Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

[roadman]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

The truth is, that whenever the ball is carried into the paint, the interior defense is compromised. The onus is on the perimeter defenders to contain the ball (Jennings and Ellis).

Actually, Skiles is currently happy about the perimeter D of the Bucks. If it happens to collapse, they have a ton of shot blockers this year to defend the paint.

Probably part of the reason why they went out and obtained shot blockers, because historically, Jennings and Monta are not good defenders, but Jennings has been working at it in the off season.

[ojandpizza]

Ellis doesn't have to be Magic or Stock, but he must make quicker decisions with the ball. When he catches it, the ball sticks and the defense loads up. Simple wing passes and post feeds breed five man concepts. Move the ball Monta!

How about running some off ball patterns? The kind that Ray Allen runs. Curls, fades, and baseline sprints. These sharp off ball cuts confuse the defense and force the opposing bigs to make quick (usually wrong) decisions.
On the defensive end, he must combat screens more aggressively, refrain from turning his head, improve his posture, and halve his rotations.

As it is, Monta is either a spectator when he doesn't have the ball or else he is making a spectator of his teammates when he has the ball. To work well in tandem with Jennings, he must broaden the scope of his game.

The truth is, that whenever the ball is carried into the paint, the interior defense is compromised. The onus is on the perimeter defenders to contain the ball (Jennings and Ellis).

While most of what you said about Ellis is true the same thing about Wade and never gets hate thrown his way. The Heat are my team, I watched the majority of all their games this past season and every one of their playoff games.

When the ball is reversed to Wade, he never takes the open jumper, and he never swings the ball. By doing neither one of the top offenses in the league immediately loses all ball movement and becomes stagnant. He waits for the defender and pump fakes probably 8/10 times he touches the ball, even is he's wide open..

Now I know Wade is on a whole other level in comparison to his all around game compared to Ellis. But if he isn't going to take faults for doing the same thing Ellis does, I don't see why Ellis deserves the hate.

I will say that Wade does move much better without the ball though.

[IowaAJ]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

Basically he can score not efficiently on 20 plus shots and doesn't play defense. He's a good player but he's not top 5 for me. Scoring wise yes nothing else.

[ojandpizza]

If Monta Ellis is a Top 5 SG, then that says more about the lack of elite players at that position than it does about Monta's game, especially if Joe Johnson and D-Wade are top 3 SG as well.

Really Wade shouldn't be a top 3 SG of an NBA era? He has a scoring title, 2 rings, and a finals MVP. Plays both ends of the court and plays very well in the big moments of big games..He's no slouch!

[ojandpizza]

Basically he can score not efficiently on 20 plus shots and doesn't play defense. He's a good player but he's not top 5 for me. Scoring wise yes nothing else.

Who are your top 5 SG in the league?

[beast10]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

Because he doesn't do anything ... Kobe led his team to Championships and he's considered "Selfish" but Monta doesn't do anything but score and leads to nothing.

[ehh]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

I would need to see him in a few playoff series before I developed a real opinion on him. He's a great scorer in the regular season, which doesn't mean much in my book.

[ojandpizza]

Because he doesn't do anything ... Kobe led his team to Championships and he's considered "Selfish" but Monta doesn't do anything but score and leads to nothing.

Nobody here was trying to say he was a better player than Kobe lol

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

I feel like Ellis either is a different player in Milwaukee or people never really paid much attention to Ellis. Our ball movement was amazing last season once we got Ellis and he hustled his *** off on both ends of the floor for the most part. Diving for loose balls, curling off screens, attacking the hoop, dishing to open teammates, etc. He didn't shoot that great, but he played very well and he and Jennings seemed like a great fit.

[Jukeman]

To keep it simple and basic. (by using stats to justify whats been already said)

Monta is an offensive player and he never cracked over a 20 PER...

Thats not good being that the formula favors offense..

He pretty much has the same career PER as Rondo.

Good for Rondo.

But

Bad for Monta.


-Juke

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

He's a top guard but not a top player. I don't know what else to say about him that hasn't been said.

