Dawn of a new era?

[Kruza]

With the success the Warriors, Bulls and Suns are having in this year's playoffs, the latest hot topic that's being discussed about the NBA is the changing of the style. That new style, of course, is teams playing and winning with "Small ball." Assembling lineups filled with athletic players of simiar size and length, and running a free-flowing up-tempo offense mostly through high pick-and-rolls and drive-and-kicks.

The Detroit News' Chris McCosky and SI's Ian Thomsen have both posted terrific articles on this subject, going over the current state of this trend along with if they think teams of the future will eventually attempt to copy this style, how some teams will look to counter this style defensively, etc., etc. These articles are well worth the read for all NBA fans.

Small-ball era dawning in NBA

Going small, winning big

Kruza

[MagicBucsWsoxFan]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

edit: nvm, I didnt read the articles.

[23]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

considering that can be stopped with a dominant inside game... and the lack of big men inside with the rule changes, its possible that we are running smack into david sterns vision of perimeter ball

[Jasong7777]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

It definitly makes for more entertaining basketball, but nothing is really going to change until one of these teams win a title.

[Rocky]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

It definitly makes for more entertaining basketball, but nothing is really going to change until one of these teams win a title.

Yep. Last 6 of the last 7 champions

Miami
SA
Detroit
SA
LA
LA
LA
SA

[Kruza]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

considering that can be stopped with a dominant inside game... and the lack of big men inside with the rule changes, its possible that we are running smack into david sterns vision of perimeter ball

Yeah, it certainly seems like it. That European style of basketball (with an overall upgrade in athleticism) is evident watching a few of these NBA teams. And what's unusual about this is that rules are constantly tweaked to help perimeter players score, but no rules have been implemented to help out traditional post players. Check out Stu Jackson's comment about this in Thomsen's article. What's up with that? I woudn't be surprise if there's a underlying league agenda to try and phase out traditional low post play as we know it.

It definitly makes for more entertaining basketball, but nothing is really going to change until one of these teams win a title.

That's exactly what McCosky was saying in his article.

But after looking closely, one could see many teams trying to make that transition now. There are less and less big men who are traditional post players coming in the league. The ball looks to be rolling on the changing of the trend. Teams in general are looking for similar type of athletic swingmen to load their roster with, plus one or maybe two tall guys (6'10" and up) who are athletic and can block/alter shots but lacks a back-to-the-basket game. Plus it seems to be cheaper and easier to build rosters this way since finding athletic swingmen in the draft or free agency are pretty much a dime a dozen as opposed to finding that dominant/skilled big man who has low post skills. I think a league-wide transformation to this style of play will occur quicker if a team happens to win a championship playing this way.

Kruza

[Pointguard]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

Its all irrelevant until someone wins a title (repeated for truth), regardless of whether the article says it or not.

[Dice]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

I think these rule changes is a bunch of B.S. The NBA just hates to admit that the lack of scoring is because players of today are not as fundamentally good as they were back in the day. You got a lot of players today who have all the hops in the world but can't knock down a 15 foot jumper. Most players of today can handle the rock like nobodies buisness BUT can't make a entry pass in the post. Too many guys with gifted individual talent BUT can't make thier team better.

Which brings me to my next point that small ball is the hot thing right now because there are VERY FEW dominate big men. Fifteen years ago you had the Holy Trinity of big men playing in the league at the same time in Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson. You also had a second teir of big men who were not as good as the first three but in today's game they would be top 3. Those centers consisted of guys like Brad Daugherty and Dikembe Mutombo. And it's funny that a guy like Mutombo is still servicable because of the lack of dominate big men BUT if he was in his prime today there would be no question that he's be one of the top centers in the league. Back then he could never crack the top 3 because of Olajuwon, Ewing and Robinson. And Mutombo's chances suffered more with the arrival of Shaq. So going back 14-13 years ago the Holy Trinity became the Fearsome Four with Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson AND O'Neal.

And with the lack of big men today you got guys who are power forwards playing center. Guys like Duncan, Stoudemire and Howard. Duncan could have actually played center if he was groomed as a center when he came up with the Spurs. Unfortunately, he played with Robinson and never got the shot until Robinson retired. And at that time he was comfortable playing PF so a change to full time center didn't make sense.

Think about it. Who are the best 3 true centers in the league today? You'd still have to put 34 year old Shaq in the mix. Add maybe Yao Ming and the 3rd slot is a bunch of PF's playing center. Hopefully with the arrival of Oden he'll start to bring back the true center position. BUT the Bill Walton theory of 'YOU NEED A DOMINATE BIG MAN TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP' is also a bunch of garbage. Dominate big men could help BUT it doesn't ensure you the title. Ask Patrick Ewing.

[SPTO]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

I agree with the general consensus that this is the dawning of a new era BUT one of these new style teams has to win a championship before things really change. I can definitely see the Suns winning it all this year or at least being in the Finals.

The more interesting thing is (I haven't read the articles so don't know if it's been mentioned) what's going to happen when the first euro GM is hired. There's been talk ever since Gherardini (sp?) has been named Colangelo's assistant in Toronto that in a couple years he'll be the first Euro GM in the league. It's a very interesting proposition and one I want to see happen. It may fail but at least its worth a try.

As for the quality of play, i'm not as upset as most of you guys seem to be. The teams cited in the articles are very entertaining teams to watch and I just think some of the hate of eurostyle basketball may be fueled by a touch of xenophobia but I could be totally off on that.

