Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

[Pims33]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Amare is going to be chosen over Jefferson 10/10 times. Ginobli is never mentioned among the elite like Wade is. There is a reason for that. So I don't think it's really fair to marginalize the difference between them in an effort to solidify your argument.

And my point in comparing the others is exactly as it appears. An elite athlete versus one that is not...

What separates Rose from Hinrich? Westbrook from Maynor? Is it their skill? Not necessarily. I would say that Hinrich and Maynor are the better shooters, aren't as careless with the ball, and can set up teammates just as well, if not better, than Rose and Westbrook. But they are not the superior athletes that Rose and Westbrook are. This is what gives them that overall separation in terms of ability.

Likewise, Hedo and Roy are not the athletes that LeBron is. But they conceivably have some of the same skills as LeBron does. Plus they are better shooters and have an actual post game. But LeBron is head and shoulders above them. Again, because he is a far superior athlete.

This is not like skill is always worse, equal or better when comparing players, you got different levels of skill. You can argue and say Hedo's skills are the same as LeBron's but LeBron's athleticism is far better, so you got balance that out. Then you look at a guy like Bird, even Dirk, tall and strong but not really that athletic, their ridiculous skill level is what puts them over the top, you can say so much skill they don't even need athleticism. You can't just compare a player with good skills but average athleticism with a player with also good skills but great athleticism, you even went with players better at both levels but oh well...
Like I've said you can't be great with just athleticism though, we're talking about basketball here.

Let me ask you this then, starting a franchise are you going with:
prime Nash or Westbrook
Magic or Rose
Bird or LeBron
Dirk or Amar'e
Duncan or Griffin
Javale or Pau
Love or Ibaka
...
A bit different this way

[TMagic]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

I think what my point about athleticism is being misunderstood. Nowhere have I mentioned that athleticism is MORE important than skill.

Just that I believe it's being undervalued when comparing players today to the past.

Of coarse a player with skill is going to be better than a player without skill and is a freak. That's a given. It would be asinine to think otherwise.

It's the main reason why guys without the best athleticism (ie Dirk, Nash, Magic, Bird) are able to not only be successful, but become the greatest players of their time. And better yet, of all time.

I don't think Jordan was good just because he was athletic. lol. I believe his athleticism turned him from being another great player in the history of the game, to the all time greatest to ever step on the court. And that's the point I'm trying to make. That athleticism gives one great leverage in the sport of basketball. Not that its more important than skill.

So if I were to give a quantitative comparison, using very crude/arbitrary numbers, if most here would say athleticism contributes only 10% to a players overall talent, I'm saying that it contributes to about 30%.

[bamalam]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Agreed, but I'll say the Celtics played much better as a team using screens and stuff to give Bird more of an advantage (whereas I had my high school coach that refused to do that at all, everything was dribble drive, versus our cross-town rivals that was coached by a really old guy that asked me to start for them instead because he liked to run traditional screening offenses)

I admittedly could be wrong because I wasn't fortunate enough to watch much of Larry Bird in my lifetime (I really wish I had because I loved the style of basketball back then), but Bird doesn't seem like the kinda guy that would kill you 1 on 1 the way a guy like Carmelo Anthony can. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that though because I honestly don't know, but that's the way it seems with him.

Haha -i remember Bird was a Notorious trash talker. He would come out onto the court, tell the defense he was going to shoot from spot 'x' on the next play and they wouldnt be able to done anything about it. Throw some expletives in there and then Dude would do it. He could score very easily when he needed to. Team game was better back then. They would t hand it to bird and clear out.

[Rocky]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

I really don't like this argument from either side.

I don't think the players today are better relatively than they were in any other generation, but I don't think they are worse. It's simply a different game. Many here note the rule changes as a reason why current players wouldn't be able to hack it against former players.

