Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

[trekfan]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

I'll assemble an expansion team based on the talent available. Some solid players were excluded from your list however such as Michael Beasley and P.J. Tucker. There was also some confusion about the Miami Johnson's since they employ both Tyler and James.

Starters
PG: Goran Dragic
SG: Courtney Lee
SF: Evan Turner
PF: Markieff Morris
C: Robin Lopez

Primary Subs
Marcus Smart
Allen Crabbe
Dwyane Wade
Enes Kanter
Jonas Valanciunas

Others on bench
Derrick Rose
Shaun Livingston
Derrick Favors
Greg Monroe
Gorgui Dieng

So how would this team look on the floor? Well, their biggest assets would be their power and size throughout but especially in the frontcourt. The screens would be solid and the boards would always be attacked and protected. The depth of this squad is tough to match.

Perimeter shooting is a big concern for this cast though with Allen Crabbe and Courtney Lee being the only dead-eye three ballers. Overall team-speed is lacking. The bench lacks defenders.

Drop them into the Eastern Conference and they pound and power their way to about 49 wins. They would easily win a first round playoff series before bowing out in the second round to Cleveland or Boston in seven close games.

If they were thrust into the Western Conference they would blast and bang to about 47 wins. In the first playoff round they would surprise a higher ranked club like Houston and win in six games. In the next round they would meet Golden State and would lose in five games because of too many slow bigs being matched up against GState's speedsters.

Appreciate the response, man. Looks like you're aiming for a competitive team with your draft style there. No love for any of the 2017 rookies? Or 2016 Sophomores? The Pacers have just lost their whole team, so I'd be inclined to stock up on former 1st round picks and a few good vets to help teach the kids the way of the NBA.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

Appreciate the response, man. Looks like you're aiming for a competitive team with your draft style there. No love for any of the 2017 rookies? Or 2016 Sophomores? The Pacers have just lost their whole team, so I'd be inclined to stock up on former 1st round picks and a few good vets to help teach the kids the way of the NBA.

With rookies it usually takes at least three years to figure out the NBA game and for big men it takes about five years.

[trekfan]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

With rookies it usually takes at least three years to figure out the NBA game and for big men it takes about five years.

Definitely don't disagree -- but I feel like, if an entire team just got snuffed out, I would need to give the fans something more than a competitive squad that likely would make the playoffs in the East (and get massacred in round 1).

Especially considering the contract status of some of those guys and the "this ain't right/feels weird" factor playing for a team that suffered such a tragic loss, I would aim for young guys to use as the foundation for a new team.

Let the fans go through the growing pains with the new guys, let the fans have time to mourn the loss of their last team, and build for the future. I'd be banking on hope heavily, just to give the organization, families, friends, and fans a sense of something good happening down the line.

A winning record and a round 1 sweep doesn't really give me much of a foundation to work with -- the instant gratification would look foolish 2-3 years down the line I would think.

[jeremym480]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

With rookies it usually takes at least three years to figure out the NBA game and for big men it takes about five years.

I think from a competitive standpoint you put together about as nice of a team as you could. However, from a salary cap perspective, you have to get some guys on their rookie deals on there.

I can't imagine an owner, who is drafting a new team on the fly would want to go into the luxury tax, especially knowing that his team wouldn't be competing for a title (or probably even the playoffs). Obviously, getting the best players available is important but getting players who are on their rookie deals (where you still have multiple years on control) should be the top priority (imo).

[AlexBrady]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

Definitely don't disagree -- but I feel like, if an entire team just got snuffed out, I would need to give the fans something more than a competitive squad that likely would make the playoffs in the East (and get massacred in round 1).

Especially considering the contract status of some of those guys and the "this ain't right/feels weird" factor playing for a team that suffered such a tragic loss, I would aim for young guys to use as the foundation for a new team.

Let the fans go through the growing pains with the new guys, let the fans have time to mourn the loss of their last team, and build for the future. I'd be banking on hope heavily, just to give the organization, families, friends, and fans a sense of something good happening down the line.

A winning record and a round 1 sweep doesn't really give me much of a foundation to work with -- the instant gratification would look foolish 2-3 years down the line I would think.

The unmatched depth, versatility, and incredible power would make that team a serious Eastern conference contender. They get a high playoff seed in the east and easily win their first round series. In the second round they face off against either Cleveland or Boston. I see either of those series going seven games. And anything can happen in a seventh game.

Even in the West that ballclub would win a first round series against an overrated Houston or Thunder squad. Theoretically, they would then have to match up against Golden State and would probably be out-quicked. Then again, Golden State is undersized down low and sometimes power trumps quickness.

