MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

[ehh]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Magic had just as much fire and desire to win as Kobe. He just had a great personality and a big smile so he was more likable.

[Dice]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

I think people get confused when they use the term 'drive' and 'will to win'. What happens is that when someone goes through a rough situation in their career and they overcome it, then they become the king of 'Nobody has more drive and will to win than (INSERT PLAYER HERE)'

Michael Jordan and Kobe are perfect examples. Jordan had to overcome the Pistons in order for him to be King of the NBA. Kobe in the middle of his career had to overcome the loss of playing without Shaq to get where he got. BUT does that mean they have more drive than someone like Magic because he didn't have to go through adversity before winning his first championship? Not at all. Now Jordan and Kobe have that will to win. BUT is it more than Magic's? Magic had as much 'will to win' than anybody who played in this league. Same for a guy like Larry Bird. Yes, Magic and Bird were always blessed with talent around them during their playing years BUT that does not lessen their desire to win a championship. ALL THESE GUYS ARE ON EQUAL LEVEL. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe. No one has more desire to win than the others. And this also goes for those who didn't win a championship. Barkely, Malone, Miller. Those guys worked as hard as the Magics and Jordans. Unfortunately, them not winning championships was not their fault. Ultimately, a team and organization needs to take the blame for that.

[Kashanova]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Of course saying top 10 is accurate, but to be more accurate, Kobe is the best shooting guard ever not named Micheal Jordan.

Jordan knows that, has probably said it several times in the past, and has also probably privately discussed this with Kobe.

Outside of Shaq and Duncan, there really hasn't been a better player since MJ retired. Certainly not a better wing/guard.

there's no way kobe is 2nd there have def been better shooting guards in the history of the NBA.

[Kashanova]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

and overall since Jordan did say guard, I would rate 9 guards ahead of kobe at this moment, with that said he's def in the top 10 convo. Don't ever see it being top 5 though

[capp34]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

^^^only 9 coming from you that's a compliment.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Magic had just as much fire and desire to win as Kobe. He just had a great personality and a big smile so he was more likable.

While I probably take Magic over Kobe, this is not necessarily true. Magic was just as competitive during the game, but Kobe's ability to physically transform himself and push through, play with, and recover from injuries far surpasses Magic's. Kobe also puts much more work into studying film and learning the offensive/defensive tendencies of his opponents.

I think Magic is just as if not more so a talent, and I'm kind of on the fence as to who I'd take, but "drive" and "will" goes in Kobe's favor. Magic had a higher offensive bball IQ. He just saw 1s and 0s. Kobe actually has poor instincts as a team player, but has used his drive, will and intelligence to become an above average playmaker. When Kobe faces adversity, sometimes his playmaking will be the first thing to regress to those bad instincts.

Magic's playmaking is something that never went away. He also had the innate ability to get his team on the same page no matter what. Kobe has learned to extend his personal brand of cerebral focus, strategy and approach to practice, but early in his career, Kobe didn't know how to bridge that gap. Obviously, Kobe is the much more athletic player, and I think he's a stronger player as well. Importantly, he knows how to use that strength to create problems in mismatches. Funny, he played horribly last night, but was still able to back Raja Bell down to within 8 feet of the basket, starting at the 3pt line.

So I dunno. Two great players. Take either one of them and it's pretty easy to build a championship squad around them, but putting Magic's drive with Kobe's is inaccurate. It's the other things that made Magic special. Kobe's brain/drive/will are his best talents.

Just throwing it out there, sometimes in these discussions, there is no "better". Once you're dealing with greatness, it becomes situational and circumstantial. That's what separates Michael. He was clearly better than all of his peers. Magic was not, and Kobe was debatably the best for part of his career. MJ was hands down the best for the bulk of his career.

[Scott812313]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Kobe is easily the 2nd greatest guard ever. In fact, if the Lakers were to win the title this year against the super-team Heat, He will enter the discussion to supplant MJ as the best ever.

