why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible player?
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Originally posted by DCAllAmericanHow many brothers fell victim to the skeet......... -
It would never depend on the make up of my team lol.. If I had 11 guys and they told me last spot Melo or Tony there would be 0 chance I would ever pick Tony..Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
and depending on the team, that could cause chemistry problems on and off the court. egos, cohesion, roles, responsibility and other things factor into the success of a team. if you have a group of ball-stopping scorers, tony allen is very useful because his role will not interfere with the roles of others.xbox gt - bmorerep87
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and depending on the team, that could cause chemistry problems on and off the court. egos, cohesion, roles, responsibility and other things factor into the success of a team. if you have a group of ball-stopping scorers, tony allen is very useful because his role will not interfere with the roles of others.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
comparing defensive specialists to carmelo or monta ellis is ridiculous on the one hand because nobody's making that decision
when people sign tony allen, they are thinking "do i want a guy off the bench who can score, or a spot starter that plays terrific defense?"
role players always have a specialty and all of these guys are "good players"
except randy foye he sucksComment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
in the scenario you described, where you have a team with 11 players, you likely don't need a carmelo anthony type if the choices are between him and tony allen.xbox gt - bmorerep87
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
BTW, Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd weren't added because they are "superstars". Could say the same about the Unibrow.Comment
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If you're talking about the 12th man (like you said) then my guess is one of the other 10 guys would pick up the slack. Otherwise if your team really doesn't have another scoring option then Allen wouldn't have been the right pick up at that time. But there are a billion scenarios where this wouldn't be an issue.
BTW, Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd weren't added because they are "superstars". Could say the same about the Unibrow.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
I know if the Bulls was in this scenario to pick between Tony Allen and Melo, it's Melo all day or Gar Forman gets fired on the spot. Same scenario between Tony Allen and Monta Ellis. It's Ellis all day.
Like Tony Allen and like his hard nose approach to the game but he would not help the Bulls one bit. Melo or Ellis would give the Bulls a chance.I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
Conversely, Tony Allen is a very good defender but his contributions on that side of the ball pale in comparison to what Melo brings on the other side of the ball. You don't run a defense through Tony Allen.
But even with that said, the answer you were replying to was "It depends on the make up of your team." and you said you would never do it and basing it on the teams in the league now. If you're going to use realistic examples like that then the comparison needs to be more realistic. Compare Allen to someone who contributes nothing but 3's. I'm trying not to shoot from the hip with names bc that can fall in the same trap but compare to someone like Josh Howard who can score in many different ways but needs to be a role player and doesn't do much on the defensive end (as far as I can remember when he's healthy). Maybe we can even use a Nate Robinson, I don't know. But you're using apples and oranges here.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
I know if the Bulls was in this scenario to pick between Tony Allen and Melo, it's Melo all day or Gar Forman gets fired on the spot. Same scenario between Tony Allen and Monta Ellis. It's Ellis all day.
Like Tony Allen and like his hard nose approach to the game but he would not help the Bulls one bit. Melo or Ellis would give the Bulls a chance.Comment
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It's a dumb comparison. Melo is called only a scorer but that's a generalization that fits in other discussions. The reality is he's a guy the offense can be run through, a solid rebounder for his natural position (SF), someone who can play SF or PF but capable of handling the ball too. He's criticized for his lack of defense but he is most definitely more than just a scorer.
Conversely, Tony Allen is a very good defender but his contributions on that side of the ball pale in comparison to what Melo brings on the other side of the ball. You don't run a defense through Tony Allen.
But even with that said, the answer you were replying to was "It depends on the make up of your team." and you said you would never do it and basing it on the teams in the league now. If you're going to use realistic examples like that then the comparison needs to be more realistic. Compare Allen to someone who contributes nothing but 3's. I'm trying not to shoot from the hip with names bc that can fall in the same trap but compare to someone like Josh Howard who can score in many different ways but needs to be a role player and doesn't do much on the defensive end (as far as I can remember when he's healthy). Maybe we can even use a Nate Robinson, I don't know. But you're using apples and oranges here.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
To the question of the OP guys that play shut down level D and do nothing else aren't viewed as horrible players. In fact there are some guys who have been nothing but elite defenders and below average to horrible offensively that have gotten very high praise. One of them Dennis Rodman just got in the HOF. Ben Wallace is another one who has been greatly praised and have some people calling for him to get in the HOF. Tyson Chandler is another guy who is now a gold medal winner and making plenty of dollars for his defensive skillset because offensively unless he is dunking he isn't really giving you anything.
Elite defensive big men are always going to get more of the shine but guys like Bowen have gotten pub as well. Tony Allen and Avery Bradley are current guys who are getting network TV love for their defense. I think where your question comes from is for guys who are just above average defenders and nothing else. Those are the guys who get overlooked.
As far as the one sided offensive players go they always are going to get more shine because it is easier to sell and at the end of the day the object of the game is to outscore your oppenent. You can have the best defense in the world but if you can't score you can't win.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
If you took the "never" out and just went with this post...
Now if we were talking truly ONLY a scorer, and an "above average" one since that's where I'd put Allen in terms of a defender, then we've got a discussion involving real teams. There isn't a current defender on the level of Melo offensively but if we use some names just mentioned like Rodman, Ben Wallace, even Dikembe... then a fair comparison could be made to Melo.
I know you were just throwing something out real quick initially. I'm just saying if we're really going to break it down we have to make the players on each side equal.Comment
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Re: why is it if you can play shut down defense but cant score you are a terrible pla
I think a better question would have been JR Smith vs Tony Allen. Melo is a terrible example because Melo can score and rebound among the best of his position.Too Old To Game Club
Urban Meyer is lol.Comment
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