Seldom though, do I see the argument to counter that. How would current players, with superior size and athleticism, do if they were able TO handcheck, if the calls were less lenient, and etc. And how would former players be able to defend current players without handchecking and tighter calls. We have 7 footers that handle the ball like guards and shoot threes now. Could Charles Oakley guard a LaMarcus Aldridge without riding him to another direction, or if he couldn't cut him off without using a thigh or elbow?
Could you imagine Luc Longley playing 19 ft. out because of Channing Frye's ability to shoot the three? How defensively dominant would Lebron be (6'8, 260 who can guard lightning quick guards) if he could outmuscle people if they ever got around him?

[AlexBrady]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

I really don't like this argument from either side.

I don't think the players today are better relatively than they were in any other generation, but I don't think they are worse. It's simply a different game. Many here note the rule changes as a reason why current players wouldn't be able to hack it against former players.

Seldom though, do I see the argument to counter that. How would current players, with superior size and athleticism, do if they were able TO handcheck, if the calls were less lenient, and etc. And how would former players be able to defend current players without handchecking and tighter calls. We have 7 footers that handle the ball like guards and shoot threes now. Could Charles Oakley guard a LaMarcus Aldridge without riding him to another direction, or if he couldn't cut him off without using a thigh or elbow?
Could you imagine Luc Longley playing 19 ft. out because of Channing Frye's ability to shoot the three? How defensively dominant would Lebron be (6'8, 260 who can guard lightning quick guards) if he could outmuscle people if they ever got around him?

The speed demons of long ago would have little difficulty. Guys who could move laterally, anticipate, and explode off the floor would still dominate.

LaMarcus Aldridge can't carve out space in the post due to his lightweight physique. Charles Oakley would push him around like he was hollow. Aldridge would have to make all of his turnarounds and fadeaways. Truth be told, jump shooting bigs don't put alot of pressure on defenses, either they make or miss, and they are never in position to get the offensive rebound.

Channing Frye is a streaky jump shooter with a powder puff defensive gameplan. Frye would either make or miss. The real question is, how would Frye push the 320 lb Longley off his spot. Defenses are under the most pressure when the ball is closely positioned to the basket.

LeBron James' defense is only sucessful against slow players (Paul Pierce). His forward leaning stance is routinely toasted by lightning quick scorers (Shawn Marion, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade).

[Dice]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

LeBron James' defense is only sucessful against slow players (Paul Pierce). His forward leaning stance is routinely toasted by lightning quick scorers (Shawn Marion, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade).

Well, to LeBron's credit, he did do a good job against Derrick Rose in the playoffs last year when he was guarding him in the 4th quarter. And you can't get no faster nor explosive as Derrick Rose.

[Zer0xray]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Well, to LeBron's credit, he did do a good job against Derrick Rose in the playoffs last year when he was guarding him in the 4th quarter. And you can't get no faster nor explosive as Derrick Rose.

not hard to guard someone when they cant shoot consistently. lol

[DirtyNeedles]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Best answer I can come up is no, not by a long shot.

More athletic? Maybe. More skilled, no, and it's not even close.

totally agree with this comment. Some of these guys can't even shoot a free throw.

[Outcast]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

not hard to guard someone when they cant shoot consistently. lol

Tell that to all of the plays who thought the same until Rose lighted them up.
Seriously, your argument is just invalid, Rose is a dominant scorer regardless if his defender sags or not.

[rockchisler]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Best answer I can come up is no, not by a long shot.

More athletic? Maybe. More skilled, no, and it's not even close.

My words exactly, Perfect example Lebron, Has all the tools in the world but doesn't play smart all the time. If he had a post up game (Hes uncoachable that's why) he would average 32-33 points a game but no, he likes to take questionable jumpers when unnecessary

[Bad_Intentions]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

not hard to guard someone when they cant shoot consistently. lol

True, Rose just couldn't speed his way around Lebron b/c of his size/speed and he couldn't shoot over him b/c of his size/jumping ability/length. Was a really terrible matchup for D-Rose. Thought Chi could have done some other things like screens and movement to help him out. Also no one on that team was enough of a threat by themselves.


