Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

[AlexBrady]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

Rip wasn't a better player than Ray back when Ray was in his prime, but that's not the case anymore. Ray Ray is an aging, borderline-washed up player these days who has his occasional brilliance which somehow overshadows the many games where you wonder if he even showed up to play. Rip is a far more consistent offensive threat than Ray is now.

And Rondo isn't that much better than Stuckey. In fact, I'd say that Stuckey has the better all-around offensive game now. It's not tough to rack up good assists numbers when you have the luxury to pass the basketball to good one-on-one players like PP or a pick & pop player like KG early in the shot clock while running half-court offense, or to House for 3s in transition. Even Stuck's suspect J is better than Rondo's almost non-existent J. Stuck just doesn't make the large number of risky gambles on the defensive end that Rondo does which leads to Rodo's many steals.

Kruza

While Rip Hamilton is a good player he never was and never will be better than Ray Allen is. Hamilton moves off of screens very well and cuts and curls his way into open looks impressively. Allen however, uses screens and pin downs masterfully and is the best mover off of the ball in the NBA. Hamilton isn't very strong so he can't play body up defense on many players but he is long enough to disrupt shots so he is a decent defender.

As a defender Ray Allen is quite decent and can stay in front of his check consistently. His baseline rotations are more on point than Hamilton's are. Allen is also capable of using his body to box out stronger players on the boards. In addition Ray is a far superior 3 point shooter (Hamilton has the edge in the mid range game) and is better at creating his own shot off the dribble. It also can't be overstated how intelligent Allen is. Knowing where his shots are going to come from, understanding refs and players tendencees, and his execution of sets down the stretch is unmatched.

In the clutch Allen is terrific, Hamilton is very good as well. And both are consistent.

[AtlantaFalconFan]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

trade delonte west for ray allen or rip hamilton and we have a deal.... lol i know i know its celtics and pistons thread.

[cam21224]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

I'm not talking about that rubbish deal with DET. That's never going down.

I'm referring to the fact that BOS is apparently looking to break this team up.. for what though?

No team is going to give up 4 starters for Rondo and Ray so Ainge can keep dreaming.

If I was C's fan I would be really pissed if this deal was to actually go down. Especially if it was to come down to the Lakers and Celtics in the 2010 NBA Finals.

Rondo is closing in on becoming a All-Star Pg, that's where the Celtics have the edge over the Lakers. We struggle against teams with good Pg's who can penitrate the lanes and make things happen for their self or for their teammates.

If he works on his med-range game a lil bit more this off-season it would be tough for the Lakers to beat them or for any other team in the League to beat them.

If Ainge makes this deal, then the Celtics chances to win the title decreases. Sure a healthy KG was the missing part that derailed the Celtics from being able to defend their title but getting Stuckey to take the place of Rondo is basically getting someone similar to Rondo before he brokeout into a great player this year.

Would you trade a guy on the brink of becoming a top Pg for a un-proven one?

I would keep Rondo, Stuckey seems to similar to the Rondo before this year. Their both not great shooters but Rondo can improve in that area in time and the guy flat out does more & is 5x better then Stuckey.

[jake44np]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

[QUOTE=Kruza;2039740777]Rip wasn't a better player than Ray back when Ray was in his prime, but that's not the case anymore. Ray Ray is an aging, borderline-washed up player these days who has his occasional brilliance which somehow overshadows the many games where you wonder if he even showed up to play. Rip is a far more consistent offensive threat than Ray is now.

And Rondo isn't that much better than Stuckey. In fact, I'd say that Stuckey has the better all-around offensive game now. It's not tough to rack up good assists numbers when you have the luxury to pass the basketball to good one-on-one players like PP or a pick & pop player like KG early in the shot clock while running half-court offense, or to House for 3s in transition. Even Stuck's suspect J is better than Rondo's almost non-existent J. Stuck just doesn't make the large number of risky gambles on the defensive end that Rondo does which leads to Rodo's many steals.

You go on believing that Stuck is better than Rondo, homer!! lol Just kidding.
Did you even watch the Playoffs this year??

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

Eh I don't know. Prince and Rip would still tip the scales and give the Celtics the advantage if the trade went down. Stuckey's not exactly like Rondo. His shot is at least somewhat respectable.

[Lynsanity]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

Plus, you have to think that if this deal went down, it would not be too crazy for Jason Kidd to come in for a ring.

1- Kidd
2- Hamilton
3- Pierce
4- KG
5- Perkins

6- Prince
7- Stuckey
8- Davis

Add one more Big man to the rotation, and you have a pretty scary team...

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

If I was C's fan I would be really pissed if this deal was to actually go down. Especially if it was to come down to the Lakers and Celtics in the 2010 NBA Finals.

Rondo is closing in on becoming a All-Star Pg, that's where the Celtics have the edge over the Lakers. We struggle against teams with good Pg's who can penitrate the lanes and make things happen for their self or for their teammates.

If he works on his med-range game a lil bit more this off-season it would be tough for the Lakers to beat them or for any other team in the League to beat them.

If Ainge makes this deal, then the Celtics chances to win the title decreases. Sure a healthy KG was the missing part that derailed the Celtics from being able to defend their title but getting Stuckey to take the place of Rondo is basically getting someone similar to Rondo before he brokeout into a great player this year.

Would you trade a guy on the brink of becoming a top Pg for a un-proven one?

I would keep Rondo, Stuckey seems to similar to the Rondo before this year. Their both not great shooters but Rondo can improve in that area in time and the guy flat out does more & is 5x better then Stuckey.

One option would possibly be starting Marbury, if he gets back into shape and plays within the offense. Stuckey could then come off the bench with the second unit and make some noise.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

So you go from trading a potential all star to starting a 33 year old Marbury, who hasn't played a full season in almost 3 years and still expect to win a championship with that squad?

