The LeBron James Thread

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I'm obviously not talking about his contract, c'mon man. I'm talking about the extra revenue he could earn by playing in New York.

I honestly didn't know what you were talking about, and like I said, this doesn't make much sense either.

This is what I'm saying. It's not about Gatorade and Nike, there are a lot of behind the scenes business affairs that open up if NY is his base of operations. Now that he is officially free and looking like he's gonna leave, my guess is his team is just now getting a sense of how many of those doors will open for him.

I still find it very, very hard to believe that any of these behind the scenes business affairs aren't available if he's even playing in Iraq. It's 2010. Hell, Jordan may have been in DC two whole days (the day he came on board and the day he was let go). I really can't fathom what marketing, business, advertising, etc. deals are better with him in NYC playing for the Knicks, than anywhere else. There really isn't much logic to it. If his "company" needs him to be playing on the Knicks to move forward then it has much bigger problems than which team he'll choose.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

How is my post wrong? It's an opinion, man. You obviously know much more about the Knicks than I do (being serious here), so what's the plan, if they they don't get LeBron this year, and don't throw their capspace at a Boozer/JJ/Gay/Amare? Is the plan to rebuild through the draft, continually shoot for the top free agents every year? What is it?

It's possible they won't be able to rebuild through the draft, and if Walsh is only willing to throw the max at super-elite players then that means they're hoping to get Durant and Melo the next year I'm assuming. If they can't get Lebron/Bosh this year, I doubt that they're going to get Durant/Melo next year. but again, you know more than me, so explain the plan, because as I see it, it all really hinged on LeBron, but apparently I'm wrong (which I can admit as long as I can understand).

I never said it was wrong. It's obviously an opinion but I don't agree with a lot of your points - I never said you were wrong. I just feel like you're describing the absolute worst scenario possible.

As for the backup plan, I have no idea and it's still too early to tell anyway. I know CP3 is a trade target that's been involved in rumors but who knows. So much could change between now and 2011. I don't think Walsh even has a back up plan for next year yet.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I really could not disagree with this more. When Walsh came in, he had a roster that could not compete with a bunch of long term contracts preventing him from signing anyone, and a coach driving the team into the ground.

His only play was to erase everything, and build from scratch. He brought in a great coach, got rid of all of the contracts and cleared the table for the biggest free agent offseason in history. No matter what way you slice it, we are in a better situation. Before we were losing and broke. We had no flexibility.

Lebron is the highest talent out there right now, but NY doesn't have to win a championship next year. NY just has to improve. We can sign one free agent and then bide our time until more become available. Specifically, Deron and CP3 are both looking at the door already. Whatever opportunities arise, the Knicks will be prepared for them, because they have the money, the market, the management and the coach in place to build something.

Walsh's only mistake was not drafting Brandon Jennings. Everything else has been excellent. People forget that Eddy Curry's contract can bring in a few more roleplayers to flesh out our squad.

Worst case scenario is that "The Plan" gets delayed a summer or two, but ultimately, the Knicks are on the road to be a competitive team in one to three years. As it is, Walsh didn't expect to be able to afford two free agents. I'm still of the mind that JJ will not get max money. I think his asking price will be forced down once he becomes the last biscuit on the table after everyone is full. The only way they can screw this up is by paying someone money they don't deserve. If the Knicks spend wisely, they'll be fine.

I agree they are in a better position now then they would have been, as they actually have a legit shot at LeBron (I won't be shocked if he ends up in NY), so maybe the NY media is to blame for setting expectations so high, and not Walsh. Either way, if LeBron does not go to NY, I can't see them being a contender in 1-3 years. That's where we disagree.

Also, I think that since there are so many "buyers" this year, JJ will get a max or near-max contract (maybe from NY, maybe not). After Bron, Wade and the elite bigs are gone, there will be plenty of people left holding the bag... filled with money. I can see someone throwing some at him.

Also, if NY sits on the money this year, won't they lose some of it since the cap is going to be smaller next year, meaning they will have less money to put a team together next year than they have this year.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I honestly didn't know what you were talking about, and like I said, this doesn't make much sense either.



