NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Couldn't disagree more, Dice.

1) If there is a deal, its guaranteed to be in the owners favor. Why? Because they have already negotiated 52.5 percent from 57%. Even if the system stays as it is...the owners still took care of their biggest concern and negotiated 1.1 billion more than the players over 6 yrs.

2) There is no crossing picket lines because this isn't a strike. So the whole "play without the superstars" theory isn't a reality. The owners will only open the doors if the union approves a CBA. There are 400 members of the NBAPA and only 13 superstars. If ratification passes, those 13 superstars will fall in line and play ball.

3) The players are actually losing money. For example, Lets say you have 2000 bucks in your account and you have no job and 2000 in expenses each month....you have no money. At the end of the month, you will be forced to spend that 2000.

Another example, lets say you make 4k a month at your job and your expenses are around 3200 a month. Normally you have 800 bucks in free spending money each month. Next month you get laid off and are forced to take a job that pays 2k a month. You lost 2k a month and now you either have to sell your possessions or using your savings to cover expenses.


The owners have other means of income and most of the 400 players don't. Its that simple.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

And to quote what I said the other day since you're repeating some of the stuff I said:

And no matter what side you're on but if you can't see that the players have no leverage at this point, then you must still be waiting for the Rapture to take place tonight.

Like it was said earlier(think it was by 24)this is about common sense now and common sense should tell AND show you that the players have nothing to gain by missing checks. If you wanted to show people that you had control then you should've walked out back in February at the ASB when you the chance.

Now you wanna miss games because of what? Ego? To tell your boys that you stood up to the big, bad NBA because of "what we believe in"? How does that help you at all in the long run? Seriously?

Guys like Dolan, Leonsis, Prokhorov, Jordan, Sterling, Cuban...these guys can afford to miss a season or MORE because they still have other methods of making plenty of money. The rest of them, I'm not even sure that they can survive this beyond 2 years(because I don't know their financial status at this point)

But let's cut the **** on one thing: The players don't any leverage at all. And what can the players say to the Owners? "Oh, you need us because nobody is going to come to see James White from Harlem, NY play for the Knicks because nobody knows who the **** he is, so now what!?!?"

And you know what the Owners then can say: "Ok, you're right about that but let me ask you this? Who's going to pay you what WE are paying you to sit around on your *** doing nothing? You think Nike or Adidas are going to continue to paying while you're sitting around participating in BS "Charity Tournaments" that can't even be seen nationally? What about in 2012-13 when there's still no Basketball, you don't think they're not going to ask you for a paycut or else they'll release you? The Fans are already starting to turn against you faster than they will on us, do you want to deal with that for the next couple of years while this thing lasts?"
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[NDAlum]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

LOL @ the notion of these players living paycheck to paycheck

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Why is it a notion... its been said plenty, and proven with them going broke after retirement no long from there

[jeremym480]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion



Nice post cjonesfan921. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Couldn't disagree more, Dice.

1) If there is a deal, its guaranteed to be in the owners favor. Why? Because they have already negotiated 52.5 percent from 57%. Even if the system stays as it is...the owners still took care of their biggest concern and negotiated 1.1 billion more than the players over 6 yrs.

2) There is no crossing picket lines because this isn't a strike. So the whole "play without the superstars" theory isn't a reality. The owners will only open the doors if the union approves a CBA. There are 400 members of the NBAPA and only 13 superstars. If ratification passes, those 13 superstars will fall in line and play ball.

3) The players are actually losing money. For example, Lets say you have 2000 bucks in your account and you have no job and 2000 in expenses each month....you have no money. At the end of the month, you will be forced to spend that 2000.

Another example, lets say you make 4k a month at your job and your expenses are around 3200 a month. Normally you have 800 bucks in free spending money each month. Next month you get laid off and are forced to take a job that pays 2k a month. You lost 2k a month and now you either have to sell your possessions or using your savings to cover expenses.


The owners have other means of income and most of the 400 players don't. Its that simple.

1) That's if the season is cancelled, which is the plan all along. Then yes, the would be a slanted deal in favor of the owners. BUT I just think the owners would be going against their own plan if they made a deal to save the season this year. The players say they're going to dig in so I'm not sure they're going to take that 'up the rear' deal right now. They'll wait until next year if that happens.

