NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

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  • DukeC
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 5751

    #526
    Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

    Originally posted by OSUFan_88
    Because the last CBA was ridiculously slanted for the players. You show me a union job that the workers receives 57% of the revenue.

    Basically, this is all because the last, old set of owners bought teams that were worth 5 million dollars and created hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, teams are being bought for 300 million, and people are losing money because of an unfair deal that the players are receiving most of the revenue.'

    Everyone understands this, and most of the major sports, the owners are getting more than 50% of the revenue. I think Football it's the owners getting 52%, the NHL I want to say is something like 55%, and not sure on baseball.

    Either way, the NBA is the only place where the owners are being screwed with their pants on because of the last CBA they signed. This isn't about rich dudes being greedy, this is about rich dudes needed to not lose money at a record pace because the players are getting all the profits. That system does not work for either owners, teams or players.

    The fact that the players were just given a proposal to accept 50% of the revenue and they declined shows all I need to know about them. That would have been a steal, but because this entire system is backasswards, the players declined to accept the deal. They are trying to keep hold of the sweetheart deal they got 7 years ago or however long it's been.

    The NBA is headed towards an NHL sized lockout if the players don't pull their heads out of their ***. The owners are in a stage where they won't blink, because paying the players nothing is a lot more of a benefit than paying them something. Either way, they lose money, and they lose less without a crappy NBA system right now.

    I feel like Billy Hunter is either totally incompetent or he's allowing Fisher dig his own grave. I cannot imagine that someone who is in such a high ranking job would be totally oblivious to what is going on here. It's mind boggling as to how out of touch the players are here. Their greed is going to end up biting them in the ***.

    In the end, these things all balance themselves out. The courts will never allow the players to be screwed for an extend period of time, and the owners wealth will never allow them to be screwed. It's all about leadership and vision as to how quickly they can work things out. Right now, the leadership and vision on the players side looks like that akin to a combination of Stevie Wonder's vision and George Custer's leadership skills.
    Stevie made me chuckle. Custer made me ""

    Comment

    • aholbert32
      (aka Alberto)
      • Jul 2002
      • 33106

      #527
      Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

      Great post man. The only thing I disagree with is the courts wont bail the NBAPA out. They will be stuck in court for a year and the still end up with less than 50%.

      Comment

      • RedSceptile
        MVP
        • Jun 2011
        • 3680

        #528
        Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

        I think everyone is blowing this "revenues are going down" thing out of proportion. I say take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt that teams are losing money not at all, but not at this apparently catastrophic state as being stated. If anything judging from what I've researched this CBA is all about making sure that once the new T.V. deals etc. roll around in 5 years the players are stuck at a fixed earning rate while the owners receive the majority of the profits. I personally believe that's why so many of the talks allude to this and many economists point this out as well.

        Not to mention I think it's fair to say that the salary rollbacks as well as hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts were a given to never occur in the first place so the owners seem like they're making "concessions" and notice how Stern still leaks to the media the dealings of the talk even when previously agreed to keep things hush hush? It's genius yet underhanded tactics that skew public perception completely in the way of the owners so people just go "Man they're so stupid" when we admittedly don't know the exact going ons. The owners don't really want to negotiate they want to crush the players and get as much as they possibly can even using the media and public perception to their advantage. Well played.

        Comment

        • Altimus
          Chelsea, Assemble!
          • Nov 2004
          • 27283

          #529
          Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

          Originally posted by aholbert32
          Great post man. The only thing I disagree with is the courts wont bail the NBAPA out. They will be stuck in court for a year and the still end up with less than 50%.
          That's what I'm saying as well. I'm surprised the agents which some are lawyers in one way or another don't see this.

          Comment

          • aholbert32
            (aka Alberto)
            • Jul 2002
            • 33106

            #530
            Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

            Originally posted by RedSceptile
            I think everyone is blowing this "revenues are going down" thing out of proportion. I say take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt that teams are losing money not at all, but not at this apparently catastrophic state as being stated. If anything judging from what I've researched this CBA is all about making sure that once the new T.V. deals etc. roll around in 5 years the players are stuck at a fixed earning rate while the owners receive the majority of the profits. I personally believe that's why so many of the talks allude to this and many economists point this out as well.

            Not to mention I think it's fair to say that the salary rollbacks as well as hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts were a given to never occur in the first place so the owners seem like they're making "concessions" and notice how Stern still leaks to the media the dealings of the talk even when previously agreed to keep things hush hush? It's genius yet underhanded tactics that skew public perception completely in the way of the owners so people just go "Man they're so stupid" when we admittedly don't know the exact going ons. The owners don't really want to negotiate they want to crush the players and get as much as they possibly can even using the media and public perception to their advantage. Well played.
            Maybe not a catastrophic rates but they are losing money. You cant tell me that teams like Milwaukee, Indiana, Sacramento, Minnesota and Charlotte arent losing money. The players arent even arguing about that anymore.

            As for Stern "leaking" things...thats bs. Hunter had the first press conference and announced what both sides offered before Stern even took the stage. If things were "hush, hush", Hunter would have said "Their number was acceptable to us" and left it at that. He said "They offered 47%". Stern at a press conference (not a leak) said we offered 47% but threw out 50% and they balked. Nobody leaked anything.

