accused of playing for stats. What else is there? And the argument that the Lakers aren't built around Shaq is just laughable. Of course the Lakers are built around Shaq. When Shaq arrived from Orlando, Kobe was still a fresh-out-of-homeroom, talented-but-unproven bundle of "potential." Immediately, Kobe became the Pippen to Shaq's Jordan role and the team drafted and signed personnel accordingly. When Phil Jackson stepped in, he kept the triangle offense (and Tex Winters) because it capitalized on the one thing Phil knew he had going in: a post player with good court vision and solid passing skills.
That's what the triangle offense is: a post game with defined perimeter motion. In Chicago, Jordan and Pippen could play the role in the post initiating the offensive set because, at the time, they often towered over the players guarding them at the time. They were both excellent passers and both made good decisions from the post. That why it worked so well.
For the past five years, Shaq has played that role in LA alone. In the half-court set, the ball goes in to him and he either draws the double-team and makes the pass or takes the ball to the rack in single coverage. That's what the Lakers have been built for. Now, when you remove Shaq from the picture, who fills that post role? None of the bench players have the vision and decision-making skills to do it. Horry and Fox don't command enough respect in the post and Kobe has never been a post player. The result? The offense collapses. Shaq is the one player that the triangle system can't afford to do without and it shows. That's not Kobe's fault (in fact, it's got to be the reason he hates it so much).
Kobe overrated? Please... Put him in Orlando's up-tempo, motion-heavy offense, and he duplicates what TMac's doing now. Put him in Philly's one-man show, and he averages 35 per. Put him in a system built for a non-existent (for now) post player with a supporting cast who can't throw a shot in the ocean consistently, you get a squad batting .200. Simple...

**Whaaaazuuuuup** · 11-20-2002, 04:50 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

...

23 · 11-20-2002, 04:56 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

I honestly think this all comes from the Kobe is the next Michael , Kobe is better than Michael at this age comparison. If he can't carry this team without Shaq, he's gonna take the heat for not peforming like Mike has, and the attitude he had didn't help either. i think also while you're the champ people are giong to come after you, and if they see a weak spot, it's going to be hit and hit hard.

**HatTrick** · 11-20-2002, 05:14 PM

Re: SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

Nicely put SteelerForLife. I certainly couldn't have said it better myself, even though I've tried in the past.

SHAQ IS ENJOYING THIS.....

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