Wince Harder

**sroz39** · 01-28-2007, 12:05 PM

Re: Wince Harder

It depends what time period he's referring to, to be fair. The early VC years were special here in Toronto. Each game was a big event. The last few? Not so much. He bailed on the team too quickly at times (as Nets fans are finding out) and the most maddening part about it is that him complaining about the state of the team the last couple of years misses the big picture. That being that his lack of commitment on the defensive end and lack of desire to go to the basket on the offensive end were the two biggest problems this team had.

Don't ask me why, but he's still my favourite player in the NBA. However I'm not blind to his flaws. IMO, though, he made basketball a very important thing around these parts when he was here and accelerated the growth of what is now a pretty sizeable hardcore fan base. For obvious reasons, he won't get the credit for that around here while he's in the league, but I would hope when he retires, people here would be willing to look past his departure and appreciate what he did do.

**Rocky** · 01-28-2007, 12:12 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Eh, a Toronto paper.....and I don't think any of those teams offered those players for Carter straight up(I pretty much know Seattle didn't).

**WTF** · 01-28-2007, 12:19 PM

Re: Wince Harder

What on earth? He isn't bailing on New Jersey. This guy is coming to play every game. He put up 40 last night on a sprained ankle, and took a pretty nasty spill again, but he played through it.

But, whatever. Some people have kept their opinion of him, and won't see what he's bringing to the table night in, and night out. He's not the same player he once was in Toronto, but he's a far piece from being the same guy from his final year in Toronto. He's coming to play. I'd LOVE to see the Nets hang on to him, and resign him... but don't see it happening.

And sroz, VC is still one of my favorite's in the game as well.

**Vince** · 01-28-2007, 12:45 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by Rocky

Eh, a Toronto paper.....and I don't think any of those teams offered those players for Carter straight up(I pretty much know Seattle didn't).

Yeah because we all know Rocky from OS has all the sources and hookups in relation to NBA happenings...

But, whatever. Some people have kept their opinion of him, and won't see what he's bringing to the table night in, and night out.

Tell that to Nets fans.

**Kashanova** · 01-28-2007, 12:48 PM

Re: Wince Harder

vince get over it man he's been balling and not only balling but with heart i got the yes network i see all the games btw

**Vince** · 01-28-2007, 12:53 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by Kashanova

vince get over it man he's been balling and not only balling but with heart i got the yes network i see all the games btw

I go with what I read from Nets fans and most want him gone. Most of them have said that the offense looks like what it was during their championship years when he's not on the floor. From the games I've seen, he plays the way he did like when he was in T.O. Lazy and shying away from content.

**WTF** · 01-28-2007, 12:58 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Shying away from content? What on earth?

Vince has been taking it hard to the hole, drawing fouls. Granted, on occassions, he does still settle for the outside shot, but for the most part, he's been pretty aggressive.

I don't read what Net's fans have to say about him, but from what I watch of him, which is mosts games, I love the level of play that he's bringing.

**BigTigLSU** · 01-28-2007, 01:01 PM

Re: Wince Harder

The Nets fans want a scapegoat.... for the under achieving but its not hard to see why they arent as good as they thought they would be and it aint Kidd's divorce, VC's attitude, its inconsistency of the team as a whole. Some of it is due to injury while another part is the coaching on Frank who has admitted of out himself out of victories

**Vince** · 01-28-2007, 01:03 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by WTF

Shying away from content? What on earth?

Vince has been taking it hard to the hole, drawing fouls. Granted, on occassions, he does still settle for the outside shot, but for the most part, he's been pretty aggressive.

I don't read what Net's fans have to say about him, but from what I watch of him, which is mosts games, I love the level of play that he's bringing.

you know what i meant.

**sroz39** · 01-28-2007, 01:08 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by WTF

What on earth? He isn't bailing on New Jersey. This guy is coming to play every game. He put up 40 last night on a sprained ankle, and took a pretty nasty spill again, but he played through it.

