Chris Andersen

[darrenp1518]

Its amazing to me that birdman doesn't get more minutes than he does....if i was the coach of the nuggets i would take minutes away from anthony carter and kleiza and put him on the floor in a combination more with martin and nene at the same time because martin can handle it defensively against smaller and quicker SF....i would just have billups and anthony or smith at the guard positions

But he has just as much of an impact on the game as anybody

Basically George Karl is a ****ing puppet and chauncey billups is the coach...u would think he could at least get a guy thats SO productive more minutes especially with the versatily of martin

[WilliamWilliamson]

Re: Chris Andersen

Didn't they just dominate the Hornets?

[Brandon13]

Re: Chris Andersen

Didn't they just dominate the Hornets?

Game four wouldn't have been so close if the Birdman got more minutes.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Chris Andersen

I'm a big fan of Bird, but he's a spot minute energy player, not a guy you want in for 30 minutes. When we've had to do that out of necessity, he's played pretty well, but he takes himself out of plays far too often to have him playing that many minutes, especially when we have solid man defenders in Martin and Nene. It was the same issue with Camby -- you play that guy 35 minutes and he'll get 15 rebounds and 6 blocks at times, but he'll also give up a ton of easy looks after biting on fakes, pick up fouls at a high rate (Bird, not Camby), and be another guy to sag off on the defensive end.

The reason that the Denver defense wasn't solid at all the last few years was because there was WAY too much gambling going on, which is how Bird gets most of his blocks. He's more athletic than Camby at this point in his career, so he can often recover and affect the shot anyway after getting faked out, but he just opens up the defense too much for my comfort. Against a good team, we pay for that every time.

He won't be a good matchup for anyone in the Dallas series except maybe Ryan Hollins (he'll foul out in 10 minutes guarding Dirk), so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets less time than he did against the Hornets. Kleiza should get more burn in that series because Dallas isn't a great transition defense team and Kleiza is one of the best runners on the team -- we can't afford to let their decent defense become a good one because they can slack off of players. We need JR on the floor a lot to spread the offense, not a non-threat like Birdman, Balkman, Jones, or Carter (though he'll get lots of minutes because George likes him covering Terry).

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

Didn't they just dominate the Hornets?

That has absolutely nothing to do wit my post because the hornets are severely undermanned

Secondly the nuggets will handle the mavericks easily without giving andersen more minutes again.

But against the lakers they really should consider going big with martin at the three for at least 10 minutes every game to matchup and get andersen more minutes....he's way too productive not too

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

I'm a big fan of Bird, but he's a spot minute energy player, not a guy you want in for 30 minutes. When we've had to do that out of necessity, he's played pretty well, but he takes himself out of plays far too often to have him playing that many minutes, especially when we have solid man defenders in Martin and Nene. It was the same issue with Camby -- you play that guy 35 minutes and he'll get 15 rebounds and 6 blocks at times, but he'll also give up a ton of easy looks after biting on fakes, pick up fouls at a high rate (Bird, not Camby), and be another guy to sag off on the defensive end.

The reason that the Denver defense wasn't solid at all the last few years was because there was WAY too much gambling going on, which is how Bird gets most of his blocks. He's more athletic than Camby at this point in his career, so he can often recover and affect the shot anyway after getting faked out, but he just opens up the defense too much for my comfort. Against a good team, we pay for that every time.

He won't be a good matchup for anyone in the Dallas series except maybe Ryan Hollins (he'll foul out in 10 minutes guarding Dirk), so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets less time than he did against the Hornets. Kleiza should get more burn in that series because Dallas isn't a great transition defense team and Kleiza is one of the best runners on the team -- we can't afford to let their decent defense become a good one because they can slack off of players. We need JR on the floor a lot to spread the offense, not a non-threat like Birdman, Balkman, Jones, or Carter (though he'll get lots of minutes because George likes him covering Terry).

I dont see him gambling nearly as much as you say....he just contests every shot attempt and thats what u need....if a guys is getting 5 blocks a game he needs to be out on the floor more period

I cant name anyone other than LeBron that could have blocked that layup by chris paul after he blew by andersen

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

The nuggets have enough offensive weapons that having one guy on the floor more to sag off on wont make a bit of difference, especially when a guy like JR Smith has never met a shot that he wont take.

And my suggestion was that they should reduce anthony carter's 4 birdman and maybe have JR run the point for abt 5 minutes a game and make sure he's under control...its just about bringing the ball up the floor and 5 minutes wouldn't kill because he'd be giving it up to melo down the floor anyway

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Chris Andersen

No they don't, which is why Carter/Jones/Birdman, etc. get left WIDE OPEN while Melo gets double and triple-teamed and the defenders stay home on Billups. You need another option to spread the offense -- it gets Nene going as well because they can't just rush and double him, which causes him a TON of problems. JR has developed his ball-handling and passing to the point that he's a fairly reliable backup PG (when he's in PG mode), so that also give you someone who can handle the ball and make plays for others (unlike Jones, who does nothing of the sort) and take some of the focus off of Chauncey so he can work without the ball.

