What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

[23]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

Please guys, no more posts like the above post. One more and we can lock this one.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

chill out kdre. no need to lock a thread because of silly little comments like mine. you guys are a bit uptight around here.

[23]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

Im chill. Thing is this thread was started to bait people in the 1st place, and I could've just locked it. for that reason alone. Lets not take it down the stupid road. Not necessarily your post alone, but that kind of stuff just attracts the worst in some people.

[Dynasty4Kobe]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

Kobe Bryant has a game very similar to that of Michael Jordan's. Don't take this meaning the wrong way and think that I said Kobe's game is as good as MJ's. I didn't say that. I said that their games are comparable in style at times, not comparable in effectiveness. MJ is a much more dominant player. The difference between Kobe and MJ is that Kobe shows that dominance in spurts or in sporadic periods. MJ showed that dominance ALL THE TIME.

You will see Kobe occasionally have that dominant out break, such as that 62 point performance, a couple other 50+ points in 3 quarters, 40 point streaks, super-human 4th quarter performances, etc. But with Jordan, that's how we was for a more consistent amount of time.

That's the difference that I see.

[HMcCoy]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

For the original poster..if this was thread was honestly meant to be about fact-finding, and not flame-baiting...here's a pretty good read from a guy who coached both:

Cleamons compares Kobe, MJ
Story Tools: Print Email
Sam Kellerman / Special to FOXSports.com
Posted: 1 day ago

In the wake of the epic transformation of the Lakers, I sat down with Jim Cleamons, who was Phil Jackson's assistant coach for this entire L.A. dynasty.

Cleamons was also Phil's assistant coach for four of the Bulls championships in the '90s, including their second three-peat.
In the first-part of a three-part series, I asked Cleamons about Kobe Bryant, now the Laker's lone superstar, and how he stacks up to Michael Jordan. In part II, we talked about the Shaq trade and the future of the Lakers. In the final installment, we talked about why Cleamons was curiously not even considered for the job of Lakers head coach upon Phil Jackson's departure.

SAM KELLERMAN: The pendulum seems to swing back and forth on the Kobe versus MJ question. After Game 2 against the Pistons, a lot of people were saying that Kobe's as good or better than Jordan. Three games later, few people still believed that.

You actually helped coached both of them to three-peats. You're one of the very few people who is qualified to answer this question. So I'm asking you, point blank. Who's better, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant?

JIM CLEAMONS: (After a 23-second silence.) Tough question.

In every generation you have a special superstar. In my day, growing up, Elgin Baylor was the joint. Kids in my neighborhood wanted to be Elgin Baylor. He brought it. Double-clutched, hung in the air, flipped something off the glass. In Michael's generation, it was Michael. In this generation it's Kobe Bryant.

I wouldn't know which one is the better player between Kobe and Michael.

Michael had a special IQ for the game of basketball. He accepted coaching, and that's part of his greatness. He accepts the chain of command. Even though he may not agree with it, he'll go out and do his best to try and make sure he gets the job done.

You see Michael thinking about what he needs to do to win the game. His mind is working, it's churning. He's calculating where the double teams are going to come from. He understands how to get rid of the basketball, how he's going to get the ball back. So he's thinking the game right along with you as a coach.

He didn't mind sharing the ball. Sometimes he didn't trust his teammates, early on. But in my first season with the Bulls, Michael had that game in the finals when he kept finding Paxon for like eight straight jumpshots. That was the game Michael finally became the Michael Jordan who is now revered. He trusted Pax, Pax came through for him. And from that point on, he trusted his teammates.

Now, on that road to trusting them, there were times when people said, 'Why doesn't he pass the ball?' Well, hell, they always threw it back to him anyway. He was our bail-out guy. Let's face it -- they threw him the ball in the worst predicaments. He accepted it. That's what superstars do. They say, Fine, I'll give you the basketball early enough in the clock so if you can't do anything with it, I know that you'll whip the ball back to me and I can take the bail-out shots. And I have to get accustomed to taking shots with guys hanging all over me.