As to the original topic. I think guys are more athletic no doubt. Not so sure about skilled. Just with the naked eye you'd think that guys in other eras were better jump shooters, but I believe Free Throw percentages have actually been fairly close going back to the 70's. Also i'd figure as guys are more athletic now and the defense is a tick better, it's tougher to hit a contested jumper. I don't know though. Kind of a tough question when you factor in everything.

[JBH3]

Most talented and skilled? Most athletic definitely, but talent and skill is much more than a physical presence.

I would say there is less fundamentals in action today, and less basketball intellect....sheer athleticism rules the day.

[ojandpizza]

I don't think it's fair to say any era of basketball is better than this era or that era, with that being said I think todays NBA as a whole has much more talent than past years, not just athletic ability, simply just the way the game as evolved, ball handling, outside shooting, dunking, I hate when people of today's NBA are considered non fundamental, just because the league has basically forced them to play an athletic based game doesn't mean by any means that they couldnt play fundamental if need be, how do you think they got to the NBA? You can't go all the way through pee wee, high school, college being the best of the best with no fundamentals... Some of your comments "players now can't shoot free throws" go watch wilt shoot a free throw lmao... Back to my point, the league is way deeper now, and has been from the mid 80s-now, before that teams only had a few stars, and that's only the top teams on the league, there is more talent across the board now, but, post players today have nothing on 80s 90s era players, it's hard to argue different eras.. Another thing name the last player to try and make it in the league based solely on fundamentals, modeled his game after Larry bird, could shoot, handle, rebound? Adam Morrison, and look where he is? In my opinion he woulda been a decent player in the 70s/80s but not in today's league.. Would Larry Bird dominate the way he did then in today's game? Probably not, would Wade dominate then the way he does now? Probably not, but that's not to say either of them aren't great basketball players, it takes a very rare player to be able to play at their top level in any era, players like Jordan, Shaq, Nash, Kidd, Ewing, Hakeem, Kobe, LeBron, Jerry West, walt Frazier, Tim Duncan, McHale, Karl Malone, Stockton, Kareem, Dominique, Bob McAdoo, Drexler, Yao, AI, David Robinson, payton these are some of the main players of the top of my head who could play in any era and be almost jus as effective as they were in their prime, players who MIGHT to me are Wilt, Bird, Magic, Dwight, D Rose, Dr. J - I think it would be very difficult for bird or magic to play at their level in today's NBA even though I think they are 2 of the nest ever, Wilt to me wouldn't have been much against the great big me of the 80s 90s due to lack of post moves and of course his size wouldn't be overpowering like when he played, Dwight same as wilt, he couldn't play against people as strong as him in a physical NBA without post moves, D Rose now dominates off speed alone, and Dr. J never had the jumpshot to me to dominate in any era past when he did play

[AlexBrady]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

I don't think it's fair to say any era of basketball is better than this era or that era, with that being said I think todays NBA as a whole has much more talent than past years, not just athletic ability, simply just the way the game as evolved, ball handling, outside shooting, dunking, I hate when people of today's NBA are considered non fundamental, just because the league has basically forced them to play an athletic based game doesn't mean by any means that they couldnt play fundamental if need be, how do you think they got to the NBA? You can't go all the way through pee wee, high school, college being the best of the best with no fundamentals... Some of your comments "players now can't shoot free throws" go watch wilt shoot a free throw lmao... Back to my point, the league is way deeper now, and has been from the mid 80s-now, before that teams only had a few stars, and that's only the top teams on the league, there is more talent across the board now, but, post players today have nothing on 80s 90s era players, it's hard to argue different eras.. Another thing name the last player to try and make it in the league based solely on fundamentals, modeled his game after Larry bird, could shoot, handle, rebound? Adam Morrison, and look where he is? In my opinion he woulda been a decent player in the 70s/80s but not in today's league.. Would Larry Bird dominate the way he did then in today's game? Probably not, would Wade dominate then the way he does now? Probably not, but that's not to say either of them aren't great basketball players, it takes a very rare player to be able to play at their top level in any era, players like Jordan, Shaq, Nash, Kidd, Ewing, Hakeem, Kobe, LeBron, Jerry West, walt Frazier, Tim Duncan, McHale, Karl Malone, Stockton, Kareem, Dominique, Bob McAdoo, Drexler, Yao, AI, David Robinson, payton these are some of the main players of the top of my head who could play in any era and be almost jus as effective as they were in their prime, players who MIGHT to me are Wilt, Bird, Magic, Dwight, D Rose, Dr. J - I think it would be very difficult for bird or magic to play at their level in today's NBA even though I think they are 2 of the nest ever, Wilt to me wouldn't have been much against the great big me of the 80s 90s due to lack of post moves and of course his size wouldn't be overpowering like when he played, Dwight same as wilt, he couldn't play against people as strong as him in a physical NBA without post moves, D Rose now dominates off speed alone, and Dr. J never had the jumpshot to me to dominate in any era past when he did play

