NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Who earned their money?

Take away guaranteed contracts and then theyll have earned it

75K guaranteed and a small chance to make more to ride the pine or better guaranteed

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

They earned it. They earned the chance to be in that position. They didnt hold a gun to anyones head for guarenteed contracts, you operate under the rules your given....

You really think the majority of NBA players have actually read through, understand and/or comprehend the proposal by the owners?

It's one thing to know what you're fighting for. Another totally different thing to get a summary by your agent or Hunter/Fisher.

Now I know why Danny Green is going crazy on his Twitter. That NBDL clause probably sent shivers down his spine.

I think they know alot more of us. We probably know about 50% of whats actually going on as we weed through twitter updates that constantly contradict each other....and press conferences blowing smoke. So even if they are "getting an update" from Fisher and Hunter its far better than what we have. I do think they know what they are fighting for. Ill leave you guys to argue about how eloquently they express it, or whether they are right or wrong.

[TN3LL]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

briancmahoney Brian Mahoney
Almost a dare. RT @JohnCanzanoBFT David Stern just said if players decertify, "four billion in guaranteed contracts" go away. Well played.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

briancmahoney Brian Mahoney
Almost a dare. RT @JohnCanzanoBFT David Stern just said if players decertify, "four billion in guaranteed contracts" go away. Well played.

Cant front, very well played, lol

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Dirty guy, man.

[TN3LL]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

EricPincus Eric Pincus
@
@briancmahoney stern is on specious legal grounds there but he's welcome to make any threat he wants


EricPincus Eric Pincus
@
@briancmahoney they'd make their case on that - don't see it passing by a judge though

[TN3LL]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Stern: Decertification will backfire on agents

Posted on: November 11, 2011 9:16 pm
Edited on: November 11, 2011 9:18 pm
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Posted by Ben Golliver.

NBA commissioner David Stern's talking points have crystallized: the league has officially made its best offer to the players, the 2011-2012 season rests in the hands of the NBPA, the possibility of a canceled season is unthinkable and the potential decertification of the union is a negotiating tactic that will backfire on the agents who are reportedly pushing fori t.

During a nationally-televised ESPN interview on Friday night, Stern laid out his arguments, point by point, explaining first why he chose to extend the deadline on the league's current offer past its original date of Wednesday.

"Well, we stopped the clock so that we could negotiate," Stern said, "and we came out of last night with a proposal as far as the owners could possibly reach to the players. That [proposal] provides a 72-game season starting Dec. 15. I'm very, very hopeful that the players and the union will say 'yes, let's have the season, let's begin it on Dec. 15.'"

Stern characterized the current proposal as possessing the largest concessions the NBA plans to make.

"The owners have moved to wherever they are going to move to," Stern said. "This is the proposal that's on the table. If it's not accepted, then we'll be substituting the proposal that the union knows about when the clock starts again, and it will be very far from where this proposal is."

The fall-back proposal is said to include a 47 percent revenue share for the players -- down from 50 percent contained in the current proposal -- and a flex cap system.

NBPA president Derek Fisher said on Thursday that the owners' proposal doesn't do enough to compensate the players on system issues for their possible $3 billion concession on the revenue split, thus opening up the possibility of a lost season.

Stern would have none of that.

"I refuse to contemplate the loss of a season," he said. "It's going to be too painful for the players and the owners alike. But [if it happened] we'll still be here, we'll pick up the pieces and do the best we can under the circumstances. That's not an eventuality that I anticipate or look forward to. It's all in the hands of the players."

For months, player agents have been pushing for the decertification of the union, a cry that drew more support following Thursday's negotiating session, when it became clear that the NBA's current offer was not substantially better than its previous one. Stern said the threat of decertification is a strategic play that would jeopardize the possibility of the 2011-2012 season taking place.

"[it's a move] actually calculated to, one, [serve] as a tactic to improve their bargaining position and, two, as making it even more likely that there won't be a season," Stern said.

If the union did decertify, Stern predicted the move would backfire.

"If the union is not in existence then neither are 4 billion dollars worth of guaranteed contracts that are entered into under condition that there's a union, so if the agents insist on playing with fire, my guess is that they would get themselves burned."

Asked if the NBA would employ "scab" players if the NBPA decertificed, Stern said simply: "I don't want to go there now."

