J. Kidd or S. Nash?

[Drewski]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I don't even like the "defense wins championships" line in this one, bc Kidd didn't win a championship until this year, waaaaay past his prime. At the height of his game he won as many rings as Nash. Kidd does own rebounding hands down.

Right, neither guy "carried" his team to a championship (the lofty expectations almost every "superstar" has to achieve), so that's a fair point. It's really difficult to judge because of circumstance, stylistically they play different brands of basketball, have played with different players coaches and systems.... just so many variables. The only real constant is they were(are) both playing in the league at the same time. Even if you try to put them on a team and debate who would do better, they both bring such different things to the table it's hard to decipher. Kidd fits for A reason, Nash for B reason, but the team would be better with X player because of X rationale. Just really hard to pick between them.

[wwharton]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

Right, neither guy "carried" his team to a championship (the lofty expectations almost every "superstar" has to achieve), so that's a fair point. It's really difficult to judge because of circumstance, stylistically they play different brands of basketball, have played with different players coaches and systems.... just so many variables. The only real constant is they were(are) both playing in the league at the same time. Even if you try to put them on a team and debate who would do better, they both bring such different things to the table it's hard to decipher. Kidd fits for A reason, Nash for B reason, but the team would be better with X player because of X rationale. Just really hard to pick between them.

Exactly, and I still can't make a choice but if (big IF) most everything else cancels out, Kidd definitely takes rebounds so that would give him an edge. It's also tough bc Kidd's been around in the spotlight a little longer. I don't have faith in the Suns making moves that would bring Nash a ring, but I'd rather look at both when they're both done, or we can compare their careers straight up.

[Drewski]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

Exactly, and I still can't make a choice but if (big IF) most everything else cancels out, Kidd definitely takes rebounds so that would give him an edge. It's also tough bc Kidd's been around in the spotlight a little longer. I don't have faith in the Suns making moves that would bring Nash a ring, but I'd rather look at both when they're both done, or we can compare their careers straight up.

It will be hard to compare them straight up - mainly because even if we get down to specifics and stats, it's extremely hard to quantify defensive presence. Advanced statistics can do alot, but telling a defensive story isn't one of them.

Rebounds, definitely Kidd, so I guess that's one way you can start pulling Kidd away from Nash. Suns definitely wont make the moves to bring Nash a ring (there at least, wondering if they'll set him free this off-season, and if a contender can dish out enough for the Suns to budge), but individually that's no fault of his own.

[Cutthroat]

Kidd>>Nash. Not even close.

[Schisms]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I wish Nash coulda still been on the Mavs.......

[TheMatrix31]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

All this talk about PG defense. Overrated. The Lakers won what, 5 championships with Derek Fisher playing the PG position? Including the last two and 3 Finals appearances overall? Is Tony Parker a defensive stalwart? Not really, but he's quick and can jump the lanes every so often.

Nash isn't a great individual defender, okay fine, but he gets a couple charges and steals a game. For me, that's enough.

And it's not just "Kidd's D advantage is = Nash's shooting advantage". Nash could be argued to be the best shooter in NBA HISTORY, Kidd was garbage for a long while and only recently (and inexplicably, I guess) started to make his three pointers.

The whole D-from-a-PG thing is highly overrated. Other swingmen typically guard the other team's best player. Usually a PG guards the least deadly option on offense. At least that's what I've noticed.

Nash's character and chemistry is also much, much higher than Kidd's. Kidd butted heads with Scott, beat his wife, etc while Nash has been ********* his entire career. That's gotta count for something too, I think.

I know it seems like I'm ****ting on Kidd, but in reality he's one of my favorite Suns ever. I'd just rather have Nash. And, if you want to get down to it, I'd PROBABLY take a prime, healthy KJ over both.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

This is a tough one for me. I really like Kidd, but I'd go Nash on this one.

[Drewski]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

All this talk about PG defense. Overrated. The Lakers won what, 5 championships with Derek Fisher playing the PG position? Including the last two and 3 Finals appearances overall? Is Tony Parker a defensive stalwart? Not really, but he's quick and can jump the lanes every so often.

Nash isn't a great individual defender, okay fine, but he gets a couple charges and steals a game. For me, that's enough.

And it's not just "Kidd's D advantage is = Nash's shooting advantage". Nash could be argued to be the best shooter in NBA HISTORY, Kidd was garbage for a long while and only recently (and inexplicably, I guess) started to make his three pointers.

The whole D-from-a-PG thing is highly overrated. Other swingmen typically guard the other team's best player. Usually a PG guards the least deadly option on offense. At least that's what I've noticed.

Nash's character and chemistry is also much, much higher than Kidd's. Kidd butted heads with Scott, beat his wife, etc while Nash has been ********* his entire career. That's gotta count for something too, I think.

I know it seems like I'm ****ting on Kidd, but in reality he's one of my favorite Suns ever. I'd just rather have Nash. And, if you want to get down to it, I'd PROBABLY take a prime, healthy KJ over both.

