The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

[Chairman7w]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

lol @ dude naming three of the quickest guards in the past 20 years of basketball, and using that as an indictment against a 38 year old man.

LOL!! Okay, that's a fair point. I'm laughing myself at that one. (Chairman raises a toast to hunter's claim) Well played, Sir.

[SpSoloSr]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

I think a key differential some of you guys might be mixing up is athleticism and skill set.

Kobe's athleticism, just like everyone before and after him, has definitely started to dwindle. Yet, his skill set is phenomenal... His footwork and post game is tops in the league (bigmen included), his mid range game is still highly respectable because he is a threat to shoot and drive, and his ability to be a leader has grown year after year (IMO). As long as he continues to try to compensate as a player, much like MJ, Kareem, Karl Malone, and many other greats who lost their athleticism as they got older, he will probably average 20 into retirement... also, you gotta remember, Kobe is tied for the most 3's in a game (12) with Donyell Marshall (when's the last time you heard that name?). Like J-Kidd, he might stand outside and cast 3's for the rest of his career.

I think what everyone saw last year in evaluating Kobe's struggles were an accumulation of several factors not all related towards his age. That team as a whole had problems up and down the line up and because Kobe is the dynamic figure on that team, a lot it was looked upon as him not being able to carry the load like before, when it actually, whether you love him or hate him, we've all just be spoiled and expect him to just "turn it on" at any moment.

[mambafan420]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

1. Kobe ain't MJ.
2. Kobe's 33 now. He's not gonna play another 7 years, much less average 20 ppg.

Well, it's interesting that you bring up those two points.

Because yes:

1. "Kobe ain't MJ." But once he gets his sixth ring, and that's most likely going to happen within the next couple of seasons, barring any unforeseen phenomena, he will arguably be better than MJ, according to a number of analysts.
2. "Kobe's 33 now. He's not gonna play another 7 years, much less average 20 ppg." Great players learn to adapt their game to their body's ability, not the other way around. Kobe started as a high flyer, evolved in to a high percentage shooter, and is now a consistent post threat. As long as he has pieces around him and not some bull**** roster like the 2007-08 Lakers squad (where he actually HAD to score 81 points for them to win), Kobe will continue to average 25, 5, and 5 or more. And for someone who loves and lives for the game as much as Bryant, playing basketball and winning championships is the only goal. I don't see him giving up his life's goal at 40.




There's a reason that the "Jordan vs. Kobe" conversation even exists -- because there is reason for comparison. Bryant has all the merits and honors (aside from the single MVP trophy vs. MJ's 6 and 5 rings as opposed to Jordan's 6) to position him as a legitimate contender for the title "best of all time." Fact is, Kobe came later than Jordan. No matter what Kobe does or how much better he may play in his advanced age than Jordan did in his, "Jordan did it first." The debate is always gonna come down to personal opinion, since stats don''t really tell the whole story.

[wwharton]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

Well, it's interesting that you bring up those two points.

Because yes:

1. "Kobe ain't MJ." But once he gets his sixth ring, and that's most likely going to happen within the next couple of seasons, barring any unforeseen phenomena, he will arguably be better than MJ, according to a number of analysts.
2. "Kobe's 33 now. He's not gonna play another 7 years, much less average 20 ppg." Great players learn to adapt their game to their body's ability, not the other way around. Kobe started as a high flyer, evolved in to a high percentage shooter, and is now a consistent post threat. As long as he has pieces around him and not some bull**** roster like the 2007-08 Lakers squad (where he actually HAD to score 81 points for them to win), Kobe will continue to average 25, 5, and 5 or more. And for someone who loves and lives for the game as much as Bryant, playing basketball and winning championships is the only goal. I don't see him giving up his life's goal at 40.




There's a reason that the "Jordan vs. Kobe" conversation even exists -- because there is reason for comparison. Bryant has all the merits and honors (aside from the single MVP trophy vs. MJ's 6 and 5 rings as opposed to Jordan's 6) to position him as a legitimate contender for the title "best of all time." Fact is, Kobe came later than Jordan. No matter what Kobe does or how much better he may play in his advanced age than Jordan did in his, "Jordan did it first." The debate is always gonna come down to personal opinion, since stats don''t really tell the whole story.

