2010/11 PG Discussion

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

You bring up Rose's defense as a major flaw BUT you never mention Rondo's shooting deficiency

umm.....

Westbrook and Rondo both have skills that are universal and would be excellent on a championship squad. Rondo has already proven himself in that context to a degree, though he obviously has to fix the situation where people can play off of him and dare him to shoot. He also has to fix the FTs, but he's such a good defender, rebounder and playmaker that the positives are overwhelming in the grand scheme of things.

Regarding Westbrook's turnovers-I don't think they are that big of an issue. Young PGs turn over the ball most of the time. Given his learning curve, I'm willing to wait and see how the turnovers shake out. Since his abilities as a playmaker are growing at such a rate, in that situation mistakes are usually a part of progress.

Now in this discussion, I think his shooting efficiency and ability to finish around the basket in traffic are both relevant issues. Rondo and Rose are both much better around the rim in terms of finishing, but I think it becomes a wash when you look at what Westbrook is doing at the line this year.

Also, I never said Rose wasn't in the same class. I don't say elite, because Deron and CP3 are both clearly better than these three guys right now, so I don't think any of them are elite. I think they are the next tier below elite.

Lastly, it appears you missed the point on the Deron Williams issue. If I say that defense is very important to me in this discussion and I pick CP3 as the best overall PG, I don't have to answer for all those people that pick D-Will as number 1.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Rose an MVP candidate with CP3 thus far? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Too many PG's

[cubsball899]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

IMO, and it needs to be stated that this season is still VERY YOUNG, Rose is playing like a top 5 player in the league right now let alone a top 5 point guard...

*Steve Nash still wants to know what happened last night*

[Dice]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

umm.....


Regarding Westbrook's turnovers-I don't think they are that big of an issue. Young PGs turn over the ball most of the time. Given his learning curve, I'm willing to wait and see how the turnovers shake out. Since his abilities as a playmaker are growing at such a rate, in that situation mistakes are usually a part of progress.

Now in this discussion, I think his shooting efficiency and ability to finish around the basket in traffic are both relevant issues. Rondo and Rose are both much better around the rim in terms of finishing, but I think it becomes a wash when you look at what Westbrook is doing at the line this year.

Also, I never said Rose wasn't in the same class. I don't say elite, because Deron and CP3 are both clearly better than these three guys right now, so I don't think any of them are elite. I think they are the next tier below elite.

Lastly, it appears you missed the point on the Deron Williams issue. If I say that defense is very important to me in this discussion and I pick CP3 as the best overall PG, I don't have to answer for all those people that pick D-Will as number 1.

OK. Fair enough. I was on my iPhone when I read your post.

And I agree, right now Paul and Williams are the cream of the crop in PG's. BUT, out of the second tier PG's you mentioned(Rose, Rondo and Westbrook), I think that Rose has the best chance out of the three to crack the Williams-Paul status of PG's. The main reason is because Rose has more of an opportunity to prove himself than Rondo and Westbrook. Looking at Rose situation, he's the Bulls best player and number one scoring option. Rondo might be the Celtics best player but far from their number one scoring option. And you take a look at Westbrook's situation, he's playing with Kevin Durrant. So Westbrook is neither the best player nor the number one scoring option on his team. Paul and Williams are both on their respective teams. So Rose's situation should propel him into that class. NOW Rose still has to prove himself over the course of the season. BUT so far right now, he's doing an excellent job. Rose right now would be garnering MVP votes if they voted today.

So would it be fair to say that IF Rose became the MVP, that he would be in the same class as Paul and Williams?

[elprez98]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Rookie note: John Wall has the chance to be a better version of Derrick Rose. He's a superior defensive player, appears to be a more natural playmaker and at least an equal athlete. He's a better shooter at this stage of his career. If he keeps his head on straight, he definitely has the tools to be the man at the position.

Don't get me wrong, Wall looks good, but I'll have to disagree with the athleticism comment, Born. Wall has A++ speed, acceleration and quickness, ball handling, vision, and will likely be at least, as good as Rose. But he doesn't hold a candle to Rose's athleticism and finishing above the rim.

