How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

[Da_Czar]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

I hate artifical sportsmanship, you should only track down the player and say "good game or congratulations" if you really mean it. The tradition should be to clear the floor as soon as possible so they can celebrate or them heading to the lockerroom as soon as possible to celebrate.

Good discussion. I'm coming in a bit late. However, Tehova brings up a good point that I think relates back to Born and others posts about working with kids.

Character is something that is molded by your decisions to perform certain actions repeatedly. If we start with children when they are younger and force them to do what should be done because it is right. They learn the habit of being a good sportsman. When they first do it in most instances it is because they were told to do so. But as they grow and mature then hopefully they understand and learn to respect their opponent and in that respect you give what it is you want in return which is a heartfelt congratulations between competitors.

If they had proper training and reinforcement as a youth then they would mean it as an adult. As a one man to another you were better than me today. That takes a type of character rarely seen by todays youth who mistake gangsterism for manhood

I find this topic fascinating because I see a bigger issue here. One too big for this topic yet it rests right on it. What is the definition of a man ?(or sportsman)How does a man handle himself in victory but most importantly defeat ?

This quote puts it all in perspective for me

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

Martin Luther King Jr

[Brankles]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

On point as usual, Czar.

I truly believe that quote you posted by MLK. It's easy to be a good person when the situation is good. It's when the weather is cloudy and the times are rough when you can really judge the character of a person. The best friends are the friends who are there when you're most in need, and the most honorable men are the ones who are able to stand strong in adversity.

In the case of LeBron, I feel like he's just one of those kids you're talking about, and that he simply needs to grow up. He didn't understand the situation in its full perspective and in a moment of emotional immaturity, slithered away and hid. In his youth, I doubt sportsmanship was taught to him the way it was taught to other, more responsible players, like a Ray Allen or Yao Ming.

[mgoblue]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

On point as usual, Czar.

I truly believe that quote you posted by MLK. It's easy to be a good person when the situation is good. It's when the weather is cloudy and the times are rough when you can really judge the character of a person. The best friends are the friends who are there when you're most in need, and the most honorable men are the ones who are able to stand strong in adversity.

In the case of LeBron, I feel like he's just one of those kids you're talking about, and that he simply needs to grow up. He didn't understand the situation in its full perspective and in a moment of emotional immaturity, slithered away and hid. In his youth, I doubt sportsmanship was taught to him the way it was taught to other, more responsible players, like a Ray Allen or Yao Ming.

The sad thing is that there's no one in Cleveland to tell him "no" or to teach him what's right. His teammates won't do jack, his coach won't do jack, the rest of the organization won't do jack. They don't want to scare him into leaving.

I understand his emotions and where he's coming from, but a grown man is able to control those and act in a proper manner...he just has to grow up. I just don't know if this will really teach him anything.

[HMcCoy]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

On point as usual, Czar.

I truly believe that quote you posted by MLK. It's easy to be a good person when the situation is good. It's when the weather is cloudy and the times are rough when you can really judge the character of a person. The best friends are the friends who are there when you're most in need, and the most honorable men are the ones who are able to stand strong in adversity.

In the case of LeBron, I feel like he's just one of those kids you're talking about, and that he simply needs to grow up. He didn't understand the situation in its full perspective and in a moment of emotional immaturity, slithered away and hid. In his youth, I doubt sportsmanship was taught to him the way it was taught to other, more responsible players, like a Ray Allen or Yao Ming.

So what lessons are reflected when he has shown great sportsmanship for the other 98.6% of the time? Was he not "grown up" before? Benjamin Buttons thing going on? Czar made an excellent point, but has James done this enough times to really put him in that "no home training" category so to speak?

Again, until he makes this a regular habit, game in and game out, judging his upbringing is a bit presumptuous, IMO. He made a mistake, magnified by the stage its on. You can get on T-Mac for being gutless because hes failed not once or twice...he's failed every time. Shaq hasn't taken shots at guys once or twice...hes taken shots for his whole career. Bron has handled himself extremely well so far, and he's got a TON more snubs to dish out before you can start making that who he is.

