NBA Off Topic

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: NBA Off Topic

You really think he looked on the schedule...saw "Suns"...and his eyes turned blood red looking for revenge?

He had a good game...a really good game. But post game he talks about being ranked #7 in the league and this story about the Suns and their "history".

Okay Kobe.

Not at all. 16 years in the league, I doubt he ever looks at the schedule and circles any particular game. Doesn't mean for one second that he doesn't hate the Suns.

I'm actually with you, I don't think there's any truth to the article that he's got some sort of beef with Steve Nash that he's directing big games at him or anything crazy like that. That being said, Scoob asked what reason he would have to go at Nash. I simply answered his question. Kobe is a dickhead, let's not sit here and try to pretend like the dude isn't. By most accounts of people that know him, how he carries himself and so on, dude is an *******, just like Jordan. It wasn't 'just any reason to call the guy a dickhead.' I was simply answering a question and while I don't think the article is correct, it sure as hell wouldn't surprise me if it was, because Kobe is an ******* and that would fit right in with someone that is considered an *******.

Right. But I don't see the point in calling guys out for something they've yet to do. Feels unnecessary to call anyone out for an article that simply suggests with no evidence, that somehow Bryant hates Steve Nash.

[TMagic]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Hey Guys, remember back when we use to have these long discussions comparing Westrbrook and Rose?

Let's not do that again.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Hey Guys, remember back when we use to have these long discussions comparing Westrbrook and Rose?

Let's not do that again.

Oh you know we're gonna.

[The Big Squeezy]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Yao and that panda....... that's gonna haunt my dreams.

[TMagic]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Oh you know we're gonna.

LOL. I know it man.

But there really shouldn't be any debate. Sure they both have similar physical gifts and attack the rim in a similar fashion. But that's the end of the discussion.

Rose is far superior upstairs. I think I've watched about 4 games from each this year, and as far as basketball IQ is concerned, Rose is far superior and I don't know if Westbrook will ever catch up.

Rose's decision making is better, he sets up teammates better, he takes smarter shots, he knows when to be aggressive and when to pull back, he's a better game mananger, and he just has that something where you know you can count on him to step up right when the team needs him to.

None of those things describes Westbrook. lol

[Boltman]

Re: NBA Off Topic

LOL. I know it man.

But there really shouldn't be any debate. Sure they both have similar physical gifts and attack the rim in a similar fashion. But that's the end of the discussion.

Rose is far superior upstairs. I think I've watched about 4 games from each this year, and as far as basketball IQ is concerned, Rose is far superior and I don't know if Westbrook will ever catch up.

Rose's decision making is better, he sets up teammates better, he takes smarter shots, he knows when to be aggressive and when to pull back, he's a better game mananger, and he just has that something where you know you can count on him to step up right when the team needs him to.

None of those things describes Westbrook. lol

Basketball IQ aside...

Who has the better physical tools? Who is more athletic?

I'm not saying Westbrook is better in that capacity, I'm merely asking.

Hands down I agree with your assessment of the two, Rose is by far the better to me.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Off Topic

The feeling is so ****ing mutual.

Too bad I hated those purple and gold mother****ers wellllllll before the most insecure superstar in sports history ever stepped foot on the court.

But thank you Kobe, for taking it to a whole new level in 1996. Your contributions do not go unnoticed.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Sports history? I don't think so, but he's probably in the conversation.

Also insecure in what aspects, just wondering. Or name examples.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Off Topic

I'm not going to sit here and name every single example of his insecurity. I'd forget way too much. It goes back to discussions we've had here over the course of his career.

His personality is so insecure. So are his fans. They feed off each other. Instead of knowing he's the best basketball player in the world, he acts like he's some walk-on trying to prove himself. He's never belonged. I remember a SLAM article a few years ago that spoke about how he always tries to act like someone else. Going onto the scorers table and doing the Jordan thing, etc. When you have no identity, it hurts you personally.

I think Kobe is a wreck emotionally. It shows.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Sports history? I don't think so, but he's probably in the conversation.

Also insecure in what aspects, just wondering. Or name examples.

Found an e-mail I composed to a friend who wondered why I thought Kobe was so fake and insecure, with stuff from OS.

Whenever Kobe does something, whether it's kneeling on one leg, pumping his fist and pointing at Gasol, or at the Olympics when he fake pulled pistols out, blew out the smoke and put them back in their imaginary holster, it just feels super fake.

So many things he says feel scripted. Does he watch game film of all time greats to manipulate moves or manipulate interviews? There's a reason so many of his former teammates dislike him. Was it because he moved around a lot as a child? Did Jelly Bean not give him enough attention? Did he feel secluded and alone when he moved away to Italy, so he started acting like this? I feel like very few people have seen the real Kobe Bryant, what we see is him trying to form this ridiculous image he thinks is cool. Then we have a bunch of Kobe Bryant fans running around arenas across America acting the same way, popping their shirts out, fist pumping, finger pointing, pistol shooting. Stop.