[RonnieG]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

I think that is accurate, especially since Kobe hasn't finished his career yet. It's probably not something that Jordan sits around thinking about. Like people on message boards do.

The media is really trying to make a big deal about nothing as usual.

Thats a good point. If this is something you dont think a lot about, a lot of people would be conservative and say top 10.

[RonnieG]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Kobe is easily the 2nd greatest guard ever. In fact, if the Lakers were to win the title this year against the super-team Heat, He will enter the discussion to supplant MJ as the best ever.

Id take Magic over Kobe. I realize theres a tendency to want to believe the here and now is the best ever, so these kinds of comments arent THAT surprising.

[st0rmb11]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

on the subject of the "will to win" you guys were talking about. I put Kobe, Magic, and Bird in a category of, they will themselves to reach new levels when they need to. but Jordan is the only guy I've ever seen that wills his entire team to winning. I have never seen Kobe WILL his team to a win. if anything, when he tries, it hurts his team.

I think that's what separates Jordan from the rest of the guards. (and the rest of league in general). He WILLED things to happen; things that people told him he couldn't do, he made it happen.

but this isn't a Jordan vs Kobe argument..RIGHT now, Kobe is without question a top 10 guard, and maybe a top 10 player, in some people's minds. when all is said and done, if he wins another title or two, he'll be top 10, now doubt.

[RonnieG]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

on the subject of the "will to win" you guys were talking about. I put Kobe, Magic, and Bird in a category of, they will themselves to reach new levels when they need to. but Jordan is the only guy I've ever seen that wills his entire team to winning. I have never seen Kobe WILL his team to a win. if anything, when he tries, it hurts his team.

I think that's what separates Jordan from the rest of the guards. (and the rest of league in general). He WILLED things to happen; things that people told him he couldn't do, he made it happen.

but this isn't a Jordan vs Kobe argument..RIGHT now, Kobe is without question a top 10 guard, and maybe a top 10 player, in some people's minds. when all is said and done, if he wins another title or two, he'll be top 10, now doubt.

Remember the game 7 vs the Suns in 2006 when the season hung in the balance and Kobe only took like 1 shot the entire 2nd half in a winnable game 7?

Thats a black mark on Kobe's record that will always be there...at least where Jordan comparisons are concerned. But, truly, people should just let Kobe be Kobe. He's a great player. Just let it be that.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Jordan
Magic
Oscar
Kobe

....pretty much.

[dossier]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Kobe is easily the 2nd greatest guard ever. In fact, if the Lakers were to win the title this year against the super-team Heat, He will enter the discussion to supplant MJ as the best ever.

no he wouldn't

Start the war

Michael had consistently better stats and had better number in bigger games. and IMO he worked with alot less talent than bryant until he got rodman.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Kobe is easily the 2nd greatest guard ever. In fact, if the Lakers were to win the title this year against the super-team Heat, He will enter the discussion to supplant MJ as the best ever.

I think the Big O and Jerry West are still ahead of him and the only way he beats those two is if he has a few more incredible years or wins 2 more titles.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Jerry West and Oscar? Meh. West I've seen a ton more than Oscar and he really doesn't scream that he's better than Bryant.

Oscar.... haven't seen much on him but both he and West played in the 60's. Equals grain of salt.

Kobe is easily the 2nd greatest guard ever. In fact, if the Lakers were to win the title this year against the super-team Heat, He will enter the discussion to supplant MJ as the best ever.

It was only a matter of time before we got one of these.

Now, I'll give Kobe the chance and let his overall game and production do the talking this season and in the future, but it's safe to say Kobe will never enter a discussion supplanting MJ even if Kobe wins 3 more rings.

That's outright laughable to think Kobe will enter the discussion if he wins a ring this year.

MJ trumps Kobe in every level of the game except 3's. But who the hell cares about 3's when MJ would score at will inside it. Defense, rebounding, assists/play making, you can go down every single NBA 2K attribute and MJ will have a better rating.

Pure skill, pure talent and how much each guy actually squeezed out his potential goes to MJ hands down, 5 hands down.