MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own problem

[Real2KInsider]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Btw, I don't necessarily agree with MJ's blanket statement either. The only player he is really referring to is LeBron, and at 24 years of age LeBron is doing just fine for himself, he is leading the league in scoring and putting up gaudy numbers unseen since 80s Jordan. He led his team to the NBA Finals last year.

Magic only got that many rings because the Lakers (who already had Kareem) were giftwrapped the #1 pick thanks to the worst GM in history, a GM so bad the NBA had to significantly change it's trading rules to avoid teams running themselves into the ground. LeBron would have a ring by now too if he were drafted by the Spurs.

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Look, even in the 90's - it wasn't Jordan vs the Knicks! It was the Bulls vs the knicks or the Knicks vs the Pacers. Teams make rivalries, not players. U can't say it was Jordan vs Ewing, or Reggie vs Ewing. Sure individuals are needed to market the NBA but there are so many players today and so many of them are getting in troubles - even the biggest stars. Jordan may have been himself the one who started the individual thing, but he was always part of the Bulls. It was never Michael vs the world, it was the Bulls vs...whatever. The problem today is that many stars get traded and suddenly the 76ers aren't Iverson's anymore. The raptors aren't vince's anymore. If u want to succeed in marketing this league u must stick to something bigger than individuals. And I think that the individual game that sticked to the NBA 7-8 years ago changed to team play. Look at the best teams today: Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Utah, Boston - all of them are teams that play team basketball and the fans know that - and want it. U can't market Phoenix by showing only Amare because every1 knows that without Nash, Marion (before the trade), Hill, Bell etc. - the Suns are not the Suns. Same goes for the Spurs - it's not about Duncan or Ginobili - it's about the team.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Look, even in the 90's - it wasn't Jordan vs the Knicks! It was the Bulls vs the knicks or the Knicks vs the Pacers. Teams make rivalries, not players. U can't say it was Jordan vs Ewing, or Reggie vs Ewing. Sure individuals are needed to market the NBA but there are so many players today and so many of them are getting in troubles - even the biggest stars. Jordan may have been himself the one who started the individual thing, but he was always part of the Bulls. It was never Michael vs the world, it was the Bulls vs...whatever. The problem today is that many stars get traded and suddenly the 76ers aren't Iverson's anymore. The raptors aren't vince's anymore. If u want to succeed in marketing this league u must stick to something bigger than individuals. And I think that the individual game that sticked to the NBA 7-8 years ago changed to team play. Look at the best teams today: Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Utah, Boston - all of them are teams that play team basketball and the fans know that - and want it. U can't market Phoenix by showing only Amare because every1 knows that without Nash, Marion (before the trade), Hill, Bell etc. - the Suns are not the Suns. Same goes for the Spurs - it's not about Duncan or Ginobili - it's about the team.

Well in fairness, it's the players that play the most that make up the identity of the team. Manu Ginobili may not sell tickets by his lonesome, but with Duncan and Parker he does. Take away those two and the Spurs are not marketable. And Jacque Vaughn is a part of the Spurs, but he don't sell tickets, if anything he is the anti-ticket seller.

In some cases the identity of the team is one player, because the teams structure revolves entirely around that one player. For reference, see Cavs/Lebron, or Suns/Nash. In most other cases though, it is the top three players who make up a team's identity, and you have role players who try to fit in with them. Each individual player still has a degree of marketability. There may not be much of a gap between Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, or Vince Carter, but there is no question which of these three is the better draw.

The simple truth is Shaq/Kobe was a better draw than Odom/Kobe ever was. And certainly a better draw than Cedric Ceballos, Nick Van Exel, and Eddie Jones.

Maybe MJ thinks the Jordan comparisons ruined Vince Carter's rep, but it's not just the NBA who is making these comparisons, its the fans too. Dunker and elite scorer from North Carolina. Gee, tough connection to make. Maybe MJ is harping on the Harold Miner's of the world. Comparisons are inevitable in life. Jordan was the first of his kind so you couldn't compare him to anybody, but do you really think Kareem wasn't compared to Wilt back in the 70s?

