San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

[aholbert32]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

And that's the thing. Making up