Look, George Karl said that he would start JR if we had better production off the bench -- that's ****ing Kleiza's fault, because he's been horrendous this year... But you look at the rest of the roster (Dahntay Jones, Balkman, Petro, Jason Hart, Sonny Weems), where is that offense going to come from? JR is on the bench out of necessity, otherwise it's a no-brainer to start him because they literally could not double-team 'Melo consistently, and he will eat any defender alive 1-on-1.. it's the obvious solution, but GK's hands are tied due to the bench being filled with guys who can't create any offense.

Anyway, I get your point about Birdman probably deserving more minutes based on his play, but if that comes at the expense of not having the better defenders in K-Mart and Nene on the floor, it's not worth it. And if it's playing K-Mart at SF, it's not worth it... you really think we could score any points with Billups, JR, Martin, Birdman, and Nene on the floor? There's a reason that lineup has never once been run this entire season: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DEN2.HTM

Bird is exactly what he's been this season -- a GREAT backup center who hustles, scores on easy dunks/putbacks/oops, and blocks a ton of shots per minute. However, he gambles way too much for blocks, gets taken out of rebounding position constantly for the same reason, is too thin to bang with real post players (both in man defense as well as rebounding), and has no offensive game to speak of outside of a random made 10-footer. His role right now is perfect for him, and that's why he's having the best season of his career by far.

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

No they don't, which is why Carter/Jones/Birdman, etc. get left WIDE OPEN while Melo gets double and triple-teamed and the defenders stay home on Billups. You need another option to spread the offense -- it gets Nene going as well because they can't just rush and double him, which causes him a TON of problems. JR has developed his ball-handling and passing to the point that he's a fairly reliable backup PG (when he's in PG mode), so that also give you someone who can handle the ball and make plays for others (unlike Jones, who does nothing of the sort) and take some of the focus off of Chauncey so he can work without the ball.

Look, George Karl said that he would start JR if we had better production off the bench -- that's ****ing Kleiza's fault, because he's been horrendous this year... But you look at the rest of the roster (Dahntay Jones, Balkman, Petro, Jason Hart, Sonny Weems), where is that offense going to come from? JR is on the bench out of necessity, otherwise it's a no-brainer to start him because they literally could not double-team 'Melo consistently, and he will eat any defender alive 1-on-1.. it's the obvious solution, but GK's hands are tied due to the bench being filled with guys who can't create any offense.

Anyway, I get your point about Birdman probably deserving more minutes based on his play, but if that comes at the expense of not having the better defenders in K-Mart and Nene on the floor, it's not worth it. And if it's playing K-Mart at SF, it's not worth it... you really think we could score any points with Billups, JR, Martin, Birdman, and Nene on the floor? There's a reason that lineup has never once been run this entire season: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DEN2.HTM

Bird is exactly what he's been this season -- a GREAT backup center who hustles, scores on easy dunks/putbacks/oops, and blocks a ton of shots per minute. However, he gambles way too much for blocks, gets taken out of rebounding position constantly for the same reason, is too thin to bang with real post players (both in man defense as well as rebounding), and has no offensive game to speak of outside of a random made 10-footer. His role right now is perfect for him, and that's why he's having the best season of his career by far.

impressive come back with the facts man you definitely know basketball...but really i would say he's having a break out season because he stopped using drugs so often, when you clean urself up it makes a huge difference because you actually care about your personal success.

but when you say that they have yet to use the combination of martin, andersen, and nene 4 a reason that really bothers me and i looked at the stats and ur absolutely correct. But martin can guard any position one-on-one and its just a lineup that should have been experimented with by now. It would be perfect 4 ten minutes a game against the lakers especially if bynum remains healthy because there team is so big.

but basically i fully understand what your saying about too many non offensive threats because i completely forgot about jones not being a threat...but me personally i would rotate only 8 guys since its the playoffs during game time that actually matters

I would play Nene, Martin, Anthony, Jones, Billups, Smith, Kleiza, and Andersen and completely remove Carter from the rotation because he's a waste because he doesn't even run the offense that well imho...he did have some nice plays in the last game but nothing that JR or dante jones cant keep under control for 10 minutes a game between themselves so that andersen can steal carter's minutes.

So basically im just saying that Andersen should be getting all of carter's minutes because i think his positives compared to Carter's far outweigh the mistakes that you say he makes because i really dont see them to the degree that you do....I mean he completely changes the game on the defensive end. Numerous times Chris Paul and Posey drove in and wouldnt even look at the basket from 3 feet away, thats something that u want on the floor as much as possible....and since the nuggets are greatly undervaluing what he brings he's going to leave you guys next year and make a huge impact on somebody's team next year and im talkin ben wallace type of impact barring an injury!!

[jnofx]

Re: Chris Andersen

all i have to add to this thread is...


P.S.
Pprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

Plus his rebounds per 48 where ranked 12th, blocks per 48 nearly doubles dwight howard, and he has the highest efficiency per 48 on his team!!! so he's obvious not lacking in the rebounding category even though he has to battle with nene, martin, and anthony 4 boards

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

all i have to add to this thread is...