I hate what he did, but please be fair in your assessments folks.

[Brankles]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

So what lessons are reflected when he has shown great sportsmanship for the other 98.6% of the time? Was he not "grown up" before? Benjamin Buttons thing going on? Czar made an excellent point, but has James done this enough times to really put him in that "no home training" category so to speak?

Again, until he makes this a regular habit, game in and game out, judging his upbringing is a bit presumptuous, IMO. He made a mistake, magnified by the stage its on. You can get on T-Mac for being gutless because hes failed not once or twice...he's failed every time. Shaq hasn't taken shots at guys once or twice...hes taken shots for his whole career. Bron has handled himself extremely well so far, and he's got a TON more snubs to dish out before you can start making that who he is.

I hate what he did, but please be fair in your assessments folks.

You can't get on TMac for what he's done. He's shown class in every situation he's been in. Just because he hasn't won basketball games in certain situations doesn't mean he's gutless. If that's the case, then Charles Barkley, John Stockton, and Karl Malone are all gutless losers, too. You're confusing on the court success with a person's character. That's a whole 'nother debate entirely.

You can, however, get on Shaq because he goes behind people's backs and talks about them. He will run his mouth off just for the sake of getting attention. It's a flaw, but it doesn't mean Shaq is not a real man.

In LeBron's case, it's the same. He's generally a good guy, doesn't put other people down in public or talk behind his teammates backs. But he screwed up here and what he did was wrong. In the lowest point of his season, he chickened out and ran to the locker room. It wasn't 98.6% of losses. It was that rare situation when a player's season is ended, where there is total disappointment, when there is nothing left to do but shake a man's hand, brush it off and move on, and he failed to do that.

Like Czar's quote, in the lowest of times is when you can best judge a person's character and this was LeBron's lowest point and he failed to deliver. Now it's time to man up and learn the lesson so many people here on this message board and all over the country are trying to teach him, and a good lesson at that.

You, like the people that are around LeBron who won't give him the honest truth, are trying to blow it off like it's nothing. It's up to him to grow from his mistakes, and if no one will recognize them because he typically does the right thing, then it's not going to happen.

[HMcCoy]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

You can't get on TMac for what he's done. He's shown class in every situation he's been in. Just because he hasn't won basketball games in certain situations doesn't mean he's gutless. If that's the case, then Charles Barkley, John Stockton, and Karl Malone are all gutless losers, too. You're confusing on the court success with a person's character. That's a whole 'nother debate entirely.

You can, however, get on Shaq because he goes behind people's backs and talks about them. He will run his mouth off just for the sake of getting attention. It's a flaw, but it doesn't mean Shaq is not a real man.

In LeBron's case, it's the same. He's generally a good guy, doesn't put other people down in public or talk behind his teammates backs. But he screwed up here and what he did was wrong. In the lowest point of his season, he chickened out and ran to the locker room. It wasn't 98.6% of losses. It was that rare situation when a player's season is ended, where there is total disappointment, when there is nothing left to do but shake a man's hand, brush it off and move on, and he failed to do that.

Like Czar's quote, in the lowest of times is when you can best judge a person's character and this was LeBron's lowest point and he failed to deliver. Now it's time to man up and learn the lesson so many people here on this message board and all over the country are trying to teach him, and a good lesson at that.

You, like the people that are around LeBron who won't give him the honest truth, are trying to blow it off like it's nothing. It's up to him to grow from his mistakes, and if no one will recognize them because he typically does the right thing, then it's not going to happen.

Show me where I said it's nothing, lol. Don't generalize.

No one is on board with what he's done. At most a few competetive people have said they've made the same mistake, and that they understand or can relate. Its not some corruption of morals or that he has no one teaching him anything. You're making questionable leaps in logic, based on piggybacking Czar's thoughts. Based on your own post this was an extreme situation. He was pissy at the time of his biggest failure. If he does this every single time he has these monumental letdowns, then you can make a case that when things are at their absolute worst, he pouts. Don't be mad or surprised if people don't see that as a big deal, because I'm not mad or surprised his haters like Skippy B are making it out to be a terrorist attack. If you do care, thats fine...but you may never see him in that position again if he continues to get better and the Cavs get him some more help...so you may have a really tough time pointing this finger again, lol.

If you have a kid...you think you're doing a great job with their upbringing, they're doing well in school and is well behaved most of the time...you're not going to run for the Ritalin or beat yourself as a parent on the rare occasions when they act a fool.

If you want to make an honest, objective assumption about his lessons and growth, seeing him do the right thing the vast majority of the time should impact your position shouldn't it?

[Brankles]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

All I'm saying is that he made a mistake, he lacked maturity in this mistake, and he needs people around him to fix this mentality he has going.

If I have a kid and he's acting pissy, I'm going to punish him, teach him what he's done wrong, and hope he learns. If he doesn't, then I punish him until he does. Especially when a child is in a tough/pressure filled situation, that's when they're most likely to make mistakes. Realize your mistake, fix it and move on. When that situation comes up again, don't act like you did before, react in a new way.

And now you're coming up with new justifications, saying this situation might not ever happen again, therefore learning from his most recent mistake holds no importance.

Right now LeBron just needs somebody in his ear about this. I never suggested anything drastic about him or a solution to this problem the way you're making it out to be.

Sensationalism. Starts with the media and then spreads to the masses.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

And now you're coming up with new justifications, saying this situation might not ever happen again, therefore learning from his most recent mistake holds no importance.

NOBODY has justified this whatsoever though. Everybody has said he lacked maturity on his part and that he was more wrong for his excuse as opposed to the action. Only difference is we're choosing not to write him off just based off THIS particular incident and ignoring the other 98% of the time when he DIDN'T do this.

I don't think it's justifying the situation by saying it may never happen again because it might not. If this SAME situation happens next year where the Cavs season is ending in the playoffs and this time Lebron DOES shake the opposing team's hand, is it fair to say that he DID learn his leason from this or will he still be that same sore loser?

[HMcCoy]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

NOBODY has justified this whatsoever though. Everybody has said he lacked maturity on his part and that he was more wrong for his excuse as opposed to the action. Only difference is we're choosing not to write him off just based off THIS particular incident and ignoring the other 98% of the time when he DIDN'T do this.

I don't think it's justifying the situation by saying it may never happen again because it might not. If this SAME situation happens next year where the Cavs season is ending in the playoffs and this time Lebron DOES shake the opposing team's hand, is it fair to say that he DID learn his leason from this or will he still be that same sore loser?

Exactly.

[Brankles]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

NOBODY has justified this whatsoever though. Everybody has said he lacked maturity on his part and that he was more wrong for his excuse as opposed to the action. Only difference is we're choosing not to write him off just based off THIS particular incident and ignoring the other 98% of the time when he DIDN'T do this.

I don't think it's justifying the situation by saying it may never happen again because it might not. If this SAME situation happens next year where the Cavs season is ending in the playoffs and this time Lebron DOES shake the opposing team's hand, is it fair to say that he DID learn his leason from this or will he still be that same sore loser?

But there is a feeling of justification in that line "He probably will never be in this situation again if he and the Cavs get better," as if to give him a free pass because of the emotional weight of losing in the Conference Finals. Just because dude lost in an intense environment, one that he may never be in again, doesn't mean it's alright to do. If it happens again, it's a huge step back, solidifying his showing of immaturity and lack of sportsmanship. If he tries to justify it again the same way he did this year, after the fact, I will have lost a ton of respect for him as a person. As of now, he's just a kid who couldn't handle having his season ended early.

And who is writing the guy off? Please show me where I've done that.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

Great, great post, Czar.

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

Good discussion. I'm coming in a bit late. However, Tehova brings up a good point that I think relates back to Born and others posts about working with kids.

Character is something that is molded by your decisions to perform certain actions repeatedly. If we start with children when they are younger and force them to do what should be done because it is right. They learn the habit of being a good sportsman. When they first do it in most instances it is because they were told to do so. But as they grow and mature then hopefully they understand and learn to respect their opponent and in that respect you give what it is you want in return which is a heartfelt congratulations between competitors.

If they had proper training and reinforcement as a youth then they would mean it as an adult. As a one man to another you were better than me today. That takes a type of character rarely seen by todays youth who mistake gangsterism for manhood

I find this topic fascinating because I see a bigger issue here. One too big for this topic yet it rests right on it. What is the definition of a man ?(or sportsman)How does a man handle himself in victory but most importantly defeat ?

This quote puts it all in perspective for me

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

Martin Luther King Jr

Epic post.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

But there is a feeling of justification in that line "He probably will never be in this situation again if he and the Cavs get better," as if to give him a free pass

That how YOU probably interpreted that but again, nobody is justifying this at all. We know he ****ed up even more with the stupid excuse he gave after the fact and i'm pretty sure NOW he knows ****ed up too. What me, HMac, and other folks in here were saying that if the SAME situation comes up next season but he does the opposite then it's safe to say that he has learned his lesson from this. The only people who think he WON'T learn from this are also probably the same people who are going to be watching every Cavs game next year to see if he is going to get caught slipping by not shaking hands and then that person can say, "See I told you he didn't learn. He just did it again." Again, based on the other 98% of the time he did shake hands, I think he's earned the right to prove people wrong and at least TRY to change people's perception of him being a sore loser.

I didn't say you WERE trying to write him off but based on reading the post I quoted earlier and then saying

Sensationalism. Starts with the media and then spreads to the masses.

It's almost as if you're saying the Media is affecting our decision and that you don't think he'll learn from this. If i'm wrong then what was the point of saying that then?

[Brankles]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

Maybe I've had a few too many, but I don't get the point of your post, Pack. At this point if I respond, I'm simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

I get that you're saying to give him another chance and then judge from there, but until that time comes, I know what I know. He made a mistake, waited a day, and then stood by his mistake. He then followed this all up by writing an EMAIL to Dwight Howard. This is bad. I'm giving him a chance to recover from this, not repeat it. He's got to prove he's a good sportsman now, not just wait it out until we forget about it.

Maybe I'm a vindistic person, but certain actions from people really stand out to me, and this is one of those actions. What makes it worse is that it's spreading to the mentality of our youth as an acceptable thing to do.

I sound like a broken record now, as I think I've made every point I can think of. I'll keep up the discussion because it's an interesting one, but I don't know what else I can say at this point.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: How do you feel about congratulating your opponent after a loss?

Nobody is arguing(word gets thrown around too easily) though man. It's a simple discussion that people are having regarding this.

. I'm giving him a chance to recover from this, not repeat it. He's got to prove he's a good sportsman now, not just wait it out until we forget about it.

No you aren't because you keep saying people are justifying this when we're not LOL.

I get that you're saying to give him another chance and then judge from there, but until that time comes, I know what I know.

Is it safe for me or anybody else to call Dwight a dirty player if you're calling Lebron a sore loser of this one incident? I mean Dwight did purposly throw an elbow at Dalembert in the 1st Round AFTER his basket was already good.

He made a mistake, waited a day, and then stood by his mistake. He then followed this all up by writing an EMAIL to Dwight Howard. This is bad.

We've ALL acknowledged he was wrong in this regard and have said this was worse than the action ITSELF.

He's got to prove he's a good sportsman now, not just wait it out until we forget about it.

You want him to show up at Game 2 and shake Dwight's hand to make up for not doing in Game 6? Otherwise we have no choice BUT to wait until this scenario happens again.

I sound like a broken record now,

Took the words right out my mouth because at this point, it seems you're content with Lebron being "Guilty until proven innocent" because of this one incident.

But im done though. If anybody makes some points that I agree with, i'll just post a simple "I agree" under the quote instead of repeating the samething and what others have been saying all along.