I would have to disagree with almost all of your points. Ball handling, outside shooting, dunking, is whats wrong with today's players. The players are absolutely mesmerized by the ball and only come to life when they have the rock or are in close proximity to it.

In truth, todays players have no interest in fundamental basketball when power dunks, fancy dribbles, and acrobatic layups dominate the sports shows. They have little idea/interest in how to set a solid screen, use a screen, box out, assume a proper defensive stance, time a lane sprint, exhibit good footwork, make simple reverse passes, ect. They absolutely do go through high school and college based mostly on their talent. AAU Basketball is a wild guard-driven circus.

Wilt was an awful free throw shooter. Before the mid 80s, teams only had a few stars? The 70s feautured the Hondo/Cowens Celtics, West/Wilt Lakers, Frazier/Lucas/DeBusschere Knicks, Russell/Thurmond Warriors, Hudson/Bellamy Hawks, Oscar/Kareem/Dandridge Bucks, Love/Walker Bulls, Haywood/Wilkens Sonics, Hawkins/Van Arsdale Suns, and Lanier/Bing Pistons. Quite a few teams were 'star gazing'.

Post players "have nothing" on the bigs of yester-year because they don't have the appetite to learn the advanced footwork needed to excel. The league also wants to see fast-paced guard-dominated games and big lumbering centers are not sexy enough to push the meter.

Adam Morrison never had the game to even approach Larry Bird. Morrison couldn't rebound or play with any strength whatsoever. His defensive anticipation was awful and he had a 5th grader patty-cake handle. The typical modern day player who only comes to life when he has the ball. Morrison would have been sent to the hospital because he was so physically weak if he played in the violent game of the 60s, 70s, 80s, and early 90s.

Larry Bird would score about 30 points a game and fill his statline with other admirable numbers if he played today. Defenders couldn't bump him on his cuts or horse him on his post ups like they did way back when.

Magic would totally destroy today's league. He was 6'9 235 and could penetrate at will (and he would with no hand-checking) and post up whoever he pleased. Indeed, Magic could go wherever he wanted and throw whatever pass he had to. His screens and determined cuts would also be devestating.

Wilt was a freak of nature and stood 7'1 310 lbs. The only center that had more physical strength was Shaq. Wilt had three moves, all unstoppable. The fingeroll, the putback, and the fade-a-way from the left box (the bank was usually open). Nobody in today's game has the stuff to control him. Wilt would also set monster screens on today's players and he would turn every team's glass into a volleyball game.

Julius Erving was irresistible in a broken field and would still be the best finisher of all time. He was incredibly creative at the basket, a good passer, and he could rebound like a big man. At his best, he could also make aggressive off ball cuts. He would have little trouble dominating today's game.

[Dice]

Re: Are The Current Generation Of NBA Players The Most Talented/Skilled We've Seen?

Is it even legal to use Adam Morrison and Larry Bird in the same sentence? Are you kidding me? Bird has more basketball instinct in his pinky than in Morrison's whole body.