Like the post, good argument for Nash here to be had.

[AlexBrady]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

Both players are phenomenal and are truly Hall of Famers. Here is how I see it.

Kidd: Is very strong which allows him to post up and hold his ground in the rebounding game. Has the slightest of edges in the passing department over Nash. Was a first rate defender (especially before his surgery) and could stay with speedy players in his younger days.
His main flaw was always his wristy shooting mechanics which made him an erratic shooter. Usually, Kidd would miss alot of jumpers early in the game and his team would fall behind. However, his courage and competitive spirit always made him a terrific shooter when the game was on the line.

Nash: Is way better at creating his own shot opportunities than Kidd is. Better free throw, pull up, and three point shooter. Better cross-over dribbles and a quicker release on his shot. Nash also does a better job taking care of the ball and is quicker than Kidd.
Nash is a defensive liability and isn't really a factor on the boards. Of course, Nash always plays hard and is deadly whenever a game is on the line.

Who would I take? Kidd on a slow grinding offense. While Nash would be my choice on an uptempo squad.

[capp34]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I had Kidd before the title so I'm going to roll with him. Even though in the past I thought Nash was overrated I have came to my senses and realized he is one of the best to play the position.

[Weeks]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I think both are great, but if I had to pick one it'd probably be Nash

[Scott812313]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

Both players are phenomenal and are truly Hall of Famers. Here is how I see it.

Kidd: Is very strong which allows him to post up and hold his ground in the rebounding game. Has the slightest of edges in the passing department over Nash. Was a first rate defender (especially before his surgery) and could stay with speedy players in his younger days.
His main flaw was always his wristy shooting mechanics which made him an erratic shooter. Usually, Kidd would miss alot of jumpers early in the game and his team would fall behind. However, his courage and competitive spirit always made him a terrific shooter when the game was on the line.

Nash: Is way better at creating his own shot opportunities than Kidd is. Better free throw, pull up, and three point shooter. Better cross-over dribbles and a quicker release on his shot. Nash also does a better job taking care of the ball and is quicker than Kidd.
Nash is a defensive liability and isn't really a factor on the boards. Of course, Nash always plays hard and is deadly whenever a game is on the line.

Who would I take? Kidd on a slow grinding offense. While Nash would be my choice on an uptempo squad.

Kidd was amazing on those old fast break Sun's teams and even the Nets (who he lead to back to back finals) were an uptempo team. I'd go with Kidd, by a slight margin.

[luv_mist]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I didn't read the whole page. I'm going to jot down my thoughts. I think Jason Kidd is a better player than Nash. I'd take him over Nash anyday. Reason being that Jason Kidd has had a more consistent career with lesser players around him. He has gotten to the Finals 3 times off the top of my head. Look at that New Jersey team and tell me 3 other players that Kidd has on his squad. Then look at Nash and name off the top three players he had on his squad whenever he went to the playoffs.

Honestly, Jason Kidd seems more efficient to me because he plays offense well, and can really contain some of the better offensive guards in the league. I think he had a bad rap in his career due to his loony wife, but that's another thread that can be bumped later on. I personally think Nash's MVPs weren't exactly warranted, especially when Shaq was doing so much more that year they didn't give it to him.

[DaImmaculateONe]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

Yeah i think i would have to agree with the later posts of taking Kidd over Nash. It's no contest that Nash is a better shooter but what does that really mean when other teams are game planning how they can isolate against him so their guys can score 25+ points. Even if Kidd can barely score double digits he only giving up 12 or 14pts on the other end or making guys take a ton of shots to get their average while getting steals and rebounds.

When i think of J. Kidd i see the ultimate facilitator. Knowing where everyone should be, getting the ball in the rights spots, having the ball flow in the right direction, being vocal explaining stuff to his teammates without dissing them (cough kobe). That no knock to Nash which i think he's and elite playmaker i give him the notch above Kidd because he can put the ball in the hole. But Kidd's will to want the ball for his team by playing great D, getting steals and rebounding is far superior to Nash.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: J. Kidd or S. Nash?

I personally think Nash's MVPs weren't exactly warranted, especially when Shaq was doing so much more that year they didn't give it to him.

Not this stuff again.

Nash's first MVP - Came to Phoenix, facilitated a 32 win turnaround, a resurgence of a slacking franchise, and rejuvenated the league. Not to mention his phenomenal statistics. I mean, teams were getting blown out every freakin' night against Phoenix that year.

Nash's second MVP - Led a team with 9 new players to another ridiculously high record, his main pick n' roll partner (a guy named Amare Stoudemire) out all year, and oh...he had better stats than the first MVP year.

And Dirk/Dallas winning like 5-6 more games in 2007 prevented Nash from getting what could have just as easily been his third MVP, considering this was his best year statistically.

I'm really getting sick of explaining it.