[JBH3]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

43 pt effort from Westbrook last night WITH Durant in the lineup. KD was as awful 9-26 and Westbrook picked up the scoring load to take another road win over the Pacers. Westbrook got to the line 18 times, converting 17 of those attempts. Not to mention 8 boards, 3 steals, a block, and no fouls in 42 minutes.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

43 pt effort from Westbrook last night WITH Durant in the lineup. KD was as awful 9-26 and Westbrook picked up the scoring load to take another road win over the Pacers. Westbrook got to the line 18 times, converting 17 of those attempts. Not to mention 8 boards, 3 steals, a block, and no fouls in 42 minutes.

Did you see the game? Westbrook was awesome, right up until the end. Then he had a missed FT, a couple of blown defensive assignments, and Durant took over to tie the game and finish Indy off in OT. And I'm a huge Westbrook fan, just sayin' let's keep the facts straight.

[JBH3]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Did you see the game? Westbrook was awesome, right up until the end. Then he had a missed FT, a couple of blown defensive assignments, and Durant took over to tie the game and finish Indy off in OT. And I'm a huge Westbrook fan, just sayin' let's keep the facts straight.

Yea...I know, but without Westbrook's effort... there would've been no opportunity for that O/T win. Citing the ESPN headline: "Westbrook Carries Thunder Past Pacers in O/T".

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Yea...I know, but without Westbrook's effort... there would've been no opportunity for that O/T win. Citing the ESPN headline: "Westbrook Carries Thunder Past Pacers in O/T".

Yeah but that's a terrible headline because it is bad reporting. Westbrook did very little after his missed free throw save for allow his man to score. That's not to criticize his game. He had a great game for what he did, which was carry the thunder for 90% of regulation. Then he gave the ball to his go to scorer who had found his rhythm at the end of the game. That's relevant to this discussion because that is a luxury that Rose doesn't have.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Westbrook and Rose are just looking absurd through the first month.

I couldn't tell you which guy I'd rather have or who the better point guard is.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Agreed completely. Rose and Westbrook have been ridonk. On another note, I can't wait to see how Rondo develops as Allen, Pierce, and Garnett get older/retire. Are we going to see him develop his scoring abilities more or do you think they'll find someone else via draft or free agency to take over as the scorer? I'm thinking once those three are gone, we'll see how good Rondo can really be.

[PrettyT11]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Since this was the thread started for PG's this year I will put it here instead of a new one or flooding another thread about something else as the main topic. Since we are pretty much right at the All Star break does the play of the PG's this year change your rankings of them?? Anybody move up or down a level or tier?? Right now my rankings of them has changed some. With CP3 being back heathly and seeing what he has done he is back as the clear cut number one guy. His efficiency is out of this world and should get some love in the MVP talks. I have moved Rose up into that top 3 and into elite class. How he has carried the Bulls and improvement to all parts of his game have pushed him into that group. Not to mention he is an MVP favorite at the moment. Right now I got it like this

1) CP3
2a and 2b) Deron and Rose

The next guy in line could be anyone of these three guys and I would say round out the top 5 Rondo, Westbrook, and Nash

You have the next set of guys who are playing good ball but those are the top 5 to me.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Since this was the thread started for PG's this year I will put it here instead of a new one or flooding another thread about something else as the main topic. Since we are pretty much right at the All Star break does the play of the PG's this year change your rankings of them?? Anybody move up or down a level or tier?? Right now my rankings of them has changed some. With CP3 being back heathly and seeing what he has done he is back as the clear cut number one guy. His efficiency is out of this world and should get some love in the MVP talks. I have moved Rose up into that top 3 and into elite class. How he has carried the Bulls and improvement to all parts of his game have pushed him into that group. Not to mention he is an MVP favorite at the moment. Right now I got it like this

1) CP3
2a and 2b) Deron and Rose

The next guy in line could be anyone of these three guys and I would say round out the top 5 Rondo, Westbrook, and Nash

You have the next set of guys who are playing good ball but those are the top 5 to me.

I'd say:
Tier 1: CP3, DWill, Rose
Tier 2: Rondo, Westbrook, Nash
Tier 3: Probably your Monta Ellis, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, guys like that

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

I agree with you guys on the tiers

[Jukeman]

Re: 2010/11 PG Discussion

Damn when did Born get ban?

I be M.I.A. . .