I really want to like basketball again

[Primerica]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Kwame Brown.

Big men that are drafted high always take a while to develop. They often take up a paid roster spot (remember most teams didn't hold 15 players before the inactive rule change).

The NBA has changed to accomodate younger players whether high school or international, I think it has hurt the game.

He would have sucked at UF, he was just average in HS. I seen him play in GA. MJ overvalued him but most of that class sucked.

[Primerica]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

IMO, his example of class is probably a player who doesn't have sleeves tatooed on him and tatoos on his neck.

Bird - He obviously wasn't Bill Lambieer, but his indiscretions on/off court are a non-issue because he's white.

MJ and Magic - Team players who speak educated/eloquently.

Allen Iverson, the pre-imptive face of the 'thugush' NBA....

yea, not your prototypical 'team' player. He had some issues as a rookie w/ his 'entourage', and most of us know of his off court run-ins...Well in today's media age its even more in your face...the negativity.

However, I happen to know Iverson is a great guy being that I'm from his neck of the woods. The man stopped on Interstate 64 to help a victim of a horrible car crash which left the car over-turned. Iverson pulled his car over and turned the car ignition off, and helped the victim...But yet he gets a bad rap because he's got a lot of tattoos and is outspoken (to say the least).

Was that as widely reported as his domestic issues w/ his wife?

Nope.

People just need to be less prejudice and make up there own minds. The game of basketball is still the game of basektball. Like basketball for the game itself...

I mean for crying out loud, Phil Jackson admitted he once (at least once) used LSD when he was a player playing in an NBA game...

Jordan had more mistresses than scoring titles, MVPs, and rings combined...that doesn't speak of class?

I don't think Magic got Aids from a blood transfusion gone wrong. What really makes these guys better 'people' than say Gilbert Arenas or Lebron?

I'm just not buying into how things were so much better back in the day...If anything it was because most of the league was oppressed by the fact that they didn't get paid like the players do today...the owners got the big $$$. So they had to be on their best 'behavior'...

anyways...

Magic personality, Bird hue, and MJ bigger then life persona with the innocent smile all played into people perception of them.
Kobe was accused of rape, Lebron looks like King Kong, and A.I. is the perceptive image of a thug is in most ppl mind. Just the truth, ppl aren't that hard to figure out, some are sincere, some not so much. Just think about it..

[Primerica]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

I used to love the NBA, now I don't really care for it at all. Basically boils down to a few things:

1) Game becoming way more physical than it used to be. It doesn't even seem like basketball a lot of times, just big shoving matches underneath.
2) The players seem to go through the motions a lot, the effort just isn't there all the time it seems
3) Teams don't stay together very long, nobody can get along or else they chase money
4) Guys just can't shoot worth **** anymore. Everybody is 6'9" and can do 360's, ask them to shoot a free throw or mid range jumper and they're toast.
5) No college to pro relationship anymore, guys go pro way too soon to form any connection.
6) Horrible refs that all too often decide the outcome of a game
7) Guys just don't have any personality, or if they have any, it just makes you want to hate them most of the time. Regardless of how a guy like Iverson is in real life, he comes off as arrogant, 'bigger than the team', and lazy in his interviews with the press and actions.

The NBA is just a poor product in my opinion. I think there's one change that they should make though, let teams play whatever defense that they want. I think it's ridiculous that they just can't play a straight zone with a big guy in the middle all the time.

Taylor34

1)That's like saying Pacman Jones is smart, seriously never heard this one before. I heard the game wussified but not too physical.

2)Depends on the team, I seen this in the 80's games as well the 90's too.

3)Please tell me your a fan of the 80's because those players stay put much less then today's players.

4)Better defense plans attibute to that stat. I know some NBA players personally and they can shoot lights out in warmups. This isn't the 80's where it was more physical but the schemes were less complicated.

5)True, but the young players are so good from AAU and other events that were not around in the 80's and even parts of the 90's.

6)This has been the problem in every sport, not just NBA/basketball.

7)Your last post might as well been your first because they rest of rambling in this post was quite pathetic and drivel to read. Thank you for wasting 10 mins I will never get back.

[Brankles]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

I always find it funny when people say the guys nowadays cant shoot.

from what i saw "back in the day" was more of a uptempo run up and down take the first availble shot game, liek the cletics used to do, and other teams.

well when your getting layups and wide open jump shots, your goign to make those at a fairly higher clip then a contested shot from either the post or the perimiter.

the truth to that whole argument is the players nowadays are way more athletic, and BIGGEr and able to cover space quicker so those same shots more then half of them wouldnt have even been a open shot

add that that some guys can shoot at a decent clip even when being contested then you even have a argument that guys shoot BETTER now then then.

