11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Trolling? Not sure why you don't just reply to posts instead of just resorting to that.

I think it's funny you knew I was being sarcastic, to be honest. It was just a little experiment.

No need to respond to the post, because truth is, we won't know what will happen until the season plays out and we'll only know if/when they play each other in the playoffs.

[Dewie12]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Hedo is not a better defender than Amare.

How do you figure that one? Warrick, I guess if you want to say he's a better defender, I won't argue that, but Hedo?

As far as the formula goes, it's nowhere near the same as last year. Hedo is nowhere near the same style Amare is. Maybe by formula you mean outscore teams, which would be a true statement. Suns of recent history have always been about outscoring their opponent. The way they go about it is a lot different than it was last year, and not as dependable/consistent.

They do have deep talent no doubt about it, that's why I still said they would be in the playoff picture. Just once they get there, if their team stays as is, they have no shot in hell to beat Los Angeles. And you know at some point they're gonna end up playing one another.

Team defender....much different. Amare struggles with that. Watch any tape of the Knicks this year or the Suns since he has been in the league.

Hedo at least is in the right spot on the floor. Amare would gamble, not rotate, not protect the rim.....he is an awful team defender. Hedo is just a matchup nightmare because he has no lateral quickness and is weak. But he at least doesn't try to front the post and leave easy layups every time down the court.

L.A. has the best team in the league. So what. This is about the Suns. I know you are a Laker's fan but there are 29 other teams in the NBA that can't just buy championships (buying the best FA and coach ) The Suns made it to the conference finals last year. This team is in position to do that again....

[Dewie12]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Pistons have the best bench in the league and the worst starting 5

How Joe Dumars still has a job shows you how good of a guy he must be.

The last 6 years in Detroit is the worst GM debacle I have ever seen....awful.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

How is it funny? A majority of your posts in this forum have been made in the same manner.

I would genuinely like to debate the Suns and the western conference with someone who really doesn't agree with me.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Good way to start this West Coast Road Trip and get our first W on the road against a WC Team in almost 2 yearsby taking care of the Clippers. Eric Gordon pretty much kept them in the game as Big Blake wasn't really a factor tonight.

Also got good games from Brook, Morrow and Jordan, who had his first career double double tonight.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

How is it funny? A majority of your posts in this forum have been made in the same manner.

I would genuinely like to debate the Suns and the western conference with someone who really doesn't agree with me.

It's funny because Laker fans constantly present him as some sort of factor, as if he makes a difference, as if he's part of the long-term plan.

You want my honest opinion? I want Bynum back. He'll throw off chemistry, and relegate the Phoenix-killer Odom to the bench. It'll suck though, because he'll get hurt again in 3 games.

Bottom line is, Laker fans should never rely on him again, but I keep hearing it. I just want to stop hearing it. And yes, I know you didnt bring it up on this instance, it was just a joke stemming from where I hear it elsewhere.

The Lakers will continue to beat the Suns overall so long as guys like Artest and Fisher knock down their long range shots when they're left open.

I would also like to genuinely debate the game with people who aren't so arrogant about their own team's abilities and dismissive of others. Phoenix is arguably the most resilient team in the league, and has been for years. All the turmoil and all the bull**** and we're still doing what we're doing. That ALONE is reason for respect.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Team defender....much different. Amare struggles with that. Watch any tape of the Knicks this year or the Suns since he has been in the league.

Hedo at least is in the right spot on the floor. Amare would gamble, not rotate, not protect the rim.....he is an awful team defender. Hedo is just a matchup nightmare because he has no lateral quickness and is weak. But he at least doesn't try to front the post and leave easy layups every time down the court.

L.A. has the best team in the league. So what. This is about the Suns. I know you are a Laker's fan but there are 29 other teams in the NBA that can't just buy championships (buying the best FA and coach ) The Suns made it to the conference finals last year. This team is in position to do that again....