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Well, it's funny that the Pistons sell tickets - while they don't have even 1 real star.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Well, it's funny that the Pistons sell tickets - while they don't have even 1 real star.

uh, they're good and they've won championships and they'd had star players before.

[jmood88]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Well, it's funny that the Pistons sell tickets - while they don't have even 1 real star.

What's your point?

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

What's your point?

My point it that there are no "individuals" on the Pistons - there's a team. You could even see it in the Allstar game - not 1 Piston but 3.

[jmood88]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

My point it that there are no "individuals" on the Pistons - there's a team. You could even see it in the Allstar game - not 1 Piston but 3.

That still doesn't have much to do with anything. Do you think that the Cavs or Lakers would seel as many tickets if Lebron or Kobe weren't there?

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Has the NBA marketed these players as the "next" or is it a media creation?

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

That still doesn't have much to do with anything. Do you think that the Cavs or Lakers would seel as many tickets if Lebron or Kobe weren't there?

Lakers would sell becuse they have their legacy. As for the Cavs it would surely be harder. I'm not saying u don't need to market some players, but to market the whole NBA as individuals - it's bad, because look what happened when Jordan retired. It took Stern some time to draw the attention back to the NBA.

[Cebby]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Well, it's funny that the Pistons sell tickets - while they don't have even 1 real star.

The Pistons sell tickets because they've been to what, 5 or 6 straight ECFs+ and Detroit cares about basketball. If the Pistons switched teams with the Grizzlies, the Pistons wouldn't sell tickets anymore.

[Vince]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Does Auburn Hills share the same economic problems as the city of Detroit?

How is it the Pistons sell out all their games, yet the Red Wings have somewhere like 1000 empty seats a game.

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

I think there are 2 marketing issues:
1. Marketing the NBA to local residents, who are the most people that buy tickets. I think that the NBA needs to go back to the basics and market each team as something that u can't seperate from its city. You need to make people feel they can identified with the team because it truly represents the city they live in. Of course it's hard to sell tickets when your team is losing, but If people feel that the team represent their city they won't stop buying tickets even in bad seasons. U don't want to see arenas like the Meadowlands when the Nets had bad seasons.

2. Marketing the NBA to the world - Here u need to show more individuals but remember that u don't want to do it too much. If u're marketing intensively, let's say, Kobe, Iverson and Howard - and all three of them are injured for a month - that's a problem. There should be a balance between marketing individuals and marketing teams. And by marketing teams I mean that Stern needs to look at every team and see what seperates it from all other teams, I mean in its style of play. Just like the Suns and Warriors run the entire game, whilst the Pistons (at least 2 yeras ago) play slow and tough D. Another thing that needs to be done, is what the NCAA basketball take pride of: rivalries - just like the NBA had some years ago. Remember those Celtics-Lakers, Bulls-Knicks, Pacers-Knicks, Lakers-Kings etc? Those are excellent examples for marketing.

[jmood88]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

Lakers would sell becuse they have their legacy. As for the Cavs it would surely be harder. I'm not saying u don't need to market some players, but to market the whole NBA as individuals - it's bad, because look what happened when Jordan retired. It took Stern some time to draw the attention back to the NBA.

LA fans are notoriously apathetic, if there wasn't a star there people wouldn't go to the games.

[youvalss]

Re: MJ: David Stern hates when I say this, but in some ways he created his own proble

LA fans are notoriously apathetic, if there wasn't a star there people wouldn't go to the games.

Thast's probably one of the biggest differences between NBA and Euro basketball. In Europe even if the team sucks and have no stars - it can still sell-out every game (though the arenas capacity's lower, but still). I always think (and it's probably something only non-resident would think) that If I had an NBA team in my city and I had the money I would go to every home game, no matter how successful the team is. But u guys, who have NBA in your cities, probably can't understand that.