SK: Does Kobe play team ball?

JC: Every year, during the regular season, people say things about Kobe. But come playoff time, it's winning time, and Kobe submits to the game plan to win championships. Oh, yeah.

SK: But it sounded like in praising Jordan for his coachability, there was an insinuation that Kobe lacks that.

JC: Kobe's going to learn that. Kobe's bright, one of the smartest. He's going to learn. Half of the stuff he does, he's testing himself. He's testing who he is as a player. Kobe's still 25 years old. Like we used to say in the neighborhood, he's still smelling his piss. Kobe wants to put more notches on his gun. And the notches are going to come.

But you have to learn to say, 'My big guy, I've got to get something out of you, you don't need to be fresh at the end of the game, your [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] should be as tired as the other guys. If I know that you're not getting enough touches, and we need you to score -- I'm getting you the ball.'

'And if you're up against a good defensive center tonight, and he likes to knock your stuff back in, and you haven't learned to score on this guy, then this time I'm not looking for you against the starter. But against the second team guy, I'm going to give you your touches then.'

SK: We saw the importance of offensive rebounding in the Pistons' defeat of the Lakers. Between Jordan and Kobe, who is the better offensive rebounder?

JC: Michael.

SK: Who is the better ball handler?

JC: Kobe.

SK: Who is the better playmaker?

JC: Michael wasn't the best passer, but he saw the court. When you talk about players, you have top of the floor players and beneath the floor players. Michael is a great beneath the floor player. Kobe is better initiating, coming from the top and making a pass. Michael isn't the ultimate point guard. We deferred to Scottie to bring the ball up. Scottie was just more fluid with the basketball, it was easier for him to do.

But if you get Michael the ball down there, he'll just kick your butt. Michael was our best post player.

SK: Is Michael stronger than Kobe?

JC: Yes. Oh, yes.

SK: Who has better hops, Michael or Kobe?

JC: In Michael's heyday, I'd go with him.

SK: What about footspeed? Up and down the court, who's faster, MJ or Kobe?

JC: Kobe's very athletic. Kobe might win that. But it would be by a nose.

SK: Overall athleticism?



"In every generation you have a special superstar. In my day, growing up, Elgin Baylor was the joint. ... In Michael's generation, it was Michael. In this generation it's Kobe Bryant."


— Jim Cleamons

JC: It's a coin flip. On any given day, one's going to have his way. The next day the other is going to come right back at you.

SK: Who has the better jumpshot?

JC: Michael has the better jumpshot because he took better percentage shots. Kobe has a nice shot, but he takes tough shots. If you take tough shots, your percentage isn't going to be as good. It's not degree of difficulty. Why break your neck? It's not a 2.5 or a 2.9. It's two points.

Michael had a way of just freeing himself. He was great at using his upper body strength, and people respected his first step and his spins. He always knew how to use his body to protect himself.

I remember Kobe came out two years ago with all these muscles, his arms, he had the guns. He didn't have that last year. He lost a lot of his definition.

SK: Wasn't that because of his two offseason surgeries?

JC: Yes. And he'll recapture all his tools and skills.

SK: Who's the better defender?

JC: Michael understood our schemes a lot better. I say that knowing that Kobe's been all-defensive first team three times, and that's testimony to his defense.

Michael and Scottie were terrific at understanding when to rotate and how to rotate. That team understood. Out here, I'm not sure our team did. When we had Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, Kobe really fit into that.

In Chicago, that's why we won. We had great offensive players, but we won because Scottie and Michael and Dennis Rodman -- we could shut teams down. You're talking about Bill Cartwright, John Paxson, Cliff Livingston. When we started rolling, we could just shut teams down for five or six possessions in a row.

In the pro game, your defense has to be two possessions better than your opponent. The average pro game is decided by 3.5 points. Two possessions. You've got to stop them twice, you've got to score twice.

SK: Do you think Kobe has a chance to end his career with a legacy greater than Michael Jordan's?

