TNT Halftime

[phenom1990]

Kenny Smith said at halftime that he thinks the league is better now than it was 3 or 4 years ago. Chuck disagreed.
Who do you agree with more?

Personally I believe Kenny more. I think there are more good to very good teams now then there was 3 or 4 years ago.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: TNT Halftime

Man i'd be horrified if the league was worse now than it was in the early 2000's. Does anyone else remember those sub-70 point play off games in the East?

[Tha_Kid]

Re: TNT Halftime

Man i'd be horrified if the league was worse now than it was in the early 2000's. Does anyone else remember those sub-70 point play off games in the East?

Thats more like 6 years ago though. I agree with Kenny's point though.

[Flyboy]

Re: TNT Halftime

People should be very excited for the state of the league right now.

[Brankles]

Re: TNT Halftime

People should be very excited for the state of the league right now.

This is the best the NBA has been since the Jordan Era, maybe better. There's no superstar quite like Mike, but the majority of NBA teams are all competitive and there are stars all over the league that are young and exciting to watch.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: TNT Halftime

The league right now from a player standpoint is at the best its been since maybe the early 90's. Every position goes ridiculously deep right now even center is pretty good (just not in the east). PG goes atleast like 7 deep with all stars, SG and SF go very deep and is really top heavy with megastars, PF and center are both deep and getting deeper every year. The NBA is really in fantastic shape with all the star players and has only gotten better since they put in the age limit.

[Fiasco West]

Re: TNT Halftime

I think the NBA is just getting better and better honestly, competitive wise... and it's not because dudes have to go to college one season...although it's a reason.

The biggest reason is international players.

Think about all the teams now...the good ones...

What would the Lakers be without Gasol, Vladimir, Sasha?
Portland without Rudy/ Batum/ Pryzbilla?
Orlando without Hedo?
Dallas wouldn't even be a good team without Dirk.
Houston without Yao.
Spurs without Manu and Parker.

List goes on. The international pool of players IMO is the biggest reason why the level of play is up. Although there are nights where the Refs screw up the game...the level of play is fantastic I feel.

[Brankles]

Re: TNT Halftime

The league right now from a player standpoint is at the best its been since maybe the early 90's. Every position goes ridiculously deep right now even center is pretty good (just not in the east). PG goes atleast like 7 deep with all stars, SG and SF go very deep and is really top heavy with megastars, PF and center are both deep and getting deeper every year. The NBA is really in fantastic shape with all the star players and has only gotten better since they put in the age limit.

Funny thing is, all of those Megastars and superstars were either in the league before the age limit or were completely unaffected by the age limit (except Greg Oden, who hurt himself the one year he had to go to college).

That's another argument entirely, though.

[Brankles]

Re: TNT Halftime

I think the NBA is just getting better and better honestly, competitive wise... and it's not because dudes have to go to college one season...although it's a reason.

The biggest reason is international players.

Think about all the teams now...the good ones...

What would the Lakers be without Gasol, Vladimir, Sasha?
Portland without Rudy/ Batum/ Pryzbilla?
Orlando without Hedo?
Dallas wouldn't even be a good team without Dirk.
Houston without Yao.
Spurs without Manu and Parker.

List goes on. The international pool of players IMO is the biggest reason why the level of play is up. Although there are nights where the Refs screw up the game...the level of play is fantastic I feel.

Good point. International ball is improving as well, which has translated to NBA-caliber talent coming over from overseas.


Oh, and Joel Przybilla was born in Minnesota.

[Fiasco West]

Re: TNT Halftime

Good point. International ball is improving as well, which has translated to NBA-caliber talent coming over from overseas.


Oh, and Joel Przybilla was born in Minnesota.

I knew I wasn't sure about him. He just plays like a gritty european big man I suppose.

[Tmacattack]

Re: TNT Halftime

The league is definitely way better than it was 3/4 years ago. Think about the talent on the top teams (and bottom teams now). The best players 4 years ago were Kobe Shaq Tmac Garnett and Duncan. Garnett, Duncan and Kobe are the same players, some would even say Kobe's improved. But now you have added to that Bosh, Howard, LeBron, Wade, Paul, Amare, Yao and many more that are getting closer to that level. Paul is better than any point gaurd in the league 4 years ago, James is as good as any player 4 years ago. Bosh and Howard are close to Garnett while still a tiny bit below Duncan. Wade is near Kobe/Tmac level from four years ago, so more very good players are replacing the few thathave fallen off. You have more players that are very good. The players that were the reason for a low level league have all grown up and become better, while no players that were too risky have been avoided more, resulting in much more efficient offenses and better skillsets in players as opposed to raw athletic ability. Think of a guy like Daruis Miles, wasn't he starting with the Clippers a few years back? Someone like that wouldn't be able to make it very far with most teams now.

About Barkley, I think it's an age bias. He was saying how any teams from the 90's would own today's league but I think that's just not true. Yes they'd be very good but it's unfair to think they'd own, just because the game has changed and players have changed. An individual is always going to think their generation is the best. In 10 years, the 20 year old fans will believe that James will be considered better than Kobe, Kobe will be considered as good as Jordan, and Dominique and Drexler will be looked at as just good players, and this is regardless of what actually transpires in their careers but because everyone wants to think that they lived through the best era.

