Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Its Durant and its not even close. I don't even know how to articulate why.

[eDotd]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Melo putting in that work (1:50)

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[BlueNGold]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

IMO Melo is better and more complete offensively. He can score pretty much each and every way possible. Hell, he might even be the best scorer in the league.

But.....if I'm a GM and I have to choose between the two, I'm taking Durant 9/10 times because he gets "it" and won't cause drama. Also, I don't think we're far off from seeing Durant becoming an elite defender. I think he knows he needs to take advantage of his size and length on that end.

[Bumi]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Durant is a prodigy. Melo is an All-Star. Durant in a land slide, and I don't find that it's too particularly close. In fact, the question shouldn't be "Whose the better player between Durant and Melo", but rather, "is there any facet of the game in which Melo doesn't pale in comparison?" The latter, I think, is far more appropriate given their relative impact levels.

Whatever Melo is good at(Sans post game), Durant is better. Durant scores out unilaterally better in box score metrics (by a good margin), Synergy (by a good margin), and +/- (by an enormous margin: Durant's 2 year APM: +11.74 (good for second in the league), Carmelo's is +4.17, good for 30th).

And even if we're glancing at their best seasons....

Durant: Age 21 - 30/8/3/48% FG/.60 TS%

Melo hasn't, nor will he ever post a line like this. Right now, Durant is what everyone expected Melo to be coming out of Syracuse. He's Melo's superior at what Melo does best, and accomplishes this while being significantly more efficient.

Melo's best line to date?

Anthony: Age 25 - 28/7/3/46% FG/.55 TS%

Also, wrap your head around this. Durant's scoring efficiency in his second season was superior to anything Melo has ever posted. In his 4th season, and second playoff run, Durant accomplished what it took Melo 6 seasons to do. And posted better numbers while doing it. The only teams Durant has ever lost to in the playoffs, went on to be champions. Melo has made it out of the first round the same amount of times Durant has, but has been apart of eight playoff runs to Durant's two. Melo has eclipsed 2,000 points once in his 8 year career, Durant has eclipsed that mark twice in half the time. This post season alone, Durant posted more 40 point games than Melo has in his post season career. I'm sorry, the cold and simple truth is that; Durant, at 21 was better than Melo ever was. The difference will only grow larger from here.

I was pretty dissapointed by Durant this post season, on and off court.....but hes got time to grow. RIGHT NOW though? Im taling Melo.

Disappointing?

Durant @ 22: 29/8/3/.58 TS%

To put this in perspective

LeBron @ 22: 25/8/8/.51 TS%
Bryant @ 22: 29/7/6/.55 TS%
Duncan @ 22: 23/11/3/.57 TS%
O'Neal @ 22: 26/12/3/.59 TS%

What were your expectations? Keeping in mind this was his second playoff run, he lead his team to the western conference finals, and OKC is two years removed from 3 straight lottery seasons.

I think they're very similar, offensively and defensively. Durant doesn't try to get to the rack as much as Melo does and settles for the J too much. Durant finishes better than Melo at the rim, and I'm guessing it's because he takes smarter shots there instead of forcing. Both can hit from anywhere on the court and if they get going, they get going. Neither are great defenders but are better than the average. Neither are going to lead the league in boards or assists but both can get it done if they need to.

They aren't similar at all offensively. Melo is a ball stopping isolation scorer. As prolific a scorer he is, him scoring typically results in disruption of the offense. Durant, on the other hand, scores within the flow of the offense. I think there's value, though limited, to being about to play off the ball and not dominate possessions in order to be involved offensively. Carmelo's isolation driven offense has its place late in games in certain situations, but for the bulk of a game I'd rather have a guy who can score without pounding the ball excessively. When Carmelo's not involved in the play directly, he's usually not a factor offensively. Durant is moving around as a decoy, running off pin down screens, etc. Not to mention, Durant scores more, more efficiently.