I still find it very, very hard to believe that any of these behind the scenes business affairs aren't available if he's even playing in Iraq. It's 2010. Hell, Jordan may have been in DC two whole days (the day he came on board and the day he was let go). I really can't fathom what marketing, business, advertising, etc. deals are better with him in NYC playing for the Knicks, than anywhere else. There really isn't much logic to it. If his "company" needs him to be playing on the Knicks to move forward then it has much bigger problems than which team he'll choose.

it's not about marketing/advertising, it's about businesses. Businesses negotiations often involve very few people in the room. In New York, you're talking about old money, and a few people controlling that old money. Those people won't open their pockets and/or real estate for Lebron unless he's able to attach New York to his brand and vice versa. They trust his celebrity, but likely have a list of things they'd like him to be able to do, and some things on that list require New York to be a part of his brand.

Also, if he's in New York, he doesn't have to worry about a competing brand. Hypothetically, if Dwyane Wade wanted to be a New York based fashion mogul and Lebron wanted the same thing, and Wade signed with the Knicks, what do you think would happen to Lebron's opportunities in New York?

This isn't about simple exposure and popularity. It has to do with branding, which is an unforgiving concept.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I don't think Walsh even has a back up plan for next year yet.

I guess that's kind of my point. No picks, no assets for a sign and trade, and no attractive team to lure free agents is not "the worst case scenario", it's "the scenario" if LeBron ends up signing elsewhere (and Walsh refuses to give max;s to anyone not named Bron-Wade-Bosh). You have David Lee re-upped to a fat contract and a smaller cap under the new CBA which makes signing two max guys and fielding a good team even tougher next year.

If LeBron goes to the land of OZ where everything is in technicolor and he is allowed to visit the man behind the curtain and see all the secret businesses that will open their doors for him, then that's freakin' awesome and you guys will be so ecstatic. However, if he decides that "there's no place like home", I can't see a good backup plan for NY in the near future. That's all.

[NYJets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Also, if NY sits on the money this year, won't they lose some of it since the cap is going to be smaller next year, meaning they will have less money to put a team together next year than they have this year.

Don't know about the cap, but the Knicks would have more money because Curry's contract will expire.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I agree they are in a better position now then they would have been, as they actually have a legit shot at LeBron (I won't be shocked if he ends up in NY), so maybe the NY media is to blame for setting expectations so high, and not Walsh. Either way, if LeBron does not go to NY, I can't see them being a contender in 1-3 years. That's where we disagree.

Also, I think that since there are so many "buyers" this year, JJ will get a max or near-max contract (maybe from NY, maybe not). After Bron, Wade and the elite bigs are gone, there will be plenty of people left holding the bag... filled with money. I can see someone throwing some at him.

Also, if NY sits on the money this year, won't they lose some of it since the cap is going to be smaller next year, meaning they will have less money to put a team together next year than they have this year.

I don't know what media expectations you're referring to. Most of the NY media was merely hopeful that Walsh would eventually get the trash out of the driveway sometime in the next three years. I don't think a single publication thought he'd get rid of EVERYTHING in this one year. He's surpassed all of the expectations I read about in the local media before coming out here to LA.

The only teams I could see overpaying JJ are Cleveland, Chicago and OKC, because he fits so well into their lineups. I don't think New York, New Jersey or Miami would even come close to giving him a max deal, because he is so far from solving their major problems.

If New York somehow wound up with Amar'e and CP3, I think they'd be very competitive, particularly in D'Antoni's system, with an aging Celtics team and a possible Bron-less Cavs.

I'm not the best guy to talk to about the shrinking cap, but since they are also talking about shrinking salaries and a lockout, I don't think anyone knows exactly what the future holds as far as that goes.

I do know that having more money to spend is not a bad thing. New York hasn't had the money to spend for many, many years. I find it strange that people see us going down the same path with a different financial base to work from, and better management.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I honestly didn't know what you were talking about, and like I said, this doesn't make much sense either.

Jesus man, it's a plain sentence. Not even any SAT words in it. I don't know what's so hard to comprehend. You can't see the potential extra earnings - good for you, that's your opinion. I'm pretty sure you're not an expert on New York's economy vs other cities and how it affects megastar athletes especially since you haven't stated a single fact regarding the matter.

I'm not I'm not saying he can earn more in NYC, I'm not saying he can't because no one knows yet. Yet you seem hell bent on forcing everyone to agree that he absolutely cannot earn more $ off the court in NYC when you do nothing more than cite vague examples that are merely an opinion.