Maybe I'm way off here, but so many things this guy does seem fake and corny and forced. There's not really any other player in the league that seems as fake as Kobe does. I liked Kobe when he first came into the league, but he lost his appeal as soon as I started seeing him act the way he does.

That's why no one on his current team has a strong personality, or strong enough to call him out on his fakeness. His GM surrounded him with a group of guys that are a combination of good talent-wise and quiet or neutral personality-wise. Ron Artest may be the exception, but I don't really remember him getting upset with teammates. It was more of when the game was on the court that he seemed so nuts.


Just my two cents on Kobe. I don't think he has an ounce of genuine personality in his body. I would hate being around him and am not surprised to hear why so many in the league have disliked him. He wants to win, not just to be a winner, but to be remembered as "the Black Mamba, the deadliest player in Finals history." He's scowling and yelling his way into a memory I hope most people forget.


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Damn, I think you just read my mind on Kobe too. To me he comes off as so fake and trying to fit in. At times it's like he's almost acting.

Just a few days ago there was this ESPN show that was on following the Lakers through this season. I think it was called "The Association". It started off showing the Lakers winning the title last year and what do I see? Kobe jacking MJ's mid-air fist pum

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Slam Article from 2004:

*The Enigma: Kobe Bryant*

/Words Ryan Jones/

“I’m not sure if anyone really understands Kobe Bryant. In fact, I’m not even sure if Kobe Bryant really understands Kobe Bryant.”

I’m cribbing those words from Russ, our editor in chief, because I can’t think of a more succinct way to make this point. Those were the first two sentences of Russ’ editor’s letter back in SLAM 66—you remember the cover, Kobe in the black Rewind joint, golden triplets lined up in front of him. You might remember the words inside. It was a Q&A, mostly, and I was feeling myself. I thought I asked some pretty good questions, and, based on his responses, I thought maybe I had Kobe figured out. I’ve since realized that the only thing I know about Kobe Bryant is that I don’t really know Kobe Bryant at all. In that, at least, I’m not alone.

Kobe Bryant—The Enigma. All signs have pointed to our collective inability to really understand this cat for a long, long time, and the events of the past nine or so months have only reinforced this reality. But this is not about a sexual assault case; this is bigger and broader and has much less to do with one isolated incident than it does with the scope of a man’s life as we know it. Even if whatever allegedly happened in that Colorado hotel room last summer had never happened in the first place, Kobe would still be one of the most strangely compelling figures in the history of the game. The only difference now is that a lot more people are paying attention.

From the start, his story was almost completely unique. Son of an NBA player. Grew up in Italy. Took friggin’ Brandy to the prom. And he was cocky—likeably so at first, but for a lot of folks (fans, coaches, Shaq) that unfadeable confidence grew real old real quick. All of which seemed to make him that much cockier. It wasn’t so much that he expected greatness of himself, but that he seemed to think it was destined. How he just knew it was coming. Mostly, though, it was how he went about it all, and how it never quite looked…authentic. Like he was always trying. Trying to be something other than who—or what—he was.

So who is Kobe? Essentially, he’s a foreigner, an immigrant not only to this country, but to the culture that has come to define the game. The fact that he has tried so hard to embrace that culture just makes it that much more obvious that he wasn’t born to it. That week-long run of throwbacks during the ’02 Finals? Did it ever seem natural? No. It came off as forced, and a lot of us saw it as such. Just like all those years he seemed to be channeling Jordan, in voice and manner and game. Or when he tried to rap. Or when he dropped “mother****ers” all over my interview with him back in Ish 66. Or when, without warning, he got all tatted up last fall.

Throughout, SLAM has generally given Kobe the benefit of the doubt. We had nothing but love for his game (and really, anyone calling themselves a basketball fan had to feel the same), and we always had positive experiences with him in person. Of course, we heard things. Rumors from friends in the sneaker industry, from agents, from folks in the League office, whispers about ego and attitude. About a young man who didn’t have enough of the right people around him, who only seemed to know what he really wanted when he was on the basketball court.

It’s 2004. Kobe Bryant is 25 years old. He’s got three championship rings and Hall of Fame averages, and he could easily play another 10 years. Don’t forget that. Don’t think that, health-permitting, he couldn’t manage two or three more rings and another 15,000 points before he’s done. Don’t be shocked if he ends up on the cover of our 20th Anniversary issue with the line “Just Like Mike. Only Better,” only this time we’ll be right. He might be a Sun by then, or a Clipper or Grizzly or (irony of ironies) a Charlotte Bobcat. Doesn’t matter. Fact is, he’s been saying for years he wants to be the greatest of all time, and as of right now, his goals, all of them, are still attainable.

Well, all except for one. He still wants to look like he’s not trying. Like he belongs. He wants the acceptance, the embrace. He tried to tell us it didn’t matter, but we’re pretty sure it does. And at this point, even for Kobe Bryant, that might be too much to ask.

