Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

[Brankles]

Looking at all of these Rondo/Kobe threads, I am constantly debating on how good players are when looking at combined team success and individual success. Kobe Bryant is undoubtedly a great player and is one of the best to play the game. Rajon Rondo is good in his own right, and plays his role well for the Celtics. But one can't help but wonder the "what ifs" of situations, if we would be talking about Kobe or Rondo in the same light if they were on the Timberwolves or Grizzlies.

My definition of being fortunate in the NBA is a combination of having good health, being on good teams with good leadership, being well-coached, and overall having the opportunity to win based on that player's situation. Obviously that player has a lot to do with his own fortune, if he can lead his team to wins or not, play good basketball, and keep chemistry together... but there's only so much one guy can do in his situation.

Example:
Allen Iverson on the Sixers was a somewhat fortunate situation. He played in the East, which was weak at the time and he had good coaching, which allowed him to get to the Finals. However, once making the Finals, he did not have any chance to win against a great Lakers team. Iverson on the Nuggets was a very fortunate situation, but he ruined it for the team by playing sloppy basketball, causing controversy and not winning games. He had a chance to win there but didn't. Iverson on the Pistons/Grizzlies was completely his fault for their failures.


Fortunate list (recent):
Kobe - The years between Shaq and Pau were unfortunate, but other than that he's consistently been on the best teams in the league with Phil Jackson as his coach
Shaq - Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron
Wade (with Shaq) - Great team that really brought him to elite status after he won Finals MVP and got a ring
Rondo - Rondo is considered a top 25 player nowaday by many analysts, mainly because of his team's success.
Paul Pierce (KG/Ray) - Was considered a stat guy until Ainge made some of the best moves in NBA history. Now he's a champion with a Finals MVP.
Parker/Ginobili/Duncan - Great trio of players, very fortunate to have each other. Also, great coaching
Dirk - Great player, but also has played with very good PGs, good role players and has had good coaching and an owner that does anything to win

Unfortunate:
T-Mac - His best teammates in Orlando were Mike Miller, Darrell Armstrong, Drew Gooden and Gordan Giricek. In Houston, his teams suffered from injuries and lack of depth. Maybe the most unfortunate out of all the players, with a combination of health issues, bad teammates, questionable coaching/management, and his best years wasted on mediocre teams
LeBron - His best teammate his whole career has been Mo Williams
Al Jefferson - From the pre-KG/Ray Celtics to the current Timberwolves, Big Al has never had the chance to win
Wade (No Shaq) - Mediocre teams with no PGs and no big men. Has had to carry the teams which results in him being injured constantly and not much success in the wins column
Bosh - Toronto's never been good and is still a questionable team. Coaching changes, soft defensive teammates have left Bosh wanting to leave for a while now
Paul Pierce (Before KG) - Until the acquisition of KG/Ray, Pierce was stuck in a horrible situation. Now that he has the teammates to win championships, he will go down as a HOF'er. He was also stabbed, which sucks.
Elton Brand - One of the best big men in the league at one point, wasted away years in Chicago and on the Clippers. Now he's a shell of his former self.
Andre Miller - IMO, one of the better defensive/passing PGs in the league, but spent a lot of years on a lot of bad teams (many with the black and blue Cavs.) I don't think this guy gets enough credit, and when he finally had the chance to play on above-average teams (Sixers/Blazers), he looked like one of the better PGs in the NBA.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Kobe Bryant is one of most fortunate players the league has ever seen.

He only had 1.5 years of bad coaching/teammates.

Every other year he had one or two or three all-star teammates with decent to HOF coaching.

I honestly cannot think of a more fortunate NBA player off the top of my head.

Except maybe Shaquille O'Neal [active players]

[Jukeman]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Wow...

This thread wont end very well...


AI is fortunate to had play in the East but LBJ is unfortunate???



Opinion threads/what if threads are great..

I wonder where most of the all time greats would land

[st0rmb11]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

yeah, LeBron is unfortunate? he's unfortunate that the Cavs have, 2 years in a row, had the best regular season record, and yet haven't made a bit of noise come the postseason?

LeBron is not unfortunate because of his teammates. the only thing he's unfortunate for is his coach. Mike Brown is a vastly overrated coach, who has no sense of what a professional offense should look like.

Kobe is by far one of the most fortunate players of my life time. Played with a prime Shaq and under the greatest coach ever (IMO) in Phil Jackson, won 3 titles. Then played a few years without those 2, didn't do anything (other than fill up his own scoring stats and make a reputation for himself as a bad teammate). Now, playing with a prime Gasol and he's back under Phil, and he's winning again.