2) you really think so? Most people think that there are few owners holding out for more concessions on the CBA. So if these few guys can hold up the owners as a hold, why don't you think the superstars aren't doing the same? And if these 13 guys are going to be stubborn, what's to say that they don't just leave the union? I don't think it's going to be that simple. This hold thing hasn't been simple at all.

3) And as I stated, they have income coming in. They can still play overseas. They still have this tour that they're about to start. And they're still getting there endorsement money. So they still have income coming in.

And yes, we all know the owners have other means of income. Yes, we know the lower tier players won't have as much as the superstars. BUT as I stated, it's not about them as a whole. It's about those superstars.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

1) That's if the season is cancelled, which is the plan all along. Then yes, the would be a slanted deal in favor of the owners. BUT I just think the owners would be going against their own plan if they made a deal to save the season this year. The players say they're going to dig in so I'm not sure they're going to take that 'up the rear' deal right now. They'll wait until next year if that happens.

2) you really think so? Most people think that there are few owners holding out for more concessions on the CBA. So if these few guys can hold up the owners as a hold, why don't you think the superstars aren't doing the same? And if these 13 guys are going to be stubborn, what's to say that they don't just leave the union? I don't think it's going to be that simple. This hold thing hasn't been simple at all.

3) And as I stated, they have income coming in. They can still play overseas. They still have this tour that they're about to start. And they're still getting there endorsement money. So they still have income coming in.

And yes, we all know the owners have other means of income. Yes, we know the lower tier players won't have as much as the superstars. BUT as I stated, it's not about them as a whole. It's about those superstars.

1) Right now the players would absolutely accept a 52.5% BRI share with the system staying the same. They've said as much. That deal is a huge win for the owners RIGHT NOW and the deal isn't going to get better for the players. If a deal is made it will be similar to that offer with a few more tweaks that are pro owner.

2) LOL. Dice, that is an absolutely insane thought. You seriously think thats an option? Here is the problem with that theory. It would make no sense for the superstars. The premise is a new CBA is ratified by 300 plus members of the union but the 13 superstars don't like the deal and vote no and leave the union? Well first, you can't play in the NBA (under a CBA) if you aren't subject to Union rules so its not like those 13 individuals could negotiate their own terms (like salary cap or year restrictions on those 13 contracts). Also, the public backlash those players would receive would be so horrible its funny even thinking about it.

Using the NFL lockout for an example, when it was rumored that Vincent Jackson was holding up the ratification of the most recent CBA because of his lawsuit and his free agency demand, The media crushed Jackson so bad that he had to violate a gag order and leak that he wasn't making any demands.

Think if Lebron did that. LOL. Think about how that reads: 13 superstar players refuse to play under an agreement that 300 other union players agreed to. There is NO way this ever happens. Too much bad PR, too many endorsement risks and too much backlash.

3)There are 400 players in the Union and under 100 are playing overseas. Most of those overseas jobs are gone. The only ones that are available are for Superstars like Kobe or when players get injured (Thats why JJ Hickson wa able to sign with a team today) The money isn't there and for most they are paid significantly less than they would here even under a bad CBA.

You are giving the superstars way too much credit. They have a significant voice but not enough to kill a deal after players are losing money. Lets say its December and players have missed 3 paychecks. You think Matt Bonner or Landry Fields or Jason Thompson are going to give a **** if Kevin Garnett urges them to stand united...LOL. They are going to be willing to take the best deal they can. Just like in 1998.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

1)
You are giving the superstars way too much credit. They have a significant voice but not enough to kill a deal after players are losing money. Lets say its December and players have missed 3 paychecks. You think Matt Bonner or Landry Fields or Jason Thompson are going to give a **** if Kevin Garnett urges them to stand united...LOL. They are going to be willing to take the best deal they can. Just like in 1998.