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It kind of makes you wonder if there's any correlation between their ability and their complete lack of social skills. Like they realize they don't really fit in society, so they make up for it by devoting themselves to their sports, where they can be appreciated and their actions are more acceptable. Everybody loves a winner.

I remember how down people were on Kobe after Shaq left and after the Colorado incident. Once he started winning again, everyone seemed to move that to the back and focus on Kobe's on-court accomplishments, which is fine. It's just funny how society has always done that. If you lose, then you're put under a microscope. If you win, then we let a lot of things slide. What's frustrating about that is people are emulating and applauding Kobe for his fakeness and forced personality since he's been winning, which makes it that much easier to dislike the Lakers. Kobe is a great player, I'm not hating on his game, or the ridiculous shots he's been making the entire playoffs. Just as a person, from what I've seen in interviews, his actions on the court, the articles I've read about him (spot on article by Ryan Jones from Slam), he tries too hard and he's transparent. He lacks the humanity a lot of other players in similar situations give off. Maybe they're just better at selling their image, but I think otherwise.

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I think the correlation is with their insane drive to be better at what they do and their lack of social skills. This can be the case in any field that doesn't directly involve being social. Kobe has an interesting background too, bouncing around so much around the world, and then entering the league at such an early age. I think it'd be a huge stretch to compare him to Michael Jackson, but he was another that didn't have a conventional childhood and family life, and who was a household name at a young age.

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Jordan is a huge douche from what I've heard. I think the internet era has revealed that. Before then, it was much easier for a player to control his image.

The thing Jordan had going for him was that at the time it seemed like he was cool and laid-back but also wanted to win. He had charisma and it was believable. In fact, it was so cool and believable that Kobe Bryant tries to copy it in his own way, which hasn't worked. Through it all though, it felt genuine and Jordan had his own style and way about him that didn't feel forced. It was the bad stuff going on behind the scene that didn't get out, but the image he portrayed did feel like part of his personality.

That Hall of Fame speech Jordan gave was one of the most embarrassing things I've seen.

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Well... there's the rape case, the destroying of the Shaq Lakers, the running Phil Jackson/Malone/Shaq out of town, the meltdown against the Pistons, the demand to have Bynum traded, the "I'm not shooting" spectacle he put on a few playoffs ago, and more recently it's the Kobe tough-guy, point fingers, pump fists, act focused show. The whole time he's trying to build this image of basketball badass and it comes across as something else entirely, at least to many of us.

There's plenty of reasons to dislike the guy.

In the Internet Age, with personable, likeable players like Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade, Delonte West, Dwight Howard... the off-the-court stuff matters to me. I'll root for guys because I like their game or I like their personalities. If you want to just look at a guy's game and judge him on that, fine. But I think it's fair to say that a lot of us here are into the NBA culture, the interactions between fans, athletes and teams, and it's interesting to us to know about the players on a level other than the game. If it bothers you so much to talk about a player and their reputation, I'm sorry.

[BlueNGold]

Re: NBA Off Topic

I always think back to that SLAM article when the topic of Kobe's personality/fakeness comes up. So spot on.

I think the main reason he is like he is though is because he was always the odd kid out. He grew up in Italy and was apparently bullied a lot, so he used basketball as a way to get back at them. There was some book I read about him in school that touched on that.

[1Rose]

Re: NBA Off Topic

That was always one of my biggest pet peeves, and that is his blatant copying of everything Jordan. The table thing, the fist pump, the tongue, etc. It's so obnoxious. One of the many reasons I can't stand him. I respect him as a player, but be yourself, because no matter how hard you try or how many mannerisms you copy, you will never be Jordan.

Matrix, you pretty much nailed it on the head.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: NBA Off Topic

Thought it was eerie how much his demeanor/mannerisms reminded me of Jordan. It is what it is though and whatever works for the man.

[Rexis]

Re: NBA Off Topic



Chris Broussard's surprise team of the season.

[Boltman]

Re: NBA Off Topic

That was always one of my biggest pet peeves, and that is his blatant copying of everything Jordan. The table thing, the fist pump, the tongue, etc. It's so obnoxious. One of the many reasons I can't stand him. I respect him as a player, but be yourself, because no matter how hard you try or how many mannerisms you copy, you will never be Jordan.

Matrix, you pretty much nailed it on the head.

I honestly never read slam so a lot of that is definitely new & intriguing into his mindset (to me).

The article has quite a bit of insight and maybe the answer to the part you wrote that I bolded is simply...

He doesn't know how?

Like it suggests, maybe he is a social introvert and his growing up all over the world has much to do with that.

I definitely don't hate the guy. Being a Laker and accomplishing all he has (not alone obviously, much of that is because of his teammates) I do root for him. But not on a personal level or anything, he is simply a Laker that is also a great player. That is what I root for, all are more than welcomed & entitled to hate him all you wish.