I agree with most of both of your lists (minus LeBron being unfortuate).

Should be an interesting thread though...

[Cebby]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

If you sign a max contract you really cannot be considered "unfortunate."

TMac and Lebron haven't been unfortunate. They have had fine teams.

If anything, TMac is very fortunate that people hate Kobe because 90% of his hype came from people not wanting to admit that Kobe was the best player/scorer in the NBA.

[Vince]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Fortunate: Kwame Brown, Chris Quinn, Eddy Curry.

How they are still in the NBA and not oversees baffles the mind.

[Jukeman]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Fortunate: Kwame Brown, Chris Quinn, Eddy Curry.

How they are still in the NBA and not oversees baffles the mind.

I agree

[Brankles]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Wow...

This thread wont end very well...


AI is fortunate to had play in the East but LBJ is unfortunate???



Opinion threads/what if threads are great..

I wonder where most of the all time greats would land

The teams AI had to face were much less formidable than what LeBron has had to.

LeBron has had worse coaching, better opponents, and their teammates have been about the same. There are some aspects to their situations that are fortunate, but overall I would say both are unfortunate.

If you sign a max contract you really cannot be considered "unfortunate."

TMac and Lebron haven't been unfortunate. They have had fine teams.

If anything, TMac is very fortunate that people hate Kobe because 90% of his hype came from people not wanting to admit that Kobe was the best player/scorer in the NBA.

There are varying degrees of unfortunate. TMac has played on teams barely good enough to make the playoffs. I don't consider making the playoffs as the cutoff for fortunate/unfortunate. Nor do I consider making max money as fortunate when looking at a player's situation as far as team landscape goes. Obviously anyone making millions of dollars to play a game is fortunate, so this is all relative.

[Rocky]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

I think putting Tim Duncan as fortunate is a stretch. I think the Spurs franchise were fortunate for getting him and the other 12 lottery at the time were unfortunate. The guy would've won a ring anywhere.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Fortunate: Kwame Brown, Chris Quinn, Eddy Curry.

How they are still in the NBA and not oversees baffles the mind.

Kwame is still NBA material.

He's a decent defender who can give 10-15 minutes off the bench. Wouldn't want him playing any more than that though.

As far as Duncan, I think it's a stretch to say "he would have won a ring anywhere".

[ehh]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Jerome James is probably the most fortunate NBA player in history.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Jerome James is probably the most fortunate NBA player in history.

Tough debate IMO between James, Austin Croshere, Darius Miles, Bobby Simmons and Jim McCalvaine

[wwharton]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Kobe Bryant is one of most fortunate players the league has ever seen.

He only had 1.5 years of bad coaching/teammates.

Every other year he had one or two or three all-star teammates with decent to HOF coaching.

I honestly cannot think of a more fortunate NBA player off the top of my head.

Except maybe Shaquille O'Neal [active players]

How about Derek Fisher? Played most of his career with all the things mentioned AND Kobe. Gotta give the guy some credit for being a big part of WHY those teams were so good, fortunate situation or not.

I think putting Tim Duncan as fortunate is a stretch. I think the Spurs franchise were fortunate for getting him and the other 12 lottery at the time were unfortunate. The guy would've won a ring anywhere.

Same as Kobe, Duncan's gotta get some credit for those teams like you said. I don't know about "anywhere" but those Spurs teams win nothing without him.

[Jukeman]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

Jerome James is probably the most fortunate NBA player in history.

DJ Mbenga has a ring...

Heck Big Shot Rob have everyone beat on the OP's list...

[Cebby]

Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players

The teams AI had to face were much less formidable than what LeBron has had to.

Lebron made the Finals playing a 41 win Wizards team missing its two best players, a 41 win Nets team, and a 53 win Pistons team that while good was nothing outstanding.

That's probably the easiest Finals run ever.

TMac has played on teams barely good enough to make the playoffs.

TMac's team was apparently good enough to win a series in the playoffs and take the best team in the NBA to 7 games without him.

Nor do I consider making max money as fortunate when looking at a player's situation as far as team landscape goes. Obviously anyone making millions of dollars to play a game is fortunate, so this is all relative.

I didn't mean it from a getting paid standpoint.

If you're taking up 35% of your team's total salary, you can't complain that they aren't building a great team around you especially if your name isn't Kobe, Wade, Duncan, or Lebron.

People like Brand and McGrady are the reasons their teams were in those positions. When you vastly overpay a player you aren't able to get quality help.