No.

And if you listen to those analysts, that's on you. Jordan didn't just do it first, he did more, better, and without as much error... that last one is impossible for Kobe to match. Getting another ring doesn't magically make a difference... or else both Kobe and Jordan would be looking up to Bill Russell in the debate.

[The15thunter]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

Well, it's interesting that you bring up those two points.

Because yes:

1. "Kobe ain't MJ." But once he gets his sixth ring, and that's most likely going to happen within the next couple of seasons, barring any unforeseen phenomena, he will arguably be better than MJ, according to a number of analysts.
2. "Kobe's 33 now. He's not gonna play another 7 years, much less average 20 ppg." Great players learn to adapt their game to their body's ability, not the other way around. Kobe started as a high flyer, evolved in to a high percentage shooter, and is now a consistent post threat. As long as he has pieces around him and not some bull**** roster like the 2007-08 Lakers squad (where he actually HAD to score 81 points for them to win), Kobe will continue to average 25, 5, and 5 or more. And for someone who loves and lives for the game as much as Bryant, playing basketball and winning championships is the only goal. I don't see him giving up his life's goal at 40.




There's a reason that the "Jordan vs. Kobe" conversation even exists -- because there is reason for comparison. Bryant has all the merits and honors (aside from the single MVP trophy vs. MJ's 6 and 5 rings as opposed to Jordan's 6) to position him as a legitimate contender for the title "best of all time." Fact is, Kobe came later than Jordan. No matter what Kobe does or how much better he may play in his advanced age than Jordan did in his, "Jordan did it first." The debate is always gonna come down to personal opinion, since stats don''t really tell the whole story.

i am the biggest kobe bryant fan there is. however, michael jordan is better than him. there is nothing kobe can accomplish that will change that because it is a fact. it doesn't matter if kobe came first and michael did it after him, michael would be better. it's undeniable.

[mambafan420]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

i am the biggest kobe bryant fan there is. however, michael jordan is better than him. there is nothing kobe can accomplish that will change that because it is a fact. it doesn't matter if kobe came first and michael did it after him, michael would be better. it's undeniable.

This argument is literally going to go back and forth, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. The two players never played each other in their primes, so we aren't going to ever know who's better. Talk about the numbers and awards all day, but there is no legitimate evidence to prove that MJ is better than Kobe, or even Vice-versa for that matter. But to say that MJ is just in another class from Kobe altogether is blasphemy.

[The15thunter]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

This argument is literally going to go back and forth, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. The two players never played each other in their primes, so we aren't going to ever know who's better. Talk about the numbers and awards all day, but there is no legitimate evidence to prove that MJ is better than Kobe, or even Vice-versa for that matter. But to say that MJ is just in another class from Kobe altogether is blasphemy.

wait, i'm confused. you said there is no legitimate evidence, but aren't the awards, statistics and the opinions of those with intense, intimate knowledge of both men the very evidence you reference?

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

This argument is literally going to go back and forth, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. The two players never played each other in their primes, so we aren't going to ever know who's better. Talk about the numbers and awards all day, but there is no legitimate evidence to prove that MJ is better than Kobe, or even Vice-versa for that matter. But to say that MJ is just in another class from Kobe altogether is blasphemy.

If you really believe that then more power to you. Most every reliable source we have says otherwise. Some of that is KB's fault, some of it isn't. In the end he's at least top 8 all-time go to along with a host of other achievements. That ain't bad.

[23]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

Well, it's interesting that you bring up those two points.

Because yes:

1. "Kobe ain't MJ." But once he gets his sixth ring, and that's most likely going to happen within the next couple of seasons, barring any unforeseen phenomena, he will arguably be better than MJ, according to a number of analysts.
2. "Kobe's 33 now. He's not gonna play another 7 years, much less average 20 ppg." Great players learn to adapt their game to their body's ability, not the other way around. Kobe started as a high flyer, evolved in to a high percentage shooter, and is now a consistent post threat. As long as he has pieces around him and not some bull**** roster like the 2007-08 Lakers squad (where he actually HAD to score 81 points for them to win), Kobe will continue to average 25, 5, and 5 or more. And for someone who loves and lives for the game as much as Bryant, playing basketball and winning championships is the only goal. I don't see him giving up his life's goal at 40.