            Oh and those salary rollbacks, hard cap and non guaranteed contracts that you say the owners were never going to get...watch them get them if this lockout drags on. The league KNOWS it can get some of that by canceling a season so they are concessions geared to save the season.

            For everyone who sides with the players, answer this: Why is it ok for every other league (NHL, MLB, NFL) to give a majority of revenue to the owners but its wrong for the NBA owners t

            Comment

            • OSUFan_88
              Outback Jesus
              • Jul 2004
              • 25642

              #531
              Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

              Originally posted by aholbert32
              Great post man. The only thing I disagree with is the courts wont bail the NBAPA out. They will be stuck in court for a year and the still end up with less than 50%.
              I only said that in response to da Throne asking where do the rollbacks stop.

              The courts will ensure that the NBAPA is never at some ridiculous split.
              Too Old To Game Club

              Urban Meyer is lol.

              Comment

              • 23
                yellow
                • Sep 2002
                • 66469

                #532
                Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                Copy of the NBAPA letter to the players after the meeting

                Comment

                • Altimus
                  Chelsea, Assemble!
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 27283

                  #533
                  Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                  Every letter that comes out gets leaked immediately. Quite interesting.

                  Comment

                  • da ThRONe
                    Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 8528

                    #534
                    Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                    I think it's obvious the players have to make most if not all the concessions. The question is how much is too much. This is especially the case when your the only party losing something.

                    Like Red and I have pointed out the owners throw in all these things they don't want to begin with to make it seem like their making consessions. It's an tactic we saw the NFL owners use. I don't see how the owners can give up something they didn't have in the previous deal.

                    OSU88 show me a union that the employee and product. The NBA rely on their stars unlike all other major American sport.
                    Last edited by da ThRONe; 10-05-2011, 12:52 PM.
                    You looking at the Chair MAN!

                    Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                    Comment

                    • 23
                      yellow
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 66469

                      #535
                      Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                      No one deal is mutually exclusive to the other...

                      The first statement you made could be said in reverse in terms of the owners really, so it only has so much bearing

                      Its not as if this is a 70 -30 take it or leave it deal.. the NBAPA are even too much of a stickler for a couple of more percentage points

                      Wonder how many for the love of the game post game interviews we'll get next season

                      Comment

                      • bigeastbumrush
                        My Momma's Son
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 19245

                        #536
                        Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                        Originally posted by 23
                        Copy of the NBAPA letter to the players after the meeting
                        http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/nba/NBPAletter.pdf
                        The players are more concerned with "looking smart" than actually trying to preserve the league.

                        Comment

                        • aholbert32
                          (aka Alberto)
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 33106

                          #537
                          Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                          Originally posted by da ThRONe
                          I think it's obvious the players have to make most if not all the concessions. The question is how much is too much. This is especially the case when your the only party losing something.

                          Like Red and I have pointed out the owners throw in all these things they don't want to begin with to make it seem like their making consessions. It's an tactic we saw the NFL owners use. I don't see how the owners can give up something they didn't have in the previous deal.

                          OSU88 show me a union that's the employee and product. The NBA rely on their stars unlike all other major American sport.
                          The NFL and the NHL are examples of a union thats the employee and product and they get 48% and 45% respectively.

                          Comment

                          • da ThRONe
                            Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 8528

                            #538
                            Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                            Originally posted by aholbert32
                            The NFL and the NHL are examples of a union thats the employee and product and they get 48% and 45% respectively.
                            Yeah, but they had similiar issues that the NBA players are having. Unfortunately for those unions either lost and/or give in.
                            Last edited by da ThRONe; 10-05-2011, 01:09 PM.
                            You looking at the Chair MAN!

                            Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                            Comment

                            • aholbert32
                              (aka Alberto)
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 33106

                              #539
                              Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                              Originally posted by da ThRONe
                              Yeah, but they had similiar issues that the NBA players are having. Unfortunately for those unions they either lost and/or give in.
                              Whats your point? Those unions lost because they realized the other way (the way the NBA is currently structured) doesnt work. The NBPA has a choice: they can go the NFL way (save season accept a decent deal) or the NHL way (lose a season, receive less money and change the whole system). They keep fooling themselves thinking there is a middle ground because come Monday...there wont be.

                              Comment

                              • da ThRONe
                                Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 8528

                                #540
                                Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

                                Originally posted by aholbert32
                                Whats your point? Those unions lost because they realized the other way (the way the NBA is currently structured) doesnt work. The NBPA has a choice: they can go the NFL way (save season accept a decent deal) or the NHL way (lose a season, receive less money and change the whole system). They keep fooling themselves thinking there is a middle ground because come Monday...there wont be.

                                I have said when this all started ,that unless the players had some super secret plan to start their own league, I see no way they can win. At the same time I can understand the players position that if they never fight they will always lose. I can't imagine being in a so called "negotiation" really getting nothing in return as compared to the previous CBA.
                                You looking at the Chair MAN!

                                Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                                Comment

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