With that said, I think he's a great third wheel and can play on a championship team. Not sure you want him to be your best or second best player.

[beast10]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

Nobody here was trying to say he was a better player than Kobe lol

I'm not comparing them. I'm saying they're the same style of players and if Kobe never did anything in LA he would be on the same level as Ellis

[TajDeni]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

prolly only 10% of the players in the league could be classified as all around players, 90% of the players have atleast 1 glaring weakness. some players cant shoot or score and some players cant defend or whatever it might be.

Monte is a sniper. if you know that about him going in then whats the
problem. the key is recognising who your lead guy is, if you want him to be your lead guy or not then building the team around what he's not good at doing, so he can excell at what he is good at doing.

if he cant defend then surround him with players that are defensive minded. thus even if he still is not a great defender his effort will atleast be improved by osmosis. if he cant pass then surround him with a player who can so that he can just worry about finishing plays and not setting plays up for players.

the 6ers made it to the championship and were relevent for yrs simply by surrounding A.I. with players that could either do what he couldnt or didnt want to do. the Ravens won a superbowl, with T.Dilfer. the 9ers are trying to win now with A.Smith. and the bucks should use the same formula if Monte is their guy. not that it will necessarily equal success for the bucks but it is a proven formula.

after Kobe, Wade, and Manu; Monte is as cold as any SG in the league. funny i dont see many ppl hating on the players who cant score, just if you cant play defense it seems.

i agree he'd be perfect on team built like the bulls or as the 6th man on a championship caliber team. if put into the right situation theres alot of value to be had in Monte.

plus he's undersized playing against bigger players

seriously why doesnt anyone ever complains about the guys who cant score for not being all around players? seems to me only the guys who main calling card is scoring get called out for not being all around players when majority of the players in the league could be classified as 1 dimentional?

[Jukeman]

prolly only 10% of the players in the league could be classified as all around players, 90% of the players have atleast 1 glaring weakness. some players cant shoot or score and some players cant defend or whatever it might be.

Monte is a sniper. if you know that about him going in then whats the
problem. the key is recognising who your lead guy is, if you want him to be your lead guy or not then building the team around what he's not good at doing, so he can excell at what he is good at doing.

if he cant defend then surround him with players that are defensive minded. thus even if he still is not a great defender his effort will atleast be improved by osmosis. if he cant pass then surround him with a player who can so that he can just worry about finishing plays and not setting plays up for players.

the 6ers made it to the championship and were relevent for yrs simply by surrounding A.I. with players that could either do what he couldnt or didnt want to do. the Ravens won a superbowl, with T.Dilfer. the 9ers are trying to win now with A.Smith. and the bucks should use the same formula if Monte is their guy. not that it will necessarily equal success for the bucks but it is a proven formula.

after Kobe, Wade, and Manu; Monte is as cold as any SG in the league. funny i dont see many ppl hating on the players who cant score, just if you cant play defense it seems.

i agree he'd be perfect on team built like the bulls or as the 6th man on a championship caliber team. if put into the right situation theres alot of value to be had in Monte.

plus he's undersized playing against bigger players

seriously why doesnt anyone ever complains about the guys who cant score for not being all around players? seems to me only the guys who main calling card is scoring get called out for not being all around players when majority of the players in the league could be classified as 1 dimentional?

Is not about him being an all around player....

He's not efficient in what he's good at. Defense aside..

He scores a bunch but it also takes him a lot of possessions to do so. Doesnt shoot a high % compared to the rest of the current guards. Turn the ball over.. Etc etc..




-Juke

[TajDeni]

Re: Why is Monta Ellis not considered a top guard?

Is not about him being an all around player....

He's not efficient in what he's good at. Defense aside..

He scores a bunch but it also takes him a lot of possessions to do so. Doesnt shoot a high % compared to the rest of the current guards. Turn the ball over.. Etc etc..




-Juke

but he's always been on bad teams as the main scoring option if im not mistaken. im sure he could be more successful on the right tean and situation.