But, whatever. Some people have kept their opinion of him, and won't see what he's bringing to the table night in, and night out. He's not the same player he once was in Toronto, but he's a far piece from being the same guy from his final year in Toronto. He's coming to play. I'd LOVE to see the Nets hang on to him, and resign him... but don't see it happening.

And sroz, VC is still one of my favorite's in the game as well.

And to add to that, I won't hold it against him for bailing on a franchise that seemingly was in a tail spin. In fact, in hindsight, the hiring of Rob Babcock, which was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, was a huge mistake that if not for Brian Colangelo this franchise would still be recovering from that hire.

I just found it ironic with Vince (and the only thing I hold against him) is that in his pursuit of becoming a more rounded player and not just a "dunker", he became a one dimensional player. If he stayed committed to going to the basket, like in his first few seasons in Toronto, and developed the jump shot he has now, he would be viewed in a different light here and in the NBA. His defence was sporadic from Day One. But his offence, though better stat-wise, became worse when it came to results for the team.

I still think about the possibilities of a core that would have had Vince and T-Mac. But in both cases, they left Toronto for selfish reasons and I would argue, tarnished what could have been special careers together. Now they're just individuals who are making big money (they would've anyways), and have achieved very limited success outside of individual accolades.

**WTF** · 01-28-2007, 01:20 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by Vince

you know what i meant.

:y4: Actually, I wasn't putting two and two together. I'm a little slow this morning.

But have you watched any of the games recently? He's been taking the ball to the hold, and hard. He's been finishing around the rim, and playing some really good basketball.

**billmatic** · 01-28-2007, 03:14 PM

Re: Wince Harder

Originally posted by Rocky

Eh, a Toronto paper.....and I don't think any of those teams offered those players for Carter straight up(I pretty much know Seattle didn't).

It's not saying they did, it's saying NJ offered up Carter and they all rejected it.

**SPTO** · 01-28-2007, 03:22 PM

Re: Wince Harder

I can't muster hate for Vince anymore. If he doesn't care what people think of him then why should I invest time in hating the guy?

Seriously, i've now taken to Charles Barkley's opinion of Vince. He's a guy that fills up the stat sheet, gets a lot of points but when it comes to crunch time and it matters the most Vince will invariably come up small. The guy is NOT a leader and he won't take the initiative.

I think the problem that people have with Vince is that he was drafted with the thought that he'd be a franchise guy who can lead a team and show a lot of heart instead he's just a guy that will go with the flow and get his points. In many ways he's a follower not a leader. There's nothing wrong with that but he has surely disappointed those who thought he had more in him.

**dossier** · 01-28-2007, 05:12 PM

Re: Wince Harder

I can tell you right here and right now the two people who are responsible for the Nets losing

1. Lawrence Frank - Last year the Nets were an offensive up tempo sort of like a phoenix suns team but not exactly. Then Lawrence announces in the middle of off season that this year he is going to slow down the tempo of the game and focus on defense and contesting the shot. I remember earlier this year Lawrence got sick or something and someone else had to take charge of that game, they won by 20, both teams in 100 points, everyone on the Nets had a higher FG%, and come on Lawrence you got Jason Kidd running the show, he's gonna succesfully pass it ot Vince Or Richard and they're going to score use your head.

2. Jason Collins - If you have ever watched a Nets game, you will see him standing at the top of the key on offense. What the hell is a 7 footer doing at the top of the key unless they can shoot, and don't tell me " oh he is such a godsend with his defensive awareness, the idiot can block shots, get reobounds, play 1 - on - 1 D, and he leaves people wide open from the arc because he feels a 7 footer should allow a player to get 3 points instead of 2

And to what one guy said, if by leader you mean trying to score alot at crunch time, then I agree even though he has made a couple of game winning shot most notably against Tornto last year, but if you're talking about an overall leader, he shouldn't be it should be Jason Kidd one hundred percent, also he should be dunking more than shooting

side note: has any one notiiced he seems less bulked then last year?

Wince Harder

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