There's a reason that the "Jordan vs. Kobe" conversation even exists -- because there is reason for comparison. Bryant has all the merits and honors (aside from the single MVP trophy vs. MJ's 6 and 5 rings as opposed to Jordan's 6) to position him as a legitimate contender for the title "best of all time." Fact is, Kobe came later than Jordan. No matter what Kobe does or how much better he may play in his advanced age than Jordan did in his, "Jordan did it first." The debate is always gonna come down to personal opinion, since stats don''t really tell the whole story.

Every single year we get this crap in the forums

You couldnt make it past one post without this nonesense... really?

[mambafan420]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

wait, i'm confused. you said there is no legitimate evidence, but aren't the awards, statistics and the opinions of those with intense, intimate knowledge of both men the very evidence you reference?

Pardon the confusion, I caught myself slipping there a little bit. I'm a lover of basketball and definitely consider MJ a legend, and as of now, he is obviously the best player of all time. The point that i'm trying to make is that once Kobe has retired and we look back at the legacy he left as a player (including but not limited to: play style, technical ability, athleticism, and development of player over the span of his career) it's going to be comparable to that of MJ.

Furthermore, there are analysts on both sides of this argument, so my referencing of them might have been a little misplaced. Excuse me for that.

But to prevent from any more quarreling, I'll concede this match-up and admit that yes, at this point in time, Michael Jordan is the best player ever. We're all friends here

[wwharton]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

This argument is literally going to go back and forth, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. The two players never played each other in their primes, so we aren't going to ever know who's better. Talk about the numbers and awards all day, but there is no legitimate evidence to prove that MJ is better than Kobe, or even Vice-versa for that matter. But to say that MJ is just in another class from Kobe altogether is blasphemy.

Pardon the confusion, I caught myself slipping there a little bit. I'm a lover of basketball and definitely consider MJ a legend, and as of now, he is obviously the best player of all time. The point that i'm trying to make is that once Kobe has retired and we look back at the legacy he left as a player (including but not limited to: play style, technical ability, athleticism, and development of player over the span of his career) it's going to be comparable to that of MJ.

Furthermore, there are analysts on both sides of this argument, so my referencing of them might have been a little misplaced. Excuse me for that.

But to prevent from any more quarreling, I'll concede this match-up and admit that yes, at this point in time, Michael Jordan is the best player ever. We're all friends here

Ok, mambafan... 420, we'll just have to agree to disagree, lol. Though your judgement may be a bit clouded.

You know it makes more sense to just appreciate Kobe for what he is and has been. He's had an amazing NBA career, and his share of rings, awards and accomplishments all to his own. He's not the best ever and never will be, and comparing him to the best just paints him in a bad light. He does pale in comparison to MJ, but he shines in comparison to 99% of everybody else. That should be good enough.

[mambafan420]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

Ok, mambafan... 420, we'll just have to agree to disagree, lol. Though your judgement may be a bit clouded.

You know it makes more sense to just appreciate Kobe for what he is and has been. He's had an amazing NBA career, and his share of rings, awards and accomplishments all to his own. He's not the best ever and never will be, and comparing him to the best just paints him in a bad light. He does pale in comparison to MJ, but he shines in comparison to 99% of everybody else. That should be good enough.

Well, "wwharton" I was trying to refrain from being a dick, but it takes one to talk to one. So please, enlighten me, and give me some legitimate reasoning as to how Kobe Bryant, the player of the decade "pales" in comparison to Michael Jordan. "Pales" is a strong word.

[Drewski]

Let's just play some basketball and talk about Kobe in legacies and all times after he's retired.

In the meantime, if there ever was a time where Kobe could make a career stand, now is ripe. Make that 6th ring count against all odds #24

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[RedSceptile]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

By player of the decade I think you misspelt Tim Duncan.

[WhyNotD4Mvp]

Re: The evaluation of Kobe Bryant

Kobe is Kobe. He's not as much as a problem as he use to be to opposing teams, those knees man its those knees ask B.Roy, it aint the same after that.