[GSW]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

I think these rule changes is a bunch of B.S. The NBA just hates to admit that the lack of scoring is because players of today are not as fundamentally good as they were back in the day. You got a lot of players today who have all the hops in the world but can't knock down a 15 foot jumper. Most players of today can handle the rock like nobodies buisness BUT can't make a entry pass in the post. Too many guys with gifted individual talent BUT can't make thier team better.

Which brings me to my next point that small ball is the hot thing right now because there are VERY FEW dominate big men. Fifteen years ago you had the Holy Trinity of big men playing in the league at the same time in Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson. You also had a second teir of big men who were not as good as the first three but in today's game they would be top 3. Those centers consisted of guys like Brad Daugherty and Dikembe Mutombo. And it's funny that a guy like Mutombo is still servicable because of the lack of dominate big men BUT if he was in his prime today there would be no question that he's be one of the top centers in the league. Back then he could never crack the top 3 because of Olajuwon, Ewing and Robinson. And Mutombo's chances suffered more with the arrival of Shaq. So going back 14-13 years ago the Holy Trinity became the Fearsome Four with Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson AND O'Neal.

And with the lack of big men today you got guys who are power forwards playing center. Guys like Duncan, Stoudemire and Howard. Duncan could have actually played center if he was groomed as a center when he came up with the Spurs. Unfortunately, he played with Robinson and never got the shot until Robinson retired. And at that time he was comfortable playing PF so a change to full time center didn't make sense.

Think about it. Who are the best 3 true centers in the league today? You'd still have to put 34 year old Shaq in the mix. Add maybe Yao Ming and the 3rd slot is a bunch of PF's playing center. Hopefully with the arrival of Oden he'll start to bring back the true center position. BUT the Bill Walton theory of 'YOU NEED A DOMINATE BIG MAN TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP' is also a bunch of garbage. Dominate big men could help BUT it doesn't ensure you the title. Ask Patrick Ewing.

thats un true.

i challenge you to find me tape of guys 'back in the day' hitting a higher percentage of shots over guys now... the reasons cores were so hgih is because evryone 'back in the day' ran a uptempo game w/ more posessions.

when people get over this fake stigma that guys 'back in the day' were far superior shooters then maybe things will change for the better.

guys now are far superior athletically but in general shooting percentages for teams across the board have not changed much if any

[Dice]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

thats un true.

i challenge you to find me tape of guys 'back in the day' hitting a higher percentage of shots over guys now... the reasons cores were so hgih is because evryone 'back in the day' ran a uptempo game w/ more posessions.

when people get over this fake stigma that guys 'back in the day' were far superior shooters then maybe things will change for the better.

guys now are far superior athletically but in general shooting percentages for teams across the board have not changed much if any

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I guess you haven't seen Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird and a host of other players who would constantly make tough shots. Go to You Tube and find them yourself.

And a number of shots have nothing to do with the shooting percentages. Just face facts, shooting percentages are down.

[Rocky]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I guess you haven't seen Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird and a host of other players who would constantly make tough shots. Go to You Tube and find them yourself.

And a number of shots have nothing to do with the shooting percentages. Just face facts, shooting percentages are down.

I think his point was even guys like Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson would struggle today with the rules. Back in the day, you either had to commit all out to a double team or watch some helpless bum get worked. MUCH different game than today where teams defensive rotations are so advanced and teams can basically play a modified version of triangle-2 on one player.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

"Until you win a championship, the haters will hate. That's just the way it is." - Raja Bell.

[GSW]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I guess you haven't seen Jordan, Olajuwon, Bird and a host of other players who would constantly make tough shots. Go to You Tube and find them yourself.

And a number of shots have nothing to do with the shooting percentages. Just face facts, shooting percentages are down.

and i guess YOU havent seen Michael Redd, Peja Stojakovic, Steve Nash, Kobe, T-mac, Rip Hamilton, (and since you put a center in a jumpshooting debate ill put one too.) Shaq.and a host of other players

Just Face the facts, Your'e wrong.

but dont feel too bad man, everyone puts their foot in thier own mouth sometimes.

Fact of the matter is percentages are NOT down, and 'back in the day' players were not all that much better shooters percentage wise then guys now. So please get off that. and stop using HOF legend players as exmaples because i can do the same thign and give you the same results.

Hallelujah Holla back

Edit:
I was so busy proving you wrong i seemed to look over a little nugget in your comments.

And a number of shots have nothing to do with the shooting percentages.

Wow.

[ZB9]

Re: Dawn of a new era?

i dont see how run and gun teams are just now appearing, and i dont see how run and gun teams are taking over. There have been a lot of successful run and gun teams in the past ten years, but none of them have been able to beat the Spurs or Pistons of the league and win a championship.

as far as the current run and gun teams that are causing so much buzz making people write that those types of teams are going to "take over the league"...the Warriors got a good matchup and are obviously killing Nellie's former team, but watch what happens when the Warriors match up with JVG and the Rockets or Sloan and the Jazz in the second round...and you see how the Nuggets' runnin and gunnin is workin against the Spurs.

Of course, the Suns have the best chance, but overall the current run and gun Suns team of the past 3 seasons isnt much better and hasnt done more than the Nellie run and gun Mavs team for example that won a lot of games but wasnt able to beat the "half court, defensive oriented" championship caliber Spurs or Lakers and was criticized as a paper tiger (of course, these non run and gun Mavs are probably a paper tiger again, but that is a different thread). If the Suns can beat the Spurs this year, then it will be a different story as far as a run and gun team not being such a paper tiger. but until that happens and they actually get over that hump, i dont see how people can say they are taking over the league.