All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

[ZB9]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Better defensively. Period. Dirk is slightly better than KG offensively...And he spreads out the defense. But KG's defense is just as important as offense. So yeah he is the better player.

Personally I would rather have Dirk because he is not a ignorant taunting fool. But there is no doubt KG is better than Dirk.

I can see why you would think Garnett is better...but im curious, did you think KG was better than Dirk before Garnett won a championship?

because when Garnett was the #1 in Minnesota, there were times when he couldnt get his team into the playoffs, and he only got them out of the first round once. KG certainly couldnt contain Dirk when they went head to head, good defender or not.

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

I can see why you would think Garnett is better...but im curious, did you think KG was better than Dirk before Garnett won a championship?

because when Garnett was the #1 in Minnesota, there were times when he couldnt get his team into the playoffs, and he only got them out of the first round once. KG certainly couldnt contain Dirk when they went head to head, good defender or not.

Yes.

Well he basically had nobody on his team...Unlike the Mavs.

Name a player who cannot contain Dirk offensively...I am curious I would like to hear it. I never doubted Dirks offensive game.

[ZB9]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Yes.

Well he basically had nobody on his team...Unlike the Mavs.

that has been overstated. His supporting cast in Minnesota wasnt ever great by any means obviously, but some of those Wolves had some solid players on their roster.

Garnett missed the playoffs with a couple of teams that were not much worse than last season's injury laden Mavs squad....unless you think an injured Josh Howard is much better than Latrell Sprewell was in his prime.

The Mavs last season were better than those Wolves teams that missed the playoffs, but that is probably offset by the strength of the western conference last season. The conference was strong when Garnett was in Minnesota, but not top to bottom like it was last season.

Dallas fought through injuries all last season, but Nowitzki closed the season out scoring over 20 points for 28 straight games (longest such streak in the league last season) to get the Mavs to a 6 seed. I have a feeling that if in the same situation, Garnett would have folded up his tent for the rest of the season like he often seemed to do in Minnesota.

Name a player who cannot contain Dirk offensively...I am curious I would like to hear it. I never doubted Dirks offensive game.

you mean that can contain him? It's pretty rare

anyway, here is the reason "basketball-reference.com" gives for Dirk coming out with a higher number in their formula than KG

Reaction #2: How can you have Dirk Nowitzki over Kevin Garnett?

In my opinion, Nowitzki, although thought of highly by most people, still manages to be underrated.

Consider:

Nowitzki earned a decade-best 137.6 Win Shares during the regular season.

Nowitzki finished fifth in the decade with 17.4 playoff Win Shares, but while Nowitzki played in only 97 playoff games, no one above him played him in fewer than 133 games.

Nowitzki is an almost perfect blend of productivity and efficiency. Among players with at least 400 games played during the decade, he had the 15th-highest usage percentage, the 8th-lowest turnover percentage, and the 6th-highest offensive rating.

The Mavericks have won 50 or more games nine consecutive seasons, including seasons of 60 and 67 wins after losing two-time MVP Steve Nash. The one constant during this streak? Nowitzki.

None of this is meant to slight Garnett, who I think is a great player. I just think — and this system happens to agree — that Nowitzki was a little bit greater.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Instead of coming up with the same exact posts I use to defend Dirk Nowitzki, just search my post history, because defending him against baseless and ridiculous accusations is getting really tiring.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Does AlexBrady forget the many clutch shots Dirk has had in the playoffs, or the time when he scored 50 points against the Suns in a big playoff game? (sorry matrix)

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Lets agree to disagree. I do not feel like writing 2 paragraphs about how much better KG is than Dirk. Because you are obviously a Texas guy, so it's impossible to change you're mind.

[PrettyT11]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

You got to have KG over Dirk. KG was a far better all around player. His defense and rebounding was leaps and bounds ahead of Dirk and he was also a better passer. People forget that when KG was with the T-Wolves he was the best rebounder in the league. The only guy you could put up thier with him is Big Ben. KG lead the league in rebounding his last 4 seasons with the Wolves. Not to mention the All NBA level defense. He is the only man is history to put up 20,10, and 5 in 6 straight years and did 20,10,and 4 in 9 straight. The only man close to that is Larry.

