I really want to like basketball again

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  • J.R. Locke
    Banned
    • Nov 2004
    • 4137

    #31
    Re: I really want to like basketball again

    Originally posted by Cebby
    That if you take the percentage of success and amount of dominant players, high school players have, on average, been much better picks at their spots than college or international players.

    If they were actually concerned about the quality of the players, they'd have required international players to play a year of college ball. They have easily the worst record of busts and over picking of the 3 groups (HS, college, and int), especially when you take the Spurs out.
    To me the whole high school issue is all these "projects" take a roster spot away from a veteren who actually knows how to play the NBA game.

    Obviously these primer high school players are going to have a good track record, just like MacDonald all-americans have a good track record of making it to the NBA verse other recruits the problem is these rookies may not be as good currently as a veteren NBA player.

    Once the NBA installs a real NBA minor league (each team has a farm team) then I think the NBA should do away with the 19 year old age requirement.

    Comment

    • OSUFan_88
      Outback Jesus
      • Jul 2004
      • 25642

      #32
      Re: I really want to like basketball again

      Originally posted by J.R. Locke
      Melo?????
      Bosh???
      Marbury???
      Kevin Love????

      These guys changed their programs.
      Melo? Sure, i'll accept that.

      Bosh? They did pretty good before and after him. He had a pretty good team with him.

      Marbury? He was good, but Georgia Tech was fine after that.

      Kevin Love? Are you serious with this question? UCLA with Ben Howland would have been just fine without Kevin Love last year.
      Last edited by OSUFan_88; 10-16-2008, 12:59 AM. Reason: I am an idiot
      Too Old To Game Club

      Urban Meyer is lol.

      Comment

      • jmood88
        Sean Payton: Retribution
        • Jul 2003
        • 34639

        #33
        Re: I really want to like basketball again

        Originally posted by J.R. Locke
        Melo?????
        Bosh???
        Marbury???
        Kevin Love????

        These guys changed their programs.
        That has nothing to do with what I was saying.
        Originally posted by Blzer
        Let me assure you that I am a huge proponent of size, and it greatly matters. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

        If I went any bigger, it would not have properly fit with my equipment, so I had to optimize. I'm okay with it, but I also know what I'm missing with those five inches. :)

        Comment

        • daflyboys
          Banned
          • May 2003
          • 18238

          #34
          Re: I really want to like basketball again

          To the OP, I know what you mean as I'm an older guy, too (probably older than you) and I don't think it comes down to the apparent "class" of the guys as much as the class of the style of play. Honestly, one of the only things I liked about the 80's was pro ball (hate 80's music by-and-large). It was also still an era of guys pretty much staying put and trying to make a championship work. Just like any other pro sport today, too many guys are on the move and it's now moreso rooting for your management to do the right things versus the team. I also find it painful to watch regular season anymore as I don't want to have to sift through a dozen selfish plays before I see one good team play sequence. Now, this year might be different as Brand went to the Sixers and I see him as a true throwback player. And with a wiser throwback coach at the reigns, who knows?

          Comment

          • J.R. Locke
            Banned
            • Nov 2004
            • 4137

            #35
            Re: I really want to like basketball again

            Originally posted by jmood88
            That has nothing to do with what I was saying.
            Were you talking about their games?? Because it does change them when they are the man on a college team as opposed to a 12th man on an NBA team.

            Comment

            • Brankles
              Banned
              • May 2003
              • 5113

              #36
              Re: I really want to like basketball again

              Originally posted by J.R. Locke
              To me the whole high school issue is all these "projects" take a roster spot away from a veteren who actually knows how to play the NBA game.


              Really? From 2000-2005, 29 HS players were been drafted, many of them in the second round. That's less than 6 a year for 30 teams, or slightly less than one HS player per roster over the 6 years.

              Current HS players since 2000 starting or playing significant minutes for their teams:
              Lebron, Dwight, Amare, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Tyson Chandler, Travis Outlaw, Kendrick Perkins, Martell Webster, Dsagana Diop, Eddy Curry, Dorell Wright, Sebastian Telfair, Deshawn Stevenson and Andray Blatche.

              Players picked in the 1st round that didn't turn out too well and could be considered a waste of roster space:
              Kwame Brown (1st pick), Ndudi Ebi (late 1st round), Shaun Livingston (injury - lottery), Robert Swift (injury - lottery), Darius Miles (injury - lottery) and Gerald Green (mid-1st round).


              Teams picked players knowing they were going to at minimum take up one of 12 roster spots. If a team cut a good veteran role player for a rookie HS player, then they're idiots. Most likely the 5 or 6 guys unfairly left off teams (in the 6 year influx of HS players) were the Tremaine Fowlkes and Paul Shirleys of the world.

              Comment

              • jmood88
                Sean Payton: Retribution
                • Jul 2003
                • 34639

                #37
                Re: I really want to like basketball again

                Originally posted by J.R. Locke
                Were you talking about their games?? Because it does change them when they are the man on a college team as opposed to a 12th man on an NBA team.
                I don't know of any high school player who would've been drafted in the top 5 that would ever be a 12th man their first year. When teams draft players that high they play.
                Originally posted by Blzer
                Let me assure you that I am a huge proponent of size, and it greatly matters. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

                If I went any bigger, it would not have properly fit with my equipment, so I had to optimize. I'm okay with it, but I also know what I'm missing with those five inches. :)

                Comment

                • ex carrabba fan
                  I'll thank him for you
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 32744

                  #38
                  Re: I really want to like basketball again

                  Originally posted by Brankles
                  http://ssbasketball.rivals.com/conte...132&CID=356192

                  Really? From 2000-2005, 29 HS players were been drafted, many of them in the second round. That's less than 6 a year for 30 teams, or slightly less than one HS player per roster over the 6 years.