Actually no, this isn't a thread just about the Suns. Plus the majority of my post you responded to was focused on PHX.

As far as team defense goes, well thus far Turk hasn't shown me ish defensively. Certainly doesn't show up in the stats, where they are rated in the bottom 5 for FG % and points allowed.

Sure Hedo can be in the right place, but like you said he has little ability to do much more.

As far as being in a position to get back to the conference finals, I am not even arguing they can't do that. That's where LA comes into the conversation... and that's why I brought them up at the end of my last post.

[l3ulvl]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

How Joe Dumars still has a job shows you how good of a guy he must be.

The last 6 years in Detroit is the worst GM debacle I have ever seen....awful.

Nah, he's the only GM to ever orchestrate a non-superstar championship roster. Well maybe he isn't, idunno. But he had a plan, and turned it into greatness, now he has a new plan that isn't finished. I'll give him time.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Turkoglu doesn't need to be a world-beater on defense. I don't expect him to be some ridiculous on-ball defender. That said, he tossed Billups' **** tonight to effectively seal the game. I'll take that.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

It's funny because Laker fans constantly present him as some sort of factor, as if he makes a difference, as if he's part of the long-term plan.

You want my honest opinion? I want Bynum back. He'll throw off chemistry, and relegate the Phoenix-killer Odom to the bench. It'll suck though, because he'll get hurt again in 3 games.

Bottom line is, Laker fans should never rely on him again, but I keep hearing it. I just want to stop hearing it.

The Lakers will continue to beat the Suns overall so long as guys like Artest and Fisher knock down their long range shots when they're left open.

As far as Andrew goes, I don't depend on him at all. I think by now most LA fans don't look at him like a big part of the future.. LA fans are "dumb" but most of them know Andrew and his knees are no sure thing.

Overall I believe the Lakers will keep beating PHX in the playoffs until PHX gets a better wing defender/playmaker starter than Richardson and a rebounding/scoring PF.. which would slide Turk to the 3. I think Richardson is a turn-style defensively and he really can't push Kobe on the defensive end to tire Kobe out.

Orlando was much closer to defeating Los Angeles in that series than most people give them credit for.. and that was with Turk playing the 3. As it stands now, PHX has nobody they can throw the ball into in the post nor a rebounding partner for Lopez.

Nash/Wing defender/playmaker/Turk/Rebounder/scorer/Robin

And their deep bench.

[Dewie12]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

Actually no, this isn't a thread just about the Suns. Plus the majority of my post you responded to was focused on PHX.

As far as team defense goes, well thus far Turk hasn't shown me ish defensively. Certainly doesn't show up in the stats, where they are rated in the bottom 5 for FG % and points allowed.

Sure Hedo can be in the right place, but like you said he has little ability to do much more.

As far as being in a position to get back to the conference finals, I am not even arguing they can't do that. That's where LA comes into the conversation... and that's why I brought them up at the end of my last post.

Hedo plays half the minutes Amare does....the Suns with Hedo, Childress, Dudley and Warrick are better defensively than with Amare. That is the point I was trying to make. Hedo playing 10-15 minutes at Amare's position is even defensively and offensively he adds an element of running a 4/5 pick n roll with another big. Something that Amare couldn't do.

L.A. comes into the conversation because you are a Lakers homer. We get that.

You made two points about the Suns that I disagree with.
1) The Suns have a roster that is much better at defensive matchups without Amare.

2) The Suns are in the paint all the time offensively. Nash, Dragic live in there. They need to score more rather than looking to dish for the long threes. They are built to own the paint if those players take the shots they should. They are set up the same way the Spurs own the paint, not because of Tim Duncan but because Tony Parker and Manu score at the rim all the time.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

As far as Andrew goes, I don't depend on him at all. I think by now most LA fans don't look at him like a big part of the future.. LA fans are "dumb" but most of them know Andrew and his knees are no sure thing.