Defensively, Durant is significantly better. Durant has been solid to good defensively for most of 10-11, and was even better last season. He blocks more shots and fouls less. He stays with his man better and is more effective fighting through screens. Moreover, Durant is rated better at defending isolation situations, pick and rolls, spot ups, post ups, etc. Typically, I don't put ton of value in Synergy #'s, but the fact that they are all in Durant's favor, and that Durant in general is a better team defender and more interested in playing defense, I don't feel as if a credible argument can be made in Melo's favor. Even if the basis of the argument is whether or not they're at least comparable defensively.

I feel that Melo is a better finisher around the rim as well. That's one knock I have with KD. I feel like he needs to work on finishing at the rim. When there is contact or a crowd inside, he is not strong enough or creative enough at the rim to make those tough finishes.

On top of that, Melo is one of the most clutch players in the league. Durant has shown that he disappears at times where he should be taking over. He needs to learn to do a MUCH better job to get in position to receive a pass so he can make something happen on offense. I don't think I can remember a player of Durant's caliber, struggle as much as he does to get free to get the ball.

FG% at Rim

Durant:
08-09: 68%
09-10: 70%
10-11: 77.2%

Melo:
08-09: 60%
09-10: 57%
10-11 Den: 57%
10-11 NYC: 66%

And to further dispel the notion that Durant is lackluster around the rim, I offer this statistic.

2010-2011 NBA Dunk Leaders

<table class="data" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="row1" align="right"><td align="center">1</td><td align="left">Dwight Howard</td><td align="center">C</td><td align="center">ORL</td><td align="center">227</td></tr><tr class="row2" align="right"><td align="center">2</td><td align="left">Blake Griffin</td><td align="center">PF</td><td align="center">LAC</td><td align="center">214</td></tr><tr class="row1" align="right"><td align="center">3</td><td align="left">DeAndre Jordan</td><td align="center">C</td><td align="center">LAC</td><td align="center">158</td></tr><tr class="row2" align="right"><td align="center">4</td><td align="left">JaVale McGee</td><td align="center">C</td><td align="center">WAS</td><td align="center">155</td></tr><tr class="row1" align="right"><td align="center">5</td><td align="left">LaMarcus Aldridge</td><td align="center">PF</td><td align="center">POR</td><td align="center">148</td></tr><tr class="row2" align="right"><td align="center">6</td><td align="left">Tyson Chandler</td><td align="center">C</td><td align="center">DAL</td><td align="center">129</td></tr><tr class="row1" align="right"><td align="center">7</td><td align="left">Kevin Durant</td><td align="center">SF</td><td align="center">OKC</td><td align="center">125</td></tr><tr class="row2" align="right"><td align="center">8</td><td align="left">Amar'e Stoudemire</td><td align="center">PF</td><td align="center">NY</td><td align="center">119</td></tr><tr class="row1" align="right"><td align="center">9</td><td align="left">Nene</td><td align="center">C</td><td align="center">DEN</td><td align="center">112</td></tr><tr class="row2" align="right"><td align="center">10</td><td align="left">Serge Ibaka</td><td align="center">PF</td><td align="center">OKC</td><td align="center">102</td></tr></tbody></table>

Notable players Durant finished ahead of: LeBron James, Josh Smith, and Hakim Warrick.

---------------------------

Clutch statistics?

Kevin Durant

<table bgcolor="cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="500"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="33cc33"><td><center>Min</center></td> <td><center>Net Pts</center></td> <td><center>Off</center></td> <td><center>Def</center></td> <td><center>Net48</center></td> <td><center>W</center></td> <td><center>L</center></td> <td><center>Win%</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="ffffff"> <td align="center"> 85%</td> <td align="center">+86</td> <td align="center"> 111.5</td> <td align="center"> 92.0</td> <td align="center"> 19.6</td> <td align="center"> 29 </td> <td align="center"> 14 </td> <td><center> 67.4%</center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Scoring
<table bgcolor="cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="460"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="e5e5e5"> <td bgcolor="33cc33" width="60"><center>By</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FG.</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FGA</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FG%</center></td> <td width="50"><center>eFG%</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Ast'd</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Blk'd</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FTM</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Pts</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="ffffff"> <td><center>48 Min</center></td> <td align="right">12.3 </td> <td align="right">30.3 </td> <td align="right">.406 </td> <td align="right">.440 </td> <td align="right"> 57% </td> <td align="right"> 2% </td> <td align="right">17.5 </td> <td align="right">44.2 </td></tr></tbody> </table>
Carmelo Anthony