While DIrk has been great his all around game is not even close to the level of KG's. Dirk would be easily on the second team though. The first team belongs to Duncan and KG.

[PrettyT11]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

As far as the list as a whole it is pretty horrible. There is no way in hell Billups is the second best guard this decade. He would be lucky to make third team at best. The very second that formula put him ahead of the likes of Kidd, Nash, and Iverson it should have been ripped up and then burned. Hell before he came to Detroit he was being looked at like a journeyman and a bust for a number 3 pick.

Then the fact that Iverson is nowhere to be found is just as bad if not worse. His numbers and such speak for themselves. It pretty horrible for him not to even be listed.

I'm also with Ex on the Ben Wallace thing. There is no way he is a top 10 player over the past decade. Especially when his last 4 years have been pretty bad. His impact was only on one end of the floor. His four year run with Pistons is not enough for him to be ranked that high.

[ZB9]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

As far as the list as a whole it is pretty horrible. There is no way in hell Billups is the second best guard this decade. He would be lucky to make third team at best. The very second that formula put him ahead of the likes of Kidd, Nash, and Iverson it should have been ripped up and then burned. Hell before he came to Detroit he was being looked at like a journeyman and a bust for a number 3 pick.

Then the fact that Iverson is nowhere to be found is just as bad if not worse. His numbers and such speak for themselves. It pretty horrible for him not to even be listed.

I'm also with Ex on the Ben Wallace thing. There is no way he is a top 10 player over the past decade. Especially when his last 4 years have been pretty bad. His impact was only on one end of the floor. His four year run with Pistons is not enough for him to be ranked that high.

their formula is based mostly on regular season and playoff "win shares". I agree that that the list as a whole seems really flawed when you see players like Wallace on the second team, Billups on the first team, and Iverson not even on the list.

it's interesting to see what players had the best "win shares" of the decade...but the way they calculate win shares might be messed up in the first place.

[AlexBrady]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

lol I have no idea where you get that BS Alex.

If Dirk hasnt been clutch in his career, then there havent been many "clutch" players in the league.

why dont you list some players that have been more clutch than Dirk. There shouldnt be more than a handful on your list

From watching his career performances in money situations is how I came to that conclusion ZB. He can and certainly will come through (06 playoffs up to the finals). However, he has failed more times than not (07 Warriors, NBA Finals, 05 playoffs). And when he struggles he tends to hang his head in defeat which sends a rather negative message to his teammates. A very good player but he would best be suited as a second option.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

The Dirk is not clutch thing is hilarious to read.

OK I understand if you think KG had the better decade, but to give reasoning claiming that Dirk isn't clutch is hilarious.

Personally I believe KG to have had the better decade simply because of defense. It's extremely close between the two players, but KG is on the first team because he can anchor a defense. His offense was also much much better before joining the Celtics.

The list isn't bad at all in terms of the top 15.

My list isn't that much different

1st:
Nash
Kobe
KG
Duncan
Shaq

2nd:
Kidd
Ray
LBJ
Dirk
Pau

3rd:
Parker
TMac
PP
Amare
Yao

4th:
Billups
DWade
Vince
Marion
Brand

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Never said he wasnt clutch. Just said he is better...And has had a better career.

[PrettyT11]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

The list isn't bad at all in terms of the top 15.

My list isn't that much different

1st:
Nash
Kobe
KG
Duncan
Shaq

2nd:
Kidd
Ray
LBJ
Dirk
Pau

3rd:
Parker
TMac
PP
Amare
Yao

4th:
Billups
DWade
Vince
Marion
Brand

Where's Iverson??

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

Iverson>Ray>McGrady

[Cebby]

Re: All Decade Team, the 2000s (basketball-reference.com)

From watching his career performances in money situations is how I came to that conclusion ZB. He can and certainly will come through (06 playoffs up to the finals). However, he has failed more times than not (07 Warriors, NBA Finals, 05 playoffs).

I hate all things tejas, but giving Dirk any share of the blame for the 06 Finals is possibly the worst thing I've read on this board.

The only reason Dirk didn't run away with the Finals MVP is a group of people wearing neither teams' jersey.

And in the other argument, AI is easily the fourth best guard of the decade. He's clearly behind Kobe, Kidd, and Nash, but he's clearly above Billups, Wade, TMac, Parker, Manu, and Ray.