I believe in the 98 lockout towards the end the players started to have frictions with eachother, and you had better believe it would happen this time too

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

LOL @ the notion of these players living paycheck to paycheck

The problem is a lot of these players don't understand fiscal responsibility. They buy houses and cars that cost a high amount month to month to maintain. It's not like they're taking up a 1 bedroom apartment downtown and banking their checks. They love the high life and they can afford it, once the extravagant paydays stop it really does become an issue if they didn't save up. You end up seeing a lot of guys sell their mansions after retiring because there's no way they can continue to shell out for those bills. Same thing could happen with an extended lockout.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I wish I could get a job being a financial adviser to these idiots.

I don't even have an accounting degree, but I'm not stupid.

That really needs to be something the teams should look into. Then again, it should be on the players.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
Hearing that NBA will cancel two more weeks of games tomorrow. In other words, Christmas is still on...for now

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

As long as I still get my Nets-Knicks games, I could give a crap if the rest of the season in cancelled. But for my own selfish reasons, I need Nets-Knicks this year man LOL.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Keep standing united, bros.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Billy Hunter was on the BS Report today.

Nothing really ground breaking on the podcast although Hunter said Cuban has an idea of a system that has no salary cap. They didn't expand on this topic.

Hunter said he reads Simmons articles and a lot of people within the NBA also read his stuff.

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

1) Right now the players would absolutely accept a 52.5% BRI share with the system staying the same. They've said as much. That deal is a huge win for the owners RIGHT NOW and the deal isn't going to get better for the players. If a deal is made it will be similar to that offer with a few more tweaks that are pro owner.

2) LOL. Dice, that is an absolutely insane thought. You seriously think thats an option? Here is the problem with that theory. It would make no sense for the superstars. The premise is a new CBA is ratified by 300 plus members of the union but the 13 superstars don't like the deal and vote no and leave the union? Well first, you can't play in the NBA (under a CBA) if you aren't subject to Union rules so its not like those 13 individuals could negotiate their own terms (like salary cap or year restrictions on those 13 contracts). Also, the public backlash those players would receive would be so horrible its funny even thinking about it.

Using the NFL lockout for an example, when it was rumored that Vincent Jackson was holding up the ratification of the most recent CBA because of his lawsuit and his free agency demand, The media crushed Jackson so bad that he had to violate a gag order and leak that he wasn't making any demands.

Think if Lebron did that. LOL. Think about how that reads: 13 superstar players refuse to play under an agreement that 300 other union players agreed to. There is NO way this ever happens. Too much bad PR, too many endorsement risks and too much backlash.

3)There are 400 players in the Union and under 100 are playing overseas. Most of those overseas jobs are gone. The only ones that are available are for Superstars like Kobe or when players get injured (Thats why JJ Hickson wa able to sign with a team today) The money isn't there and for most they are paid significantly less than they would here even under a bad CBA.

You are giving the superstars way too much credit. They have a significant voice but not enough to kill a deal after players are losing money. Lets say its December and players have missed 3 paychecks. You think Matt Bonner or Landry Fields or Jason Thompson are going to give a **** if Kevin Garnett urges them to stand united...LOL. They are going to be willing to take the best deal they can. Just like in 1998.

1) BUT that's the players offer. I thought it was common knowledge that the owners was going to offer less than 50%?

2) It sound crazy but if the superstars are unhappy about the deal then I can't see the union going against the players. We're forgetting about the role of the agents, who I think still have some influence in this game. And I'm talking about the big agents like Arn Tellum and Jeff Schwatz. These are guys who represent about half the league. So if their superstars clients aren't taking the deal, what makes you think that their lower teir clients will go against the grain? And let's just say that their lower tier clients are unhappy and looks like a mutiny, well, their agent can just tell them to go find someone else to represent you. BUT if the overall lower tier player voted for a slanted CBA against the superstar player, yes, I can see them leaving the union on suggestions of their agents. Remember, they're the ones who's pushing for a decert.

3) I think I said the superstar player are the ones with the overseas options. Yes, I already know that everyone will not have that option. And yes, I already know that'll be less. But it's a pay check. And yes, it ain't a $100 million dollar deal BUT it's still a deal in the millions. And you forgot about the endorsement by those superstar players, which are paying them millions as well.

I think you under estimate the superstars. They have more influence than you think. BUT we'll see when Stern gives his 'Drop Dead' date to cancel the entire season, which will be coming at the end of December. At that point, this is where ALL PARTIES will show their hand and we'll see who's going to blink at that point.