<table bgcolor="cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="500"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="33cc33"><td><center>Min</center></td> <td><center>Net Pts</center></td> <td><center>Off</center></td> <td><center>Def</center></td> <td><center>Net48</center></td> <td><center>W</center></td> <td><center>L</center></td> <td><center>Win%</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="ffffff"> <td align="center"> 38%</td> <td align="center">-10</td> <td align="center"> 107.8</td> <td align="center"> 115.4</td> <td align="center"> -7.6</td> <td align="center"> 5 </td> <td align="center"> 11 </td> <td><center> 31.3%</center></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Scoring
<table bgcolor="cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="460"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="e5e5e5"> <td bgcolor="33cc33" width="60"><center>By</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FG.</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FGA</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FG%</center></td> <td width="50"><center>eFG%</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Ast'd</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Blk'd</center></td> <td width="50"><center>FTM</center></td> <td width="50"><center>Pts</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="ffffff"> <td><center>48 Min</center></td> <td align="right">11.4 </td> <td align="right">27.3 </td> <td align="right">.417 </td> <td align="right">.444 </td> <td align="right"> 40% </td> <td align="right"> 8% </td> <td align="right"> 9.9 </td> <td align="right">34.2 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>



While Melo was with Denver?

Durant: 46.3ppg on 43/31/84, 2.4 to's

Carmelo: 41.4ppg on 46/20/83, 5.6 to's

If we are looking at just stats or skills, I think it's a close call. They are both great scorers with great jumpers. Melo is a little better in the post/shooting and Durant is a little better at driving.

Durant Shooting Percentages

3-9 feet: 43%
10-15 feet: 47%
16-23 feet: 40%
3 Point: 35%/53% eFG

Melo

3-9 feet: 32.3% Den/26.1% NYC
10-15 feet: 38% Den/37% NYC
16-23 feet: 43% Den/40% NYC
3 point: 33% Den/42% NYC // 50% eFG Den/ 63% NYC


-------------------------

I honestly think most of you are either short changing Durant, or are unaware of how good he actually is. I personally find the following to be more worthy of discussion...

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[Court_vision]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I am a Melo fan.........but I'd take Durant over him every.day.of.the.week.

[ernie69]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Its a close one but I'll take Melo. He just has so many ways to score.

[iCaMeL]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I would never want Melo on my team. Its like having only four people on defense.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I also think Durants IQ Is a little overblown....I think anytime a players relatively quiet/ humble they automatically get grouped into the high IQ category....I personally think KD has alot of growing to do....

Not to say Melos is through the roof or anything...lol

And dont get me wrong, KD is already a great player and will only get better....but to answer Bumis question: I knew his stat sheet would be fine, thats not what I was looking for. I expected to see more toughness from Durant...whether it was his defeated look at times, or him getting bullied off his spot by defenders. I think its something he should develop, but for right now id take Melos bully ball down the stretch every time...

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Melo putting in that work (1:50)

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/74-p8GMWoKM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wow...I'm very impressed with LeBron and his work ethic. Very impressive to see the youngest guy lead a workout for All-Stars and a world champ.

I'm hoping Amare convinces Melo to work out with him this summer (word is Amare has a very stringent off-season workout plan).

Every pic I've seen of Melo since the season's been over has been him in a club, on a yacht or just looking flabby and sick.

That's word to Paul Pierce.

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I love that Durant is modest, a team player, humble, all that great stuff....but right now im taking Melo...

I think Melos killer instinct and toughness is what sets the two apart...

while Melos D is definitely questionable, IMO its not for lack of trying....dude is just not a good defensive player..

I was pretty dissapointed by Durant this post season, on and off court.....but hes got time to grow. RIGHT NOW though? Im taling Melo.