JC: Sure. Oh, yeah. He's accomplished more already. At 25, Michael hadn't even won his first title.

Sam Kellerman is a contributor to FOXSports.com. In the next installment of the interview, he discusses the Shaquille O'Neal trade, Kobe Bryant's new role with the Lakers and the team's future.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

difference is, MJ makes people around him better. kobe will yell and make the players feel like crap and they won't play right.

probably a respect issue

Ive seen it too many times with kwame for it to be a coincidence. then again, is it even fair to judge that off of Kwame? He gets shook by everyone, including the man we're comparing kobe to.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

difference is, MJ makes people around him better. kobe will yell and make the players feel like crap and they won't play right.

probably a respect issue

Ive seen it too many times with kwame for it to be a coincidence. then again, is it even fair to judge that off of Kwame? He gets shook by everyone, including the man we're comparing kobe to.

lmao. what about bill cartright and the before mentioned kwame brown. im pretty sure there was more than just cartwright too, i just can't remember at the moment.

[Beantown]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

A great player is feared. That's the difference. A superstar is respected, but not feared. I don't believe the skill level is the difference, but when fear is put into the other player's mind before tip off, that's the difference.

I liked that.

[glucklich]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

When Jordan was Kobes age, I think Jordan was more athletic than Kobe. Kobe has tried to mimic a lot of Jordans game, things like absorbing contact in the lane and getting the shot off and having a feel around the basket. Plus, when Jordan first entered the league his first step was unbelievable. Another difference between Jordan and Kobe is the Pistons. The style of play Detroit won with in 1989-1990 evolved as a way to deal with Jordan...so in a certain sense Jordan has a hand in 2 more Championships. No team today has a style of play geared around stopping one person like the Pistons did back in the day (the closest thing was Shaq). It should also be said that it didnt really stop Jordan...it just made him work harder.

[Djagloi]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

Im chill. Thing is this thread was started to bait people in the 1st place, and I could've just locked it. for that reason alone. Lets not take it down the stupid road. Not necessarily your post alone, but that kind of stuff just attracts the worst in some people.

Because you are a moderator, I will try to remain respectful. I've been at this site for YEARS (you just don't recognize me) and I know what it's all about. I started this thread because Kobe just came off his 62 point performance and I wanted to see what everyone thought after seeing that. This is NO WAY was meant to start a flame war. As a mod, you should give the posters you don't know the benefit of the doubt and not jump to unwarranted accusations or conclusions.

If anything, it was a MOD who commenced the flaming, not anyone else.

[23]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

Because you are a moderator, I will try to remain respectful. I've been at this site for YEARS (you just don't recognize me) and I know what it's all about. I started this thread because Kobe just came off his 62 point performance and I wanted to see what everyone thought after seeing that. This is NO WAY was meant to start a flame war. As a mod, you should give the posters you don't know the benefit of the doubt and not jump to unwarranted accusations or conclusions.

If anything, it was a MOD who commenced the flaming, not anyone else.

Let me help you. The Lakers have lost 2 games since then. Thus the subject is old now, and the search function would help you immensely

http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...=154153&page=3


As far as asssuming i dont recognize someone is rather jumping to conclusion. I dont just post before I think, I knew who you were when i posted, and it wasnt about giving you the benefit of the doubt, rather, the thread turning into a bashfest.

Im thinking about this forum, not just YOU. There was a reason a couple of posters jumped in early and asked that the thread get locked. This has happened far too many times before.

You already know the history on this subject in this forum, which always leads to disaster, and the yearly Kobe sticky

[nkhera1]

Re: What are the real differences between MJ and Kobe?

difference is, MJ makes people around him better. kobe will yell and make the players feel like crap and they won't play right.

probably a respect issue

Ive seen it too many times with kwame for it to be a coincidence. then again, is it even fair to judge that off of Kwame? He gets shook by everyone, including the man we're comparing kobe to.

I love Jordan but I heard that he once punched a teammate. I think there is a big part of Jordan we don't know but I think MJ is on another level above players like Kobe.