So.. Matrix really was a system player?

[ex carrabba fan]

I'm hearing his name come up once again in trade rumors to Dallas and Toronto.

I realize teams may want him more for his expiring contract, but watching him play since leaving Phoenix has just not been the same. I mean Nash still has games where I'll be like "that's the Nash I know".. I can't remember saying that about Matrix.

So was he just a system player? I remember our Matrix getting so riled up whenever anyone would hint at that.. but I fear it may have been true.

[Brankles]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

One of my favorite NBA debates is Shawn Marion vs Lamar Odom. I've always said Lamar is the better and more complete player and Shawn Marion's success was mainly due to the system in Phoenix. While Lamar certainly isn't dominating the league, I still would pick him over Marion.

Marion is a hustle player who puts in work, but his game relies a ton on garbage points... either open jumpers, ugly floaters off of penetration, fast break points, or putbacks, which is what he did exclusively in PHX. His gaudy defensive numbers came from the number of possessions his opponents had, him playing small-ball/out of position, and the lack of any other interior presence besides STAT.

He's solid, but he's a role player, and doesn't deserve to get the money he's paid, imo.

[shadymouse]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

One of my favorite NBA debates is Shawn Marion vs Lamar Odom. I've always said Lamar is the better and more complete player and Shawn Marion's success was mainly due to the system in Phoenix. While Lamar certainly isn't dominating the league, I still would pick him over Marion.

Marion is a hustle player who puts in work, but his game relies a ton on garbage points... either open jumpers, ugly floaters off of penetration, fast break points, or putbacks, which is what he did exclusively in PHX. His gaudy defensive numbers came from the number of possessions his opponents had, him playing small-ball/out of position, and the lack of any other interior presence besides STAT.

He's solid, but he's a role player, and doesn't deserve to get the money he's paid, imo.

Agree. And he thinks he's better than what he is. And by the way players are being paid this decade, he'll be another over payed athlete come end of this season.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

Shawn Marion's playing style is conducive to the style in PHOENIX, not necessarily D'Antoni's system specifically. Phoenix has always had a high-flying, athletic offense. They played directly to his strengths, no matter who was the coach.

Remember, Shawn Marion was a star well before D'Antoni & Nash came to Phoenix.

My guess is that Wade's scoring has really hurt Marion's ability to score. Marion got a bunch of his scoring off of the misses from shots his teammates took in Phoenix, like Brankles said. That said, only his scoring is down. He's still rebounding at around 10 per game, still getting at least a steal and block per game, and still shooting 48%, which isn't as high as it was before, but still not that bad.

[The Chef]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

Is anyone else dumbfounded by the rumor that Riley is trying to deal Marion for Jermaine O'Neal? I know Marion is probably looked at as a failure since moving to Miami but O'Neal is such a gigantic injury risk I dont see the upside here that apparently Riley sees. Anyone else agree?

[PrettyT11]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

Not only do I agree I believe if they do this trade they might as well prepare for Wade to walk away. If they bring in O'Neal that pretty takes them out of the free agent market this year meaning Wade will have to play next year with an even worse team than there is now. There is no reason to believe they would be able to bring someboy else in with Wade in 2010. So why would Wade stick around for this losing and having to play Superman every night??

[Brankles]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

Good point PT11.

If I'm the Heat, I just sit on Marion's contract and try to bring in a superstar next year. There's no way adding Jermaine O'Neal pushes this team over the edge and into the Finals. It just leaves them lingering in mediocrity for longer.

[The Chef]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

Not only do I agree I believe if they do this trade they might as well prepare for Wade to walk away. If they bring in O'Neal that pretty takes them out of the free agent market this year meaning Wade will have to play next year with an even worse team than there is now. There is no reason to believe they would be able to bring someboy else in with Wade in 2010. So why would Wade stick around for this losing and having to play Superman every night??

Exactly my thoughts, it doesnt make any sense and to top it off the Heat would have to send other players over to get the salaries to matchup I believe. Miami is better off getting Chalmers and Beasley groomed and then making a splash in the offseason not pushing the panic button and making a roster move just for the sake of making a move.

[23]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

I edited the title ec, because it is unnecessary man

That said, seems like Marion is more like a guy who has to be in a specific role to be most effective or he seems kinda neutral otherwise.
Lets keep it off the trade rumors though because we dont want multiple threads on that topic.

This is a just a Marion discussion, one sorta you could make up about boozer

[J.R. Locke]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player?

Yo Nash's team is still the most effecient scoring team in the league. It wasn't the system that did that. Nash is a very good offensive player.

Matrix is a very unique player that needs to have freedom. He isn't a guy who fits on every team. Up tempo suits him. But also playing agaisnt matchups where he can use his quickness is very important. Plus he sure does play like a headcase, up and down.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

I edited the title ec, because it is unnecessary man

That said, seems like Marion is more like a guy who has to be in a specific role to be most effective or he seems kinda neutral otherwise.
Lets keep it off the trade rumors though because we dont want multiple threads on that topic.

This is a just a Marion discussion, one sorta you could make up about boozer

You edited the Nike talk? I don't care what your reasons are, I'm organizing a mutiny. We'll have your badge for this, you sonuva.....

[faster]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player?

Marion is not a go-to-guy. Or a second option either. He's a garbage guy who gets his points based on hustle. He's perfect for an uptempo type of game where he can fly around, be unaccounted for, and just do his thing. He'll grab some offensive rebounds, put up an open shot, get a few putbacks, etc. Never, EVER, do you run a play for Shawn Marion. If you already have two guys who get the job done consistently on the offensive side, then Marion is a great addition. You plug him into the lineup and he fills in nicely. If your team is in a position where you need to count on him to produce to win, you're in trouble. He's not that player.

[23]

Re: So.. Matrix really was a system player? VOL. OS pick a player to bash day

You edited the Nike talk? I don't care what your reasons are, I'm organizing a mutiny. We'll have your badge for this, you sonuva.....

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