I think a lot of people are underrating how ridiculously athletic the guys in the League are nowadays and how that translates to better defense, the court being "shortened" due to size and speed, and jumpshooting being more difficult.

I see athletes like Lebron and Wade and wonder what they could have done 25 years ago with those bodies.

[23]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Then screw the fact that those guys didnt have the trainers medicines weights facilities, etc to train their bodies the same either.

Come on now. Being big and athletic means jack, and Team USA over the past few years should have taught us all that.

[Brankles]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Probaly the biggest myth going. March Madness was bigger than the NBA with or without HS stars. In fact, you could say the "one and done" trend hurts many programs.

What many people don't realize is that making kids go to college is about much more than basketball skills.

Well considering Kevin Durant won POY as a freshman, Beasley finished 2nd in POY voting, Carmelo won a title as a freshman, Greg Oden and Mike Conley led their team to the NCAA Finals as freshman, Marvin Williams won a title as 6th man on UNC, Kevin Love took UCLA to the Final Four, and Derrick Rose led his team to the Finals this past season, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Freshman are making a bigger impact now more than ever. It's exciting to watch them play because they should be in the league, but they're playing down a level because of a rule. It's like guys on Varsity playing JV.

[taylor34]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

1)That's like saying Pacman Jones is smart, seriously never heard this one before. I heard the game wussified but not too physical.

2)Depends on the team, I seen this in the 80's games as well the 90's too.

3)Please tell me your a fan of the 80's because those players stay put much less then today's players.

4)Better defense plans attibute to that stat. I know some NBA players personally and they can shoot lights out in warmups. This isn't the 80's where it was more physical but the schemes were less complicated.

5)True, but the young players are so good from AAU and other events that were not around in the 80's and even parts of the 90's.

6)This has been the problem in every sport, not just NBA/basketball.

7)Your last post might as well been your first because they rest of rambling in this post was quite pathetic and drivel to read. Thank you for wasting 10 mins I will never get back.

I have no idea why people think that basketball today is less physical than 15 to 20 years ago. There's no comparison in my eyes, it's a lot rougher sport now. The pistons changed that forever. And it's not just the NBA, it's just basketball in general. When I go play pickup games now there are way more fouls and pushing/shoving than there used to be. Or perhaps it may be more of the fact that refs used to call those as fouls before, whereas so much of that just slides today. I wish that it was the opposite like you state.

Of course, in my pathetic ramblings (as you would put it) I would also argue that the operation sports message board over the past year has been increasing filled with people that feel the need to be jerks to other people. Perhaps it's just my memory is bad though. Have a good night.

Taylor34

[JBH3]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Magic personality, Bird hue, and MJ bigger then life persona with the innocent smile all played into people perception of them.
Kobe was accused of rape, Lebron looks like King Kong, and A.I. is the perceptive image of a thug is in most ppl mind. Just the truth, ppl aren't that hard to figure out, some are sincere, some not so much. Just think about it..

And the stereo-typing/prejudice of assuming Lebron or anyone who looks like Allen Iverson would shoot you as quickly as they would run by you on an NBA court is what is wrong w/ our society.

Kobe accused or rape...I for one can't stand the guy, but did he rape that girl...??? He was accused but never convicted, and while I think our justice system in America is a joke to say the least, what happened to Kobe probably wasn't any different than what happens to Bill Murray in Lost in Translation...lip my stocking...

I'm just going to venture to say that, and this is a really wild thought, but maybe just maybe that chick in Denver was crying wolf to try and get some cash from Kobe....

Now w/ what Kobe's got at home, and just the simple fact that he is married before God, and if you don't believe in God he is married by law, makes me despise him...

But I'm just not buying that he ever raped that girl, which would make him no different than a divorced MJ and a guy named Magic who was probably as 'permiscuous' as Jenna Jameson.

So OP...you want to like baseketball again...Well like it...Its as freaking simple as that.

or...Just Do It.

[GSW]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Then screw the fact that those guys didnt have the trainers medicines weights facilities, etc to train their bodies the same either.

Come on now. Being big and athletic means jack, and Team USA over the past few years should have taught us all that.

how can you screw the fact that guys are more athletic?

Is it their fault that technology has advanced to the point they can do weight training and use various supplements to enhance their performance?