The team even has young forces like Marcus Smart and Jonas Valanciunas that have proven to be productive and still have room to expand their games. No doubt about it, this team makes a serious playoff push in either conference and still has a promising future.

I think from a competitive standpoint you put together about as nice of a team as you could. However, from a salary cap perspective, you have to get some guys on their rookie deals on there.

I can't imagine an owner, who is drafting a new team on the fly would want to go into the luxury tax, especially knowing that his team wouldn't be competing for a title (or probably even the playoffs). Obviously, getting the best players available is important but getting players who are on their rookie deals (where you still have multiple years on control) should be the top priority (imo).

It's totally understood in the NBA that you have to be willing to spend big to win big. The rookies and sophmores that trekfan made available were unproven and unimpressive to me. Besides, do you really want to wait three to five years for your team to come around?

The team has underrated power players like Robin Lopez and Markieff Morris. The lefty drives of Goran Dragic. Courtney Lee plays both ends well. Evan Turner is another all arounder. Off the bench Kanter and Valanciunas will abuse second-liners. Can you imagine Wade running his isos against bench guys? Marcus Smart is a powerhouse force against all comers. The rest of the bench still boasts starting-caliber players that can be mixed and matched in and out.

They would qualify for the playoffs and make a legitimate run that everyone could get behind.

[jeremym480]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

It's totally understood in the NBA that you have to be willing to spend big to win big. The rookies and sophmores that trekfan made available were unproven and unimpressive to me. Besides, do you really want to wait three to five years for your team to come around?

The team has underrated power players like Robin Lopez and Markieff Morris. The lefty drives of Goran Dragic. Courtney Lee plays both ends well. Evan Turner is another all arounder. Off the bench Kanter and Valanciunas will abuse second-liners. Can you imagine Wade running his isos against bench guys? Marcus Smart is a powerhouse force against all comers. The rest of the bench still boasts starting-caliber players that can be mixed and matched in and out.

They would qualify for the playoffs and make a legitimate run that everyone could get behind.

That sounds nice on the court, however when you take a quick look at the salaries:

Starters
PG: Goran Dragic - 17M
SG: Courtney Lee - 11.7
SF: Evan Turner - 17.1
PF: Markieff Morris - 8
C: Robin Lopez - 13.7

Primary Subs
Marcus Smart - 4.5
Allen Crabbe - 18.5
Dwyane Wade - 23.8
Enes Kanter - 17.8
Jonas Valanciunas - 15.4

The current 17/18 salary of this team would be right around $147.5 million....and that doesn't include the "Others on bench" section which would make it even more. That is $10 million more than the current highest, the Warriors at $137.4M and that team is only 10 deep. That would be luxury tax hell for a team without any real stars or any chance of winning a title.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

That sounds nice on the court, however when you take a quick look at the salaries:

Starters
PG: Goran Dragic - 17M
SG: Courtney Lee - 11.7
SF: Evan Turner - 17.1
PF: Markieff Morris - 8
C: Robin Lopez - 13.7

Primary Subs
Marcus Smart - 4.5
Allen Crabbe - 18.5
Dwyane Wade - 23.8
Enes Kanter - 17.8
Jonas Valanciunas - 15.4

The current 17/18 salary of this team would be right around $147.5 million....and that doesn't include the "Others on bench" section which would make it even more. That is $10 million more than the current highest, the Warriors at $137.4M and that team is only 10 deep. That would be luxury tax hell for a team without any real stars or any chance of winning a title.

You have to be willing to go as deep into the luxury tax as possible. The key to the NBA still is and always has been about role-playing. The greatest player of all time, Bill Russell, was essentially a role-player.

Winning a playoff series, advancing and pushing the top teams to game sevens is well worth it. Anything can happen in a competitive seven game series and this team's power, depth, and versatility just might be good enough to cop the gold.

[Themayorofawsometown]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

You have to be willing to go as deep into the luxury tax as possible. The key to the NBA still is and always has been about role-playing. The greatest player of all time, Bill Russell, was essentially a role-player.

Winning a playoff series, advancing and pushing the top teams to game sevens is well worth it. Anything can happen in a competitive seven game series and this team's power, depth, and versatility just might be good enough to cop the gold.