There was already and article debating this, where experts weighed in. The opinions varied, from one person feeling LeBron could earn $20m more per year. One guy used the "digital age" angle and said it doesn't matter where LeBron plays. Point is, those guys, who know way the hell more about this stuff than you, are conflicted on the issue.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I don't know what media expectations you're referring to. Most of the NY media was merely hopeful that Walsh would eventually get the trash out of the driveway sometime in the next three years. I don't think a single publication thought he'd get rid of EVERYTHING in this one year. He's surpassed all of the expectations I read about in the local media before coming out here to LA.

The only teams I could see overpaying JJ are Cleveland, Chicago and OKC, because he fits so well into their lineups. I don't think New York, New Jersey or Miami would even come close to giving him a max deal, because he is so far from solving their major problems.

If New York somehow wound up with Amar'e and CP3, I think they'd be very competitive, particularly in D'Antoni's system, with an aging Celtics team and a possible Bron-less Cavs.

I'm not the best guy to talk to about the shrinking cap, but since they are also talking about shrinking salaries and a lockout, I don't think anyone knows exactly what the future holds as far as that goes.

I do know that having more money to spend is not a bad thing. New York hasn't had the money to spend for many, many years. I find it strange that people see us going down the same path with a different financial base to work from, and better management.

By media expectations I mean that I've heard a lot of LeBron to NY talk. "If it's not Cleveland it's NY for LeBron", with the idea that some secret world (always talked about vaguely) will open up for LeBron when he signs with NY. Also, the trading of assets and clearing of cap space was done with this off-season in mind, to land LeBron and another max. Sure Walsh says Bron it's not the end-all be-all, and I agree. If you can land Wade or Durant, that's fine too. But the plan was always to clear space to sign two elite guys. I just wonder how long you can sit on the money, as big names re-up with their own teams or go elsewhere in S&T's to teams with assets.

Also, people on here have said flat out that LeBron, Bosh, Lee, and the rest are not going to compete or do anymore damage than if he stays in Cleveland. Yet, you replace Bron with Paul and Bosh with Amare and all of a sudden, you're contending? Maybe, but I don't see it as Bron and Bosh are better players than Paul and Amare.

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

However, if he decides that "there's no place like home", I can't see a good backup plan for NY in the near future. That's all.

Yes, I agree 100% but as I said above it's too early to have a back up plan for 2011-2012 right now. If we swing and miss on all the FA's then we won't resign Lee and we'll have a horrible team next year and Walsh will spend that time coming up with Plan B.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Yes, I agree 100% but as I said above it's too early to have a back up plan for 2011-2012 right now. If we swing and miss on all the FA's then we won't resign Lee and we'll have a horrible team next year and Walsh will spend that time coming up with Plan B.

You really think they won't try to keep Lee? As this been stated somewhere? If so, then damn. I like him.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Let's assume that Bosh will sign/be traded to the team that LeBron signs with...

Who is the best team with LeBron and Bosh? Knicks? Nets? Bulls? Cavaliers?

[ehh]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

By media expectations I mean that I've heard a lot of LeBron to NY talk. "If it's not Cleveland it's NY for LeBron", with the idea that some secret world (always talked about vaguely) will open up for LeBron when he signs with NY. Also, the trading of assets and clearing of cap space was done with this off-season in mind, to land LeBron and another max. Sure Walsh says Bron it's not the end-all be-all, and I agree. If you can land Wade or Durant, that's fine too. But the plan was always to clear space to sign two elite guys. I just wonder how long you can sit on the money, as big names re-up with their own teams or go elsewhere in S&T's to teams with assets.

This all got way out of control with LeBron's "NY is my favorite city in the world" and the fact that he's a Yankee fan. He's also a Cowboys fan and I don't see him itching to go to Mavericks.

We have the space, LeBron supposedly loves the city of New York. The rest is the idiotic media overblowing the issue like they do with everything else.

As for all the stupid newspaper back covers and stuff like that, that's just how NY does it and half those papers are borderline tabloids anyway. They do anything to get a rise out of ppl (ei: get people to buy their paper). Their shameless.

[Streets]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Let's assume that Bosh will sign/be traded to the team that LeBron signs with...

Who is the best team with LeBron and Bosh? Knicks? Nets? Bulls? Cavaliers?

It depends on where the Nets draft, and what is given up in a S&T.

[Vince]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

You really think they won't try to keep Lee? As this been stated somewhere? If so, then damn. I like him.

I've said it many times...

David Lee at $10 million a year > Chris Bosh at 6 years $123 million.