Top-10 Players in the NBA

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

Someone explain to me what make Paul's Defense so great.

Serious question, not trying to start anything.

[Dice]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

Someone explain to me what make Paul's Defense so great.

Serious question, not trying to start anything.

I wouldn't say it was great BUT he can have an impact on the game defensively. As wwharton stated, he creates turnovers with steals. He may not be a great one-on-one defender but with his play in the passing lanes he's a good team defender.

[DukeC]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

Dis you really just say Chris Paul doesn't play any defense? He's one of the best defensive point guards in the league, the numbers and just watching him would tell you otherwise. His only hinderance is his height (or lack of).

Playing the passing lane is playing defense... as is creating turnovers (getting steals).

To say someone isn't the best defender just bc they get lots of steals is a valid argument. To say they don't play D when they get lots of steals is a stretch.

I've always found it funny when someone says getting steals is not playing defense. I've always hold guys high who are active on the defensive end. And make impact plays on D.

I may have stated it wrong, but I think you guys get my general point. I just don't believe solely playing the passing lanes is playing good defense. I define good defense as keeping your man in front of you unless your job is to just funnel him into the lane, then it might be a combination of not being a good man to man defender and it being a part of a team philosophy (as in, "Please don't rack up fouls, you're too important" type of philosophy).

[RedSceptile]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

I may have stated it wrong, but I think you guys get my general point. I just don't believe solely playing the passing lanes is playing good defense. I define good defense as keeping your man in front of you unless your job is to just funnel him into the lane, then it might be a combination of not being a good man to man defender and it being a part of a team philosophy (as in, "Please don't rack up fouls, you're too important" type of philosophy).

Of note Paul plays stellar man defense (fights through screens, contests shots smartly) his real knack is his lack of height when you're 6'0 (barely more like 5'11) it's easy for people to just shoot over you ( Paul has blocked 36 shots so far in his career, Derrick Rose blocked 53 alone this season) his PP on jump shooting are medium-high but when you consider that players just shoot over him it isn't much he can do. Then there's the fact he plays with statistically (and anyone can see with their own two eyes) the worst defensive Shooting Guard in the NBA in Marco Bellineli who's defense can best be described as "standing there and occasionally raising a hand in the air" Paul had the 9th best Isolation PP of any starting Point Guard but his Opponent field goal percentage was mediocre (hence the whole height thing) not much he can do about it.

[jeebs9]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

But what Point Guards in the league shut down other points in the league. I mean would you call any of the top point guards shut down defenders. Not really...

[wwharton]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

I may have stated it wrong, but I think you guys get my general point. I just don't believe solely playing the passing lanes is playing good defense. I define good defense as keeping your man in front of you unless your job is to just funnel him into the lane, then it might be a combination of not being a good man to man defender and it being a part of a team philosophy (as in, "Please don't rack up fouls, you're too important" type of philosophy).

Taken to the other extreme, visit your local playground and see a guy face guarding everywhere on the court and swearing he's a great defender. If you only care about your man then you may be a good defender in a game of one on one but I wouldn't want you on my team. A great defender can not only play on the ball, but also play the passing lanes, rotate properly to help, read offensive tendencies and put teammates in the right place based on that, etc, etc. There's a lot that goes into being a good defender. It's kind of nitpicking to pick out one thing one player does right or wrong and label them good or bad.

I haven't analyzed PG defenders enough to really say Paul or anyone else is really a "great" defender or not, but I've heard too many claim that players that get lots of steals aren't good defenders... that's just not a sound argument. If the statement is that's all they do and that's why they're JUST good and not great, then I'm with you. But a guy getting 3 steals a game is a good defender. He may or may not be great depending on everything else, but the point of defense is to get the ball back without the other team scoring, and 3 steals a game is doing a pretty good job of that.

[Dice]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

John Stockton gets high praises to the moon about his defense. Yet, when I watched him play I used to see him get torched by the likes of Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson and even Tim Hardaway. BUT he's the all time leader in steals and plays the passing lanes like no other point guard. So is his defense crap because his one-on-one defense was not that good?

[wwharton]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

John Stockton gets high praises to the moon about his defense. Yet, when I watched him play I used to see him get torched by the likes of Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson and even Tim Hardaway. BUT he's the all time leader in steals and plays the passing lanes like no other point guard. So is his defense crap because his one-on-one defense was not that good?

Adding to this, I'm not sure there are any one on one defenders that can stop a all star player with skills attacking the basket. Man to man D is really a man on the ball and 4 other guys helping (either sliding in behind to help, rotating on the weak side, etc). We all remember the video of Jordan getting used by AI one on one and we know Jordan was a great defender. If you're iso with a guy like that you make them shoot and hope they miss.

[Colts18]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

John Stockton gets high praises to the moon about his defense. Yet, when I watched him play I used to see him get torched by the likes of Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson and even Tim Hardaway. BUT he's the all time leader in steals and plays the passing lanes like no other point guard. So is his defense crap because his one-on-one defense was not that good?

But who doesn't get torched by those dudes?

[Dice]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

But who doesn't get torched by those dudes?

That's the whole point. People get up in arms about Chris Paul's defense when someone like Deron Williams or Derrick Rose is busting him for 30. These guys freaking elite PG's! Rose hangs 30 points on Rondo and no one is downing Rondo's defense.

The PG crop is probably the best it’s been in a while. So even those who are a step below elite are still good PG’s.

[MikeBadge]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

But what Point Guards in the league shut down other points in the league. I mean would you call any of the top point guards shut down defenders. Not really...

Deron Williams makes Chris Paul and Steph Curry (two top 5 point guards in my opinion) look horrible in their head to head match-ups.

[MikeBadge]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

To speak on the top 10 question (in order. A's, B's, and Cs are interchangeable):

1a)Chris Paul
1b)Deron Williams
3)Kevin Durant
4a)LeBron James
4b)Derrick Rose
4c)Dwight Howard
7)Dirk Nowitzki (would be higher if he gave an effort on defense)
8)Dwyane Wade
9)Monta Ellis
10)Kobe Bryant

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

How about top 10 players for each of the past 10 years?

[BaselinexDrive]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

Top 10 in order.

1. Lebron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Derrick Rose
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Dirk Knowitzki


6. Carmelo Anthony
7. Kevin Durant
8. Dwight Howard
9. Chris Paul
10. Deron Williams

[nuggetsguy]

Re: Top-10 Players in the NBA

I would go with:
1. Lebron James(in terms of physical dominance)
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chris Paul
6. Derrick Rose
7. Dwight Howard
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Deron Williams
10. Carmelo Anthony