So you would rather have Golden States budget and have half the team than have a young team filled with recent draft picks and some vets? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me plus I don't think any owner would pay the tax for a team led by Dragic

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[AlexBrady]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

So you would rather have Golden States budget and have half the team than have a young team filled with recent draft picks and some vets? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me plus I don't think any owner would pay the tax for a team led by Dragic

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I've said that I think the fantasy expansion team would present some problems for Golden State to deal with. The expansion team with Lopez, Morris, Valanciunas, and Kanter would totally control the boards and real estate near the basket. That would slow the pace to a crawl and turn each game into a battle. The gameplan would be to stuff the ball inside as much as possible. And Curry would be mercilessly run into wall-like screens. It is an interesting scenario and an upset for the expansion squad isn't unimaginable.

So you pay some extra money for a chance at eternity. The commitment and significance of a Championship lasts forever. And why are you guys so concerned with a fantasy owner's money? What transpires on the court is all that matters.

Goran Dragic is in the 10-13 rating range of the league's point men. Strong driver. Streaky outside shooter. Okay passer. More scoring-minded than a true blue point. Lacks the quickness of most point guards. Poor defender.

[trekfan]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

You have to be willing to go as deep into the luxury tax as possible. The key to the NBA still is and always has been about role-playing. The greatest player of all time, Bill Russell, was essentially a role-player.

Winning a playoff series, advancing and pushing the top teams to game sevens is well worth it. Anything can happen in a competitive seven game series and this team's power, depth, and versatility just might be good enough to cop the gold.

Oh, I disagree vehemently that Russell was "essentially" a role player. Russell was an absolute beast defensively and on the boards, made his teammates better all the way around, and wasn't a slouch in the clutch or when you needed points either. He was uber-talented player who knew his role (defender, rebounder, terror in the paint) but certainly wasn't just a role player. He was a superstar who was smart enough to play with his teammates and within the system, someone who was fine with covering for others weaknesses.

That aside -- I don't disagree that the way to win a title is to have guys who know their roles and play them well. But you also have to have guys who can operate outside of those roles, who can take a game over and get you that clutch bucket, and your roster has ... Wade? At 35? Or Dragic at 31?

I see no way for the team you've constructed to beat the Warriors in seven games. Maybe they win 1 game -- Wade could have a throwback performance night, one last legendary playoff win -- but I don't see them making the playoffs in the West at all (the conference is too deep).

Out East, they absolutely could get 40-45 wins if things fall in place ... but I still think the team is first round fodder and that's it. The salary situation is ugly, the roster isn't built to age gracefully, and there's no young talent (on cheap deals) to build around in the next 2-3 years. It's a very short-term, instant gratification roster, in my view.

Despite that, it's not a poorly constructed roster to win games that season. And it certainly isn't how I would approach it, but that's exactly why I put the question out there: I wanted to hear different ideas and approaches. You've definitely provided a lot to think about, so thank you.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Catastrophe Rule Expansion Draft

Oh, I disagree vehemently that Russell was "essentially" a role player. Russell was an absolute beast defensively and on the boards, made his teammates better all the way around, and wasn't a slouch in the clutch or when you needed points either. He was uber-talented player who knew his role (defender, rebounder, terror in the paint) but certainly wasn't just a role player. He was a superstar who was smart enough to play with his teammates and within the system, someone who was fine with covering for others weaknesses.

That aside -- I don't disagree that the way to win a title is to have guys who know their roles and play them well. But you also have to have guys who can operate outside of those roles, who can take a game over and get you that clutch bucket, and your roster has ... Wade? At 35? Or Dragic at 31?

I see no way for the team you've constructed to beat the Warriors in seven games. Maybe they win 1 game -- Wade could have a throwback performance night, one last legendary playoff win -- but I don't see them making the playoffs in the West at all (the conference is too deep).

Out East, they absolutely could get 40-45 wins if things fall in place ... but I still think the team is first round fodder and that's it. The salary situation is ugly, the roster isn't built to age gracefully, and there's no young talent (on cheap deals) to build around in the next 2-3 years. It's a very short-term, instant gratification roster, in my view.

Despite that, it's not a poorly constructed roster to win games that season. And it certainly isn't how I would approach it, but that's exactly why I put the question out there: I wanted to hear different ideas and approaches. You've definitely provided a lot to think about, so thank you.

For me, a role-player is someone who can change the game without ever having to touch the ball on a consistent basis. That was Russell's job description and yes he was the best defender the NBA has ever seen.

In addition to Dwyane Wade, Courtney Lee, Evan Turner, and Marcus Smart have proven to be clutch players and would be counted on to deliver in the endgame.

The way to beat the Warriors is to slow the pace, pound the offensive boards, run Curry into solid screens, and drive with power to the basket. This expansion team is suited to doing that. Of course, there is the give back on the defensive end with all the big on small matchups. Still, the possibility of victory is too intriguing to pass up.