I don't know about you, but I see a guy like James or Howard dominating 80's basketball. They'd be so much faster and stronger than everyone else, but older individuals will argue that they aren't as fundemental or they don't have the same basketball IQ as past players. The fact of the matter is, you can never truly judge because the game changes. You can't make accurate judgements. Maybe a great player from the 80's would've had a tough time in today's league because of how everyone is so much more athletiic, or maybe a great player from today will have a tough time 20 years ago because he'll be left in the dust in terms of skillset and basketball IQ. It's tough to really say, but one thing is for sure; the league is in very good hands and basketball today is very exciting. You have guys now producing numbers like Oscar and Jordan (in terms of all aroundess, eg. 30 6 6) like Wade and LeBron. You have guys having historical pg numbers like Williams and Paul with their points, assists and feild goal percentages.

Overall, it's unfair and biased for Barkley to think that his teams from the 90s would own today's league because you never really know.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: TNT Halftime

Funny thing is, all of those Megastars and superstars were either in the league before the age limit or were completely unaffected by the age limit (except Greg Oden, who hurt himself the one year he had to go to college).

That's another argument entirely, though.

True but the age limit has mostly helped with the depth of teams. Teams have players who have proven they can play at a relatively high level instead of waiting for a high schooler to develop and learn how to play properly. Not every high schooler drafted has been a Lebron, Kobe, or KG.

[Brankles]

Re: TNT Halftime

True but the age limit has mostly helped with the depth of teams. Teams have players who have proven they can play at a relatively high level instead of waiting for a high schooler to develop and learn how to play properly. Not every high schooler drafted has been a Lebron, Kobe, or KG.

This is from another thread a few months old, regarding the age limit (not updated for the 08-09 season):

Martell Webster (6th overall) - Averages 10 ppg, started 68 games this year
Andrew Bynum (10th overall)- Budding superstar, averaged 13 and 10 before injury
Gerald Green (18th overall) - See: This topic
CJ Miles (34th overall) - 4ppg off of Jerry Sloan's bench. Had some 20 point games in December
Ricky Sanchez (35th overall) - A no-name that was drafted out of nowhere
Monta Ellis (40th overall) - 19.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.8 apg
Louis Williams (45th overall) - 11 ppg, 3 apg, 2 rpg. Numbers have gone up later in the season
Andray Blatche (49th overall) - 7 ppg, 5 rpg. Started 10 games. Got shot a few years back, which hurt his development
Amir Johnson (56th overall) - Plays 11 mpg for the Pistons

Gerald Green was the 18th pick of that draft and is currently playing good minutes for the Mavs.

8 out of 9 of those HS guys are still in the league and contributing to their teams. If anything, they've helped their teams' depth by developing under the best training and competition in the world and playing solid basketball for their respective squads.

This was the last year the HS age limit was allowed. The age limit has nothing to do with improving the league.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: TNT Halftime

Most of them would've benefitted from going to college for atleast year and would've been more NBA ready. You dont think an age limit would've helped Gerald Green? Not even alittle bit?

[Lumalu]

Re: TNT Halftime

The league is definitely way better than it was 3/4 years ago. Think about the talent on the top teams (and bottom teams now). The best players 4 years ago were Kobe Shaq Tmac Garnett and Duncan. Garnett, Duncan and Kobe are the same players, some would even say Kobe's improved. But now you have added to that Bosh, Howard, LeBron, Wade, Paul, Amare, Yao and many more that are getting closer to that level. Paul is better than any point gaurd in the league 4 years ago, James is as good as any player 4 years ago. Bosh and Howard are close to Garnett while still a tiny bit below Duncan. Wade is near Kobe/Tmac level from four years ago, so more very good players are replacing the few thathave fallen off. You have more players that are very good. The players that were the reason for a low level league have all grown up and become better, while no players that were too risky have been avoided more, resulting in much more efficient offenses and better skillsets in players as opposed to raw athletic ability. Think of a guy like Daruis Miles, wasn't he starting with the Clippers a few years back? Someone like that wouldn't be able to make it very far with most teams now.

About Barkley, I think it's an age bias. He was saying how any teams from the 90's would own today's league but I think that's just not true. Yes they'd be very good but it's unfair to think they'd own, just because the game has changed and players have changed. An individual is always going to think their generation is the best. In 10 years, the 20 year old fans will believe that James will be considered better than Kobe, Kobe will be considered as good as Jordan, and Dominique and Drexler will be looked at as just good players, and this is regardless of what actually transpires in their careers but because everyone wants to think that they lived through the best era.

I don't know about you, but I see a guy like James or Howard dominating 80's basketball. They'd be so much faster and stronger than everyone else, but older individuals will argue that they aren't as fundemental or they don't have the same basketball IQ as past players. The fact of the matter is, you can never truly judge because the game changes. You can't make accurate judgements. Maybe a great player from the 80's would've had a tough time in today's league because of how everyone is so much more athletiic, or maybe a great player from today will have a tough time 20 years ago because he'll be left in the dust in terms of skillset and basketball IQ. It's tough to really say, but one thing is for sure; the league is in very good hands and basketball today is very exciting. You have guys now producing numbers like Oscar and Jordan (in terms of all aroundess, eg. 30 6 6) like Wade and LeBron. You have guys having historical pg numbers like Williams and Paul with their points, assists and feild goal percentages.

Overall, it's unfair and biased for Barkley to think that his teams from the 90s would own today's league because you never really know.

It's hard to compare era's, I mean teams of 90's would of dominated teams of the 70's early 80's. The NBA has evolved so much, take James and Dwight, they're phenomenal athletes.

Barkley's generation is largely responsible for bringing the NBA to a global audience. The impact Jordan, Magic, Bird etc... had on the international community will never be matched.

Most great players that come through the ranks, are always compared to his Airness and their is not one player yet, who has eclipsed his shadow.