Yea I'm pretty much on the same page. Even though Durant is better defensive. He doesn't have Melo offensive game. I feel as thought Durant can turn into a jumpshooter too easily at times.

[Dice]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I'm shocked at all this Melo love, even if it is well deserved.

Same here. BUT if you asked some Bulls fans back in October, Melo was just another player who can score.

Anyway, right now I'd take Melo for the simple fact is that he can score in the post better than KD. When your a scoring threat in the post game(ARE YOU LISTENING LEBRON?) your offense has a lot of options to go to.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

I think it's been covered pretty well in this thread, but like I mentioned countless times in the playoffs threads, Durant really struggled getting open at least in the Dallas series. He came off of screens poorly, sometimes ignoring them completely, and instead fading into the corner and basically leaving the offense out to dry. It seemed that he couldn't figure out a way to get the ball in the spots he actually wanted (like that buzzer beater where he ended up getting the ball at like half court because he ignored the screen and then got pushed out to half court). That alone makes his offensive game inferior (just slightly) to Carmelo's right now. I honestly don't think his basketball IQ is very high at all. I love his humbleness, and I wish more players handled themselves the way he does off the court, but this post-season his weaknesses were really exposed.

Carmelo really has no weakness offensively besides the fact that he can be a ball stopper at times, but it's that way with pretty much every elite scorer in the NBA. That and the fact that he apparently gets blocked a ton (I don't know the stat, but someone else mentioned it before).

Both guys have a ton of potential. If Melo plays defense the way he did in the Boston series, I think he's a top 5 player in the NBA easily. If Durant improves his post-game, ability to work off and set screens, and continues to improve his defense, he'll be a top 5 player as well.

On a side note, looking at the playoff stats, if not for one game where Pierce went 14/19 and 6/8 from 3 point range, Melo had him shooting 36.5% from the field in the other 3 games of the series, which was significantly better than the job that LeBron (one of the supposed best defenders in the NBA) did on him.

[jeebs9]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

^^Why does he have to be mentioned in this thread? lol Doesn't he have his own thread? lol^^

[Bumi]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

Yea I'm pretty much on the same page. Even though Durant is better defensive. He doesn't have Melo offensive game. I feel as thought Durant can turn into a jumpshooter too easily at times.

Durant is better than Melo offensively. From everywhere. He averages more points, on higher efficiency.

And Durant is the only perimeter player that finished top 10 in dunks. Turn into a jump shooter too easily at times?

And dont get me wrong, KD is already a great player and will only get better....but to answer Bumis question: I knew his stat sheet would be fine, thats not what I was looking for. I expected to see more toughness from Durant...whether it was his defeated look at times, or him getting bullied off his spot by defenders. I think its something he should develop, but for right now id take Melos bully ball down the stretch every time...

4th Season. Western Conference finals. 22 years old. 29/9/3/.58 TS%. 3 Games short of his first title birth.

What are you looking for and who has it?

I think it's been covered pretty well in this thread, but like I mentioned countless times in the playoffs threads, Durant really struggled getting open at least in the Dallas series. He came off of screens poorly, sometimes ignoring them completely, and instead fading into the corner and basically leaving the offense out to dry. It seemed that he couldn't figure out a way to get the ball in the spots he actually wanted (like that buzzer beater where he ended up getting the ball at like half court because he ignored the screen and then got pushed out to half court). That alone makes his offensive game inferior (just slightly) to Carmelo's right now. I honestly don't think his basketball IQ is very high at all. I love his humbleness, and I wish more players handled themselves the way he does off the court, but this post-season his weaknesses were really exposed

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/05/22/oklahoma-citys-offense-and-the-lack-of-creativitymovement/

I've said this once and I'll say it again. Durant's weakness, outside of being a weaker player, is his coach. Durant's a young player, young players need structure and coaching to play well and learn. Did you watch Durant chuck a 26 footer because he was hounded by defenses inside of the arc? Did you see him force the ball into a double team? Struggle to get open because Dallas had 2 defenders on him?

Sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Durant, Westbrook, etc; Were making plays and playing well up until Harden went out. Thabo comes in and suddenly Dallas can do whatever they want on defense. Brooks lost that series. You don't put young players in that position.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Let's settle this: Kevin Durant vs. Carmelo Anthony

^^Why does he have to be mentioned in this thread? lol Doesn't he have his own thread? lol^^

Lol sorry, I was just pointing it out because it was the first time I've really seen Melo try to lock in defensively for an extended period of time (he may have in the WCF a few years ago but I don't really remember), and I wanted to look at how Pierce did in the 2nd round and it just so happened to be that he was matched up against LeBron and played much better for the most part.

Durant is better than Melo offensively. From everywhere. He averages more points, on higher efficiency.

This just isn't true. There's really no way to prove that one guy is better than the other offensively when they're as gifted as these two guys are, so that's strictly your opinion. And he isn't better "from everywhere". If you're going to say Durant is better around the rim because his efficiency at the rim is higher (while getting to the rim less than half the amount of times that Carmelo does), then I can just as well say Melo is a better mid-range and 3 point shooter because he is more efficient from there. Melo gets to the rim 7.3 times per game (in Denver, I believe it was just under LeBron's number) while the next closest SF (LeBron) gets there 5.9 times. Durant gets there 3.6 times a game, which is less than Andrei Kirilenko and Danny Granger. That's pretty weak. Also, the vast majority of Durant's shots are assisted by teammates, which while you can argue that it means he's good at working off the ball, it can also be used to point to the fact that he has a hard time getting his own shot. Lastly, you say Durant is a better finisher because of his sky high % around the rim on 3.6 attempts per game. However, you look at Melo who averaged 7.3 attempts per game in Denver and shot like 55% (Durant shot 77%), but then when Melo got to New York, he didn't attack the rim as much (only about 5.5 times per game, which is still a lot more often than Durant but a lot less for himself), his percentage jumped up into the high 60's, so I think one could argue that if Melo didn't force it as much as he did in Denver (where he didn't have a Russell Westbrook caliber player), that his efficiency around the rim would probably be on par with Durant's.

And Durant is the only perimeter player that finished top 10 in dunks. Turn into a jump shooter too easily at times?

Durant took 19% of his shots at the rim. In Denver, Carmelo took about 36% of his shots at the rim, and in New York, I believe it was somewhere around 27% of his shots. So yes, considering 81% of Durant's shot attempts were jumpers/floaters, I think you can definitely argue he turns into too much of a jumpshooter at times.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/05/22/oklahoma-citys-offense-and-the-lack-of-creativitymovement/

I've said this once and I'll say it again. Durant's weakness, outside of being a weaker player, is his coach. Durant's a young player, young players need structure and coaching to play well and learn. Did you watch Durant chuck a 26 footer because he was hounded by defenses inside of the arc? Did you see him force the ball into a double team? Struggle to get open because Dallas had 2 defenders on him?

No, I saw him refuse to run the offense that Brooks had called for (which was designed pretty well), and instead, got forced out to almost half court because of his own mental mistake.

Also, you can just as easily look at this article from the same website about Kevin Durant's struggles running the offense.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/05/24/did-kevin-durant-blow-that-final-play/#more-14669

Sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Durant, Westbrook, etc; Were making plays and playing well up until Harden went out. Thabo comes in and suddenly Dallas can do whatever they want on defense. Brooks lost that series. You don't put young players in that position.

Once again, that is strictly your opinion. Lots of people think Russell Westbrook lost the series (not me). A lot of people blame Brooks, and some people just accept the fact that Dallas was the better team (my opinion). And I think it's kind of silly to say "you don't put young players in that position" when you're giving the guy credit for being one of the top 5 players in the NBA (pretty sure you've said he's top 5, but if not, my mistake). When you're credited as an elite player, it's your job to put the team on your back a little bit when the going gets rough.

Also, you say "Sometimes there's just nothing you can do", but then blame Scott Brooks. If there was nothing you could do, then it seems to me that the Thunder lost because the Mavs were a superior team, not because of any deficiencies from Scott Brooks.