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Giving them something to think about I see

[TN3LL]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

That's what i was thinking. Maybe they'll realize what's at stake here. But knowing them they won't.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

That's what i was thinking. Maybe they'll realize what's at stake here. But knowing them they won't.

Put the blame back on the players

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

"This isn't going to fly," said one formerly moderate agent now on board with the movement to decertify and vote down the owners' latest ultimatum proposal -- if it goes up for a vote at all.

"They've lost me," said one of the previously moderate agents. "Three months ago, we thought this would be done. We thought people would be reasonable."

"We'll try in court, because it can't get worse than this," one of the formerly moderate agents said. "... The owners are selling players short on their intelligence, and they're definitely selling their representatives short."

In the revised proposal, the owners made the following moves toward the players' position:

* Increase the mid-level exception for luxury tax-paying teams to three-year deals starting at $3 million, available every year. The previous proposal called for mid-level deals for tax teams to be for two years starting at $2.5 million and available every other year.

* Allow tax-payers to execute sign-and-trade transactions for the first two years of the agreement. Such trades would be banned for tax teams after that. They were completely banned for tax-payers in the prior proposal.

* Create a new, $2.5 million exception that can be used by teams that are under the cap. It would allow teams that previously only had cap space to sign a minimum salary player to offer more.

* Increase the team payroll floor (i.e. minimum team salary) to 90 percent of the cap in the third year of the deal and 85 percent in the first two years. It was 85 percent across the entire agreement in the previous proposal, and 75 percent in the prior CBA.

* Increase annual raises for Bird free agents to 6.5 percent, up from 5.5 percent in the prior proposal. Non-Bird players' annual raises remain capped at 3.5 percent, as in the previous proposal. In the prior CBA, Bird raises were capped at 10.5 percent and non-Bird at 8 percent.

* Increase qualifying offers to restricted free agents.

* Allow player options in contracts for players making less than the average league salary. In the previous proposal, player options were banned. There were no restrictions on player options in the previous CBA.

* Accept the union's proposal that each side be able to opt out of the 10-year CBA after the sixth year.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Ah, so Stern said "even more likely" there won't be a season the union decertifys....so A Parker wasn't completely talking out of his ***

[CMH]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

I think they know alot more of us.

I disagree.

I think sometimes we fall into this trap of thinking that players know all of the happenings of the league they play in. Players hardly know the actual rules of the league they play in.

Unless the media is lying, it has already been proven that the union leaders haven't even presented previous offers by the league to the player reps. If the player reps aren't seeing the terms, the 400 other players aren't seeing them. All they have is word of mouth like us.

[Taur3asi3]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

David Stern just turned 69 years old and this is almost surely going to be the last CBA he's a part of. For them to lose an entire season because of this petty garbage would kill him inside. He's always shown that he cares, maybe a little too much, about the public perception of the league and it's athletes and if they have to cancel the season it would tear down a good portion of what he spent the past 27 years helping to build. I'd really like to think that Stern realizes this and has gotten as much blood from the ownership stone as he can. Hopefully the players will realize this too.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

Ah, so Stern said "even more likely" there won't be a season the union decertifys....so A Parker wasn't completely talking out of his ***

Yes thats exactly what he was doing... and you know as well as any of us here do that decertification is not a 2 week process...shoot just for it to go up for a vote to look at takes 45 days in and of itself... come on man, some of these dudes like him is just talking out of his neck

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

I disagree.

I think sometimes we fall into this trap of thinking that players know all of the happenings of the league they play in. Players hardly know the actual rules of the league they play in.

Unless the media is lying, it has already been proven that the union leaders haven't even presented previous offers by the league to the player reps. If the player reps aren't seeing the terms, the 400 other players aren't seeing them. All they have is word of mouth like us.

And we here on the 'nets fall into a trap of thinking we have some kind of advantage b\c of these "sources" and "inside information" from twitter...when in fact, they have access to someone deeply involved in the talks.

Yes thats exactly what he was doing... and you know as well as any of us here do that decertification is not a 2 week process...shoot just for it to go up for a vote to look at takes 45 days in and of itself... come on man, some of these dudes like him is just talking out of his neck

Man you are so hell bent on getting at these players you dont see that Stern just said the same thing? lol... look at this quote.....thats what im pointing out...