Overall I believe the Lakers will keep beating PHX in the playoffs until PHX gets a better wing defender/playmaker starter than Richardson and a rebounding/scoring PF.. which would slide Turk to the 3. I think Richardson is a turn-style defensively and he really can't push Kobe on the defensive end to tire Kobe out.

Orlando was much closer to defeating Los Angeles in that series than most people give them credit for.. and that was with Turk playing the 3. As it stands now, PHX has nobody they can throw the ball into in the post nor a rebounding partner for Lopez.

Well then you should share your knowledge with people I know then. I've heard it mentioned on here and other sites as well.

J-Rich isn't depended on to guard Kobe. Hill/Dudley/Childress are. Even then, you let Kobe get his. I know you "challenge" me on this, but that really is the way. If Kobe's on fire like he was in Game 6 last year, there's nothing you can do. You want to stop worthless pests like Fisher and Vujacic from hitting threes instead.

Hedo plays half the minutes Amare does....the Suns with Hedo, Childress, Dudley and Warrick are better defensively than with Amare. That is the point I was trying to make. Hedo playing 10-15 minutes at Amare's position is even defensively and offensively he adds an element of running a 4/5 pick n roll with another big. Something that Amare couldn't do.

L.A. comes into the conversation because you are a Lakers homer. We get that.

You made two points about the Suns that I disagree with.
1) The Suns have a roster that is much better at defensive matchups without Amare.

2) The Suns are in the paint all the time offensively. Nash, Dragic live in there. They need to score more rather than looking to dish for the long threes. They are built to own the paint if those players take the shots they should. They are set up the same way the Spurs own the paint, not because of Tim Duncan but because Tony Parker and Manu score at the rim all the time.

Yes. We're better defensively not in the paint, but because Childress and a leaner Dudley (from last year he's lost about 15lb) are awesome perimeter defenders, who know exactly what to do, and are different looks. We can also close out much quicker if we're playing zone.

We score in the paint ALL THE TIME. I want statistics on this, can't find them. When its layups from the point guards, dumpoffs to Warrick and Lopez, drives by J-Rich, Turk, and Childres......it's varied. It's just not a traditional low-post offense, but hell, when have the Suns ever been traditional?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

A Laker homer? Glad we've reached the name-calling stage. If all fails resort to just calling someone a homer, without even pointing out how he got to that conclusion.

Nash and Dragic live in the paint? So that's your source of inside scoring? Like I said, they have nobody to throw the ball into, something all championship teams need once the playoffs come around.

The Suns have a better team defensively? So far that is definitely a false statement. As the season progresses we'll see how that statement turns out.

As far as J-Rich/Hill/Childress/Dudley, that still won't cut it. Once the playoffs come it's going to be interesting to see how minutes are divided.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

It's an exhausting conversation.

Wake me up in April, I guess.

[Dewie12]

Re: 11/15-11/21 Game Discussion Thread

A Laker homer? Glad we've reached the name-calling stage. If all fails resort to just calling someone a homer, without even pointing out how he got to that conclusion.

Nash and Dragic live in the paint? So that's your source of inside scoring? Like I said, they have nobody to throw the ball into, something all championship teams need once the playoffs come around.

The Suns have a better team defensively? So far that is definitely a false statement. As the season progresses we'll see how that statement turns out.

You are a Lakers fan right? You talk Lakers more than anything else....I called you what you are. No harm in that. There are Raptor homers on here and Suns homers....fans are that. No offense intended. I just thought you brought up that this Suns team will inevitably get beat by the Lakers because you are a Lakers fan....maybe I am wrong.....perhaps you would have mentioned the Jazz or Hornets or even the Spurs.....

All championship teams dump it into the post???? The Celtics...the Pistons....the Bulls.....not sure where you are going with that.

The Suns are clearly more active defensively. Their style is never going to show up in the stats. For the Suns defense you are going to have to look at possessions per game, Ft's, contested shots, 3PT %.....those are what fastbreak teams care about defensively.