P.S.
Pprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

what's that supposed to mean??

[jnofx]

Re: Chris Andersen

what's that supposed to mean??

Check out the Chappelle show skit with the gang wars on the History Channel spoof.

"Yeah it's a tragedy! Could you repeat the question?"


Yeah, find it, hear the bird call, read the prison letter, and i PROMISE you, everytime you see birdman fly in for a swat or a dunk, you'll be saying "Pprrrrrrrrrrr!!" just let it roll, like you speaking Espanol :wink:

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Chris Andersen

Yeah, I always do that at the games hah. CA-CAW, Prrrrrrr!

If you give all of Carter's minutes to Birdman, that ruins the rotation... they'd need to play Kleiza at SG or something, and that's an unmitigated disaster. They only have two SGs on the roster and Jones starts, so there's only one other guy who can fill that role off the bench, and that's JR.

You can give Kleiza's minutes to Bird easier (they were mostly given to Bird and Jones in the Hornets series), but we would have to then play 'Melo tons of minutes so that he's out with the bench most of the time also and we can't afford to have a non-threat playing SF...

I'm REALLY not convinced of that Martin at SF lineup you're hot on. I understand that you think it gives lots of size, but Martin is WAY better at defending bigger slower guys than he is at defending quick small ones... his whole advantage on the defensive end is his hands and his quickness, and that's taken away if he's guarding a SF. Add that to the totally anemic offense that the lineup offers and it seems like it would be a disaster... we won't find out though, because it won't see any floor time.

EDIT: Also, I called Carter a turnover machine, but that's not entirely accurate. He is an assist AND turnover machine.. he's near the top in both rankings as a percentage of his possessions... he's 63rd out of 64 in % of possessions ending in a turnover (16.5%) but trails only Jason Kidd, Calderon, and Brevin Knight in % of possessions that end in an assist (38.8%). So he's basically a bad/good kind of player -- but he pushes the offense unlike anybody else on the team and is the only guy who feeds Bird and Martin on the alley-oops, which were a huge part of our offense for the last 5 years and have always been effective with the athletic players we have. He also plays solid man defense on all but the fastest players in the league, including some guys that are much larger than him. In short, Birdman should not get his minutes.

[darrenp1518]

Re: Chris Andersen

Yeah, I always do that at the games hah. CA-CAW, Prrrrrrr!

If you give all of Carter's minutes to Birdman, that ruins the rotation... they'd need to play Kleiza at SG or something, and that's an unmitigated disaster. They only have two SGs on the roster and Jones starts, so there's only one other guy who can fill that role off the bench, and that's JR.

You can give Kleiza's minutes to Bird easier (they were mostly given to Bird and Jones in the Hornets series), but we would have to then play 'Melo tons of minutes so that he's out with the bench most of the time also and we can't afford to have a non-threat playing SF...

I'm REALLY not convinced of that Martin at SF lineup you're hot on. I understand that you think it gives lots of size, but Martin is WAY better at defending bigger slower guys than he is at defending quick small ones... his whole advantage on the defensive end is his hands and his quickness, and that's taken away if he's guarding a SF. Add that to the totally anemic offense that the lineup offers and it seems like it would be a disaster... we won't find out though, because it won't see any floor time.

EDIT: Also, I called Carter a turnover machine, but that's not entirely accurate. He is an assist AND turnover machine.. he's near the top in both rankings as a percentage of his possessions... he's 63rd out of 64 in % of possessions ending in a turnover (16.5%) but trails only Jason Kidd, Calderon, and Brevin Knight in % of possessions that end in an assist (38.8%). So he's basically a bad/good kind of player -- but he pushes the offense unlike anybody else on the team and is the only guy who feeds Bird and Martin on the alley-oops, which were a huge part of our offense for the last 5 years and have always been effective with the athletic players we have. He also plays solid man defense on all but the fastest players in the league, including some guys that are much larger than him. In short, Birdman should not get his minutes.

Ok well i can understand all of you guys arguments and thats fine that you guys dont see it my way as coach karl obviously doesn't. But he's a weapon and mark my words if he's picked up by a team like the hornets in place of tyson chandler as just one example, although not really a realistic one....he would be an ALLSTAR

I know you guys call me crazy but i know talent when i see it and he has a much better offensive game than you give him credit for. he has a decent jumper although u would leave him open all day

And thats not true about kenyon martin IMO, i think he can guard josh howard just as effectively as he could guard dirk nowitzki....he'll give lebron the best one on one matchup defensively that you will see because he's much quicker than you think.

And i dont understand how you can say there will be no offense with a lineup of billups, smith, martin, andersen, and nene???? I just dont see what you guys see.
For one billups and smith on the floor at the same time could have 3 nbdl players on the floor with them at the same time and have no problem getting off shots. But when you throw in three guys that will tear down the offensive glass plus nene with a solid post game?? i just dont agree