All i was saying is that the way people are talking its like these guys cant shoot the ball or they suck and back in the 60's 70's early 80's every team was full of sharpshooting wizards.

And that is just not the truth.

As far as Team USA goes, thats just a silly analogy because we all know they lost because they werent playing as a TEAM, and international ball players are a little bit better now and more focused on winning as a UNIT.

[mvb34]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

2) The players seem to go through the motions a lot, the effort just isn't there all the time it seems
You go and play three games in five nights plus add in travel

3) Teams don't stay together very long, nobody can get along or else they chase money
This is not true teams do stay together longer due to the hard salary cap

[23]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

how can you screw the fact that guys are more athletic?

Is it their fault that technology has advanced to the point they can do weight training and use various supplements to enhance their performance?

All i was saying is that the way people are talking its like these guys cant shoot the ball or they suck and back in the 60's 70's early 80's every team was full of sharpshooting wizards.

And that is just not the truth.

As far as Team USA goes, thats just a silly analogy because we all know they lost because they werent playing as a TEAM, and international ball players are a little bit better now and more focused on winning as a UNIT.

I agreed with you that players can shoot, but it would be alot worse these days without alot of the rule changes.. sorry, its the main reason they were created in the first place.

Its a fact that the league average was higher than todays was, and all players had to know how to shoot. Darius Miles and Chuck Hayes would never make NBA teams in Magic's day.

Team USA tried to play based on their athleticism instead of team play and got wiped out. Athleticism means jack when you can't put it togther in a team concept.

Ask my man Stro Show how he's doing, or even Stevie Franchise

Shawn Kemp and Chris Jackson shakes their heads.

[GSW]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

I agreed with you that players can shoot, but it would be alot worse these days without alot of the rule changes.. sorry, its the main reason they were created in the first place.

Its a fact that the league average was higher than todays was, and all players had to know how to shoot. Darius Miles and Chuck Hayes would never make NBA teams in Magic's day.

Team USA tried to play based on their athleticism instead of team play and got wiped out. Athleticism means jack when you can't put it togther in a team concept.

Ask my man Stro Show how he's doing, or even Stevie Franchise

Shawn Kemp and Chris Jackson shakes their heads.

Im sticking to my guns the average was higher because they were fastbreaking and getting wide open looks...the league wasnt full of reggie millers or dell currys

Darius miles isnt on an NBA team and im pretty sure Chuck Hayes is a very good rebounder.

you are making it seem as if there were no Chuck Hayes types in the league back then ... big guys who couldnt shoot but who could be physical and rebound.

and that is just not true.

Stromile Swift does not get any run and neither does Steve Francis. But even these are examples of just two people who did not want to adapt to play a team game... or get better.

for every Chuck Hayes and Darius Miles i could probably look up some stats and find you a similar player back then who was doing the same things.

[GSW]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

chuck Hayes Clone.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/silaspa01.html

The Great Paul Silas.

[23]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

Chuck Hayes cannot make wide open layups let alone a jumper or a freethrow.

Are you telling me that the league was full of sieves and they just played the game on the offensive end, therefore man 1-12 could shoot at a higher percentage?

If that's your case along with athleticism then that's a terrible case from jumpstreet.

You cannot discount the modern medicines of today and technology saying its not their fault that its avialable, yet make excuses as to why these guys aren't shooting better. Athleticism means jack in a game of skill if you dont have a balance.

[GSW]

Re: I really want to like basketball again

For the record obviously Paul silas couldnt make anything either shooting 30%.
and its not like paul silas was a bum he actually got burn in the league on a pretty good team.
So stop with the Chuck hayes couldnt play in "magics day" thing. He obviously could and hes probably be doing the same thing hes doing now.

but anyway.

Im saying that its a lot easier to shoot a higher percentage when the shots your getting are in transition or fairly open.

of course there were good defenders in the league... but sometimes the way people talk its like

the whole league played like the badboy pistons and the guys still shot amazing fg%'s

guys were shooting bad because they take terrible shots. not because they cant shoot.. look at kobe for example that dude takes terrible shots, he just makes them so its like whatever.

back then they played a team game.

the NBA entered a zone as you know where the game was basically give the ball to the best player and get out the way... total one on one...(against very gifted athletic players) so of course when your basically going 1 on 5 you cannot shoot a good percentage doesnt matter how good you are. Even rick barry couldnt do that.

now look a more team orientated game higher fg%.. has nothting to do with the older players being more skilled.