                  Current HS players since 2000 starting or playing significant minutes for their teams:
                  Lebron, Dwight, Amare, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Tyson Chandler, Travis Outlaw, Kendrick Perkins, Martell Webster, Dsagana Diop, Eddy Curry, Dorell Wright, Sebastian Telfair, Deshawn Stevenson and Andray Blatche.

                  Players picked in the 1st round that didn't turn out too well and could be considered a waste of roster space:
                  Kwame Brown (1st pick), Ndudi Ebi (late 1st round), Shaun Livingston (injury - lottery), Robert Swift (injury - lottery), Darius Miles (injury - lottery) and Gerald Green (mid-1st round).


                  Teams picked players knowing they were going to at minimum take up one of 12 roster spots. If a team cut a good veteran role player for a rookie HS player, then they're idiots. Most likely the 5 or 6 guys unfairly left off teams (in the 6 year influx of HS players) were the Tremaine Fowlkes and Paul Shirleys of the world.
                  The only issue I had before the ban on high schoolers was that the college game was suffering a bit.

                  Comment

                  • Brankles
                    Banned
                    • May 2003
                    • 5113

                    #39
                    Re: I really want to like basketball again

                    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                    The only issue I had before the ban on high schoolers was that the college game was suffering a bit.
                    But that wasn't why the NBA did it.

                    Comment

                    • ex carrabba fan
                      I'll thank him for you
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 32744

                      #40
                      Re: I really want to like basketball again

                      Originally posted by Brankles
                      But that wasn't why the NBA did it.
                      Oh I'm sure it wasn't even on their radar, but I was just pointing out that the only legit point against HSers to the pros in my eyes was that it was hurting the college game a bit.

                      The point of "the youngins were taking roster spots" holds no water like you pointed out. There really are no real valid arguments for the rule imo.

                      Comment

                      • utexas
                        Greatness
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 4868

                        #41
                        Re: I really want to like basketball again

                        The NBA despite the recent troubles has bounced back in a tremendous way. Of course we view sports differently when we are older or the same age as alot of the major athletes. Our world view is different, not nearly as naive. I love AI on the court, I don't follow him off the court. My philosophy is totake it for what it is entertainment. We don't hold actors or musicians to the same standards that we do athletes. I disagree with the statement that it is a "priviledge" to play pro sports. No, it's a job like everybody elses, it just pays well with alot of time off. I don't get upset if my local grocery store general manager got a DUI last week, because it doesn't affect my produce or my coupons( yup I clip them, got kids...). I guess my point is that we have made pro sports the moral compass for society and don't hold any other type of entertainment to the same standards.

                        About the High Schoolers coming straight to the nba, name the top 20 nba players, at least 10-15 came straight from high school, with another 3 or 4 only spending 1 year in college.
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                        Comment

                        • Brankles
                          Banned
                          • May 2003
                          • 5113

                          #42
                          Re: I really want to like basketball again

                          If you really want to idiot proof the league, just make the minimum age 25, when most players enter their prime, and make them leave when they get to be about 31, when they're leaving their prime.


                          The whole part of the NBA process is developing as a player using all of the expensive and wonderful coaching, training, and technology that is at the fingertips of all players in the league.

                          Putting a HS senior with NBA talent into college for a year is not going to make him any better than he would in a year in the NBA. He's going to receive the same amount of attention, have just as much or more stress from school and the media, not have as good of coaching/leadership/training around him, and all the while risking millions upon millions of dollars if he gets injured playing Bethune Cookman in a pre-season warmup game.

                          I'd much rather have this kind of talent playing a few minutes a game, practicing against the best players in the world, and getting better in a professional environment than busting his butt at a school where he wears himself down playing against inferior talent and not getting paid for doing it.


                          I hate this rule. It's illogical and hurts a lot of players and teams.


                          But I'm not gonna lie... It does make college basketball more fun to watch

                          Comment

                          • J.R. Locke
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 4137

                            #43
                            Re: I really want to like basketball again

                            Originally posted by jmood88
                            I don't know of any high school player who would've been drafted in the top 5 that would ever be a 12th man their first year. When teams draft players that high they play.
                            Kwame Brown.

                            Big men that are drafted high always take a while to develop. They often take up a paid roster spot (remember most teams didn't hold 15 players before the inactive rule change).

                            The NBA has changed to accomodate younger players whether high school or international, I think it has hurt the game.

                            Comment

                            • J.R. Locke
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 4137

                              #44
                              Re: I really want to like basketball again

                              Originally posted by utexas
                              We don't hold actors or musicians to the same standards that we do athletes. I disagree with the statement that it is a "priviledge" to play pro sports. No, it's a job like everybody elses,
                              We hold our athletes to higher ethical standards than we do our politicians....

                              "50 Million Dollar Slaves" is a good book that deals with the perception of athletes and the "privilege" to play.

                              Comment

                              • ka520
                                Banned
                                • May 2008
                                • 445

                                #45
                                Re: I really want to like basketball again

                                Hasn't been the same since Jordan, & never will be.

                                Comment

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