And I must be the only one that thinks Rondo and Stuckey are not the same player at all.

[chance]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

And I must be the only one that thinks Rondo and Stuckey are not the same player at all.

They are not the same player but theres not that much of a difference

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

I'm not sayin Stuckey is better at all but I do think Rondo is very overrated. I don't know. I don't see him as a top 5 PG right now. In the future, sure, but not yet.

[luv_mist]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

I think Rondo is freaking overrated. Calling it what it is. Yeah, he did a number on the Bulls, but we're not fully healthy ourselves. Heck, I'd take Stuckey only because he's a better defender and he's a bigger body. He's a SG with handles. I think that he'd cause a great mismatch against most teams because he gives the size. Stuckey has the potential to be like a Billups imo if he improves his outside shot. I really think that he can step up his game. I think he wasn't ready to step into that starting spot as a point personally.

I'm curious to know if they'll be able to bag anything. Ainge is just trying to bag a dummy like he did with KG. Same as how Los Angeles bagged West by getting Gasol. There might be a slow person out there. Just have to find him and speak those sweet things in his ear to get him to fall for it. I just hope it isn't a Chicago guy.

[BTB]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

What you guys aren't pointing out is that Rondo is a COMPLETE TRUE point guard (minues shooting of course but that has historically not been necessary from the PG position especially if you have the ability to get anywhere you want on the floor like he does). Stuckey plays nothing like Rondo.

[jfsolo]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

Just throwing out some more wild speculation, is it possible that Rondo got into some kind of beef with KG or Pierce? That is definitely something else that would get him put on eBay.

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

Just throwing out some more wild speculation, is it possible that Rondo got into some kind of beef with KG or Pierce? That is definitely something else that would get him put on eBay.

Pierce loves him, and it seems like he and KG are boys.

[Kruza]

Re: Celtics shop Rondo and Allen Rumor

While Rip Hamilton is a good player he never was and never will be better than Ray Allen is. Hamilton moves off of screens very well and cuts and curls his way into open looks impressively. Allen however, uses screens and pin downs masterfully and is the best mover off of the ball in the NBA. Hamilton isn't very strong so he can't play body up defense on many players but he is long enough to disrupt shots so he is a decent defender.

As a defender Ray Allen is quite decent and can stay in front of his check consistently. His baseline rotations are more on point than Hamilton's are. Allen is also capable of using his body to box out stronger players on the boards. In addition Ray is a far superior 3 point shooter (Hamilton has the edge in the mid range game) and is better at creating his own shot off the dribble. It also can't be overstated how intelligent Allen is. Knowing where his shots are going to come from, understanding refs and players tendencees, and his execution of sets down the stretch is unmatched.

In the clutch Allen is terrific, Hamilton is very good as well. And both are consistent.

I can agree with most of what you’re saying here in comparing these players. But although he stepped it up for several games in the playoffs, Ray Allen has way more off games than Rip Hamilton during the course of an entire season (regular + postseason). That’s not the sign of consistency to me.

You go on believing that Stuck is better than Rondo, homer!! lol Just kidding.
Did you even watch the Playoffs this year??

I sure did watch the playoffs. And I mean what I say about Stuck being a better all-around offensive player. Stuck can even posts smaller guards up too like Billups was doing for the Pistons, but then floor spacing would be messed up as opposing teams would rather clog the lane and allow the big men shoot from the perimeter instead of mix it up inside for rebounds. So the Pistons would essentially get killed on the boards.

One option would possibly be starting Marbury, if he gets back into shape and plays within the offense. Stuckey could then come off the bench with the second unit and make some noise.

Do you really believe that Marbury would start over Stuckey if Stuckey were on Boston?

What you guys aren't pointing out is that Rondo is a COMPLETE TRUE point guard (minues shooting of course but that has historically not been necessary from the PG position especially if you have the ability to get anywhere you want on the floor like he does). Stuckey plays nothing like Rondo.

That “complete true point guard” argument is a cop out excuse.

The only main difference is the type of plays and the tempo these teams run for the respective players. On most of their possessions, the Celtics run plays away from Rondo. But when things break down without a shot being taken and the shot clock is dwindling, Rondo -– as the last option -- will often get the basketball back, put his head down and take it to the hoop. Meanwhile, the Pistons run a significant number of high pick & roll plays during a game which required Stuckey to have the ball in his hands from the beginning of a possession and put immediate pressure on him to make the right decisions and execute the play. The Celtics have more big men like Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis and Leon Powe who will actually go to the basket, catch any dump-off passes Rondo makes in traffic cleanly and finish, unlike many of the Pistons bigs aside from Jason Maxiell. Antonio McDyess, Amir Johnson and Kwame Brown often fumbled the basketball on the catch, and Rasheed Wallace preferred to stay out on the perimeter instead of cut to the basket. So Stuck has to force up more awkward layups over multiple defenders because the bigs on his team often didn’t do their part to become reliable inside finishers.

Also, depending on the opponent they’re playing against, the Celtics could choose to push the ball up the court lot more often than the Pistons, who had to slow it down mainly so the aging bigs on this team wouldn’t tire out by the second half. With more possessions during the course of a game, there are opportunities for players on that team to rack up more points and more assists. This contributes to the number of breakaway layups Rondo gets in comparison to Stuck. And how did Rondo score the majority of his points during the 2009 Playoffs? Breakaway layups. Allow Stuck to frequently push the ball up the court with guys who can run and shoot 3s in transition, and the results (points & assists numbers) would be similar for him as they were for Rondo this past season.

Point blank, Stuckey could and would be able to run everything for the Celtics that Rondo does for them now. GM Danny Ainge and Coach Doc Rivers knows this, and that’s why they included both of these players in this proposed trade.

Kruza