A different NBA 2K3 perspective...

[Court_vision]

I had the good fortune of getting NBA 2K3 at the beginning of this week.(Slum dog...my contact came back a few days early! It's worth the wait mate!) I already played ID2003 a short season and really enjoyed it. The AI is extremely good. However, the atmosphere is terrible...and it's too early in the season for me to have simply given up on my annual NBA b-ball season.

I gave NBA Live 2003 about 15 games and I just can't like it. It's fun, but it's way, way too arcadish. Even after edits, it's just got too many flaws. I've played Live since Lakers v Celtics...and the holes in it are huge, even after all these years. For those of you who have come on board after LIVE 2002, I am sure you have a different perspective as you'd only see improvements. However, if you've been around for the whole trip...you'd know what I mean.

One arena killed it instantly for me. 2003 and still no real stadiums? I want to feel like I am playing in MSG or the Staples center...maybe that's just me, but it's at the top of my "must have" features in an NBA game.

I played 2K1 extensively and loved it. Due to travelling for about 6 months of 2002, I hardly got time to play any NBA games last year. I did play some 2K2 and Live 2002 with friends on the road...but not a full season. I played a late ID2002 season though and enjoyed that.

So, for me anyway, 2K3 is still very difficult and very fresh. Thus, I come from that perspective. Again, if you played 100 + games of 2K2 and now 2K3 is too easy, I can understand that.

Firstly, I played two exhibition games and then went straight to ARENA's sliders. I then played a few more games and really enjoyed how it played. I then set up editing for about an hour. All franchise players OA's up to high 90's...pass first PG's down (Andre Millers was higher than Iverson's...why???????!!)...increased dunk ratings for some (Carter was 85...why????) and more.

15 games into my season (it's been a great week ) and the following things stand out:

The AI is not as bad as I'd feared. It's nowhere near the level of ID2003, but in a way it's more akin to the actual NBA. There is a lot of isolation play and a lot of shooting of screens. If you watch the NBA, you'll know this is how many games are. The game is slower and more drawn out, but hey...how many NBA games aren't slow and drawn out?

In my mind, ID2003 is much more like international basketball...where guys swing the ball from side to side and free men shoot instantly when catching etc...it's how most coaches WISH the game would be played. I am not sure it's how most NBA teams play though. Overall though, ID2003 is superior in the AI department.

Secondly, the stadiums and atmosphere is AMAZING. It's just seriously cool to go to MSG and hear the organ music every time the Knicks bring the ball up. I LOVE THIS. All the music is completely real. Very cool. The stadiums themselves are the best of any b-ball game by a LONG way. I love ID2003's stadium detail, but these are miles better.

You actually feel like you're in an NBA season. For the first time ever in years of NBA gaming, I actually look at the schedule and think "Sonics away next up...can' wait to visit that arena" or see the Staples center appear for the first time and just go "wow!"

The crowds in this game also are very cool. Amazingly loud...and quiet as a mouse when you lose. Brilliant. ID2003 really needs to get this right.

Smaller issues...I read so many posts where guys lamented that the AI players won't throw it down from close range etc. Yes...I have seen this a couple of times, but 80% of the time I have had guys HAMMER it down. (The rim sounds are great!)
I can only guess this is because of the fact I went straight to sliders and edits because there's no problem.

The ESPN presentation adds a tonne of atmosphere and I LOVE the in game score updates and nightly wrap up's.

Negatives...how did they release this game with two VERY clear bugs still in the game. ONE = The PG brings the ball up, passes to the PF / C in his own court, he returns it, back again the same...buzz...8 seconds are up and they haven't crossed the half court...AI gives ball up...arghhhh....this happens two times a game. VERY poor.

Two...what the hells up with the bug where the AI guy just chucks the ball up in the air!!!!!!! VERYYYYYYY poor.

Luckily, I haven't had either of those things happen deep into a fouth quarter, but that will seriously piss me off if it happens at a crucial moment.

Overall, I thought I'd post this as I come from the perspective of a guy who has got NBA 2K3 LAST. Most of you seem to have bought it first and then gone off to ID or Live as a second option. That way you only see their positives compared to the flaws in 2K3.

I come from the angle of seeing their flaws...and enjoying what 2K3 has to offer.

All up, it is the best simulation of the NBA by a long way IMO.

Having said that it's dissapointing that, once again, ALL three games have flaws again this year. Hopefully 2004 will fix that...but I have played enough years now to remain less than optimistic we will ever get the perfect b-ball game...

[neovsmatrix]

Re: A different NBA 2K3 perspective...

My problem with NBA 2k3 isn't on the offensive side of the ball so much as the defensive side of the ball. That's where ID 2003 gets it right, IMHO. Although ID 2003 needs a few improvements on that side as well, by making it harder to penetrate against better defenders, and having people sacrifice their bodies against dunks and layups with the resulting charging and blocking fouls called (this is where NBA 2k3 gets it right, at least somewhat). NBA 2k3 is still fun, and it does represent a realistic b-ball game as far as presentation and the offense goes, but the defense and ball physics need work. If you poke a bal away from an offensive player in NBA 2k3, the ball won't travel far, and you can easily get it. Hell, a lot of times it'll just stick to the defender's hands. In ID 2003 the ball actually feels like it's poked away and you have to chase it down to actually get the ball. The hand and ball collision isn't very good in NBA 2k3 but it's good in ID 2003. The defense in NBA 2k3 needs to be more aggressive at stealing the ball, and players need to double team good offensive players, and trap the ballhandler. These things happen in the NBA and ID 2003 gets that.

On a side note, I really wish now that ID 2003 included dunk/layup sliders because they really are too much, like someone said. I don't want to see chris childs throwing it down, and I've seen that happen at least 3-4 times already. As far as I know, Chris Childs does not dunk. I don't like how every player can finish incredibly well around the basket. There are good finishers and there are bad ones. There should be a distinction between them. NBA 2k3 finally got that right, so I hope ID 2003 does as well. Although I do see games where players miss a ton of layups, that's seemingly independent of the player's abilities.

[Court_vision]

Re: A different NBA 2K3 perspective...

Hi Neo

I agree with much that you say. Re the ball sticking, I have found 2K3 a bit more realistic. Maybe it's too early for me to say though. I find in 2K3 the AI knocks a lot of my passes down etc and out of bounds...whearas in ID2003 the AI always seem to catch it like a baseball outfielder

You are tight about the dunks in ID2003, they are a bit too frequent from the wrong guys...you can edit the individual players to prevent this though.

The defensive collisions you mentioned is a good point. What I noticed though in ID2003 is that I could offensively turbo into a defender...and never get called for charging. Try it with a PG and just run into a C and bounce off him as many times as you like.That's with fouls on max.

Conversely, using arena's 2K3 settings, I have plenty of charging fouls called in 2K3.

Both games have a lot of lay up misses I have noticed. I think that must be a fatigue thing possibly? I noticed using big guys in ID2003 they'd be 5 from 7 early and then 7 from 15 etc. (Guys like Duncan could maintain it) I think that's realistic.

It will be really interesting to see which way ID2003 goes next year as they have so many SIM aspects right, but have a few arcade type things still in there (Childs dunking etc, too many blocks) and those things feel out of place when they occur.

All up, 2K3 is my game of choice...but ID will get time also on the X-Box.

Next year though, I am going with one game and one game only...honestly!...as playing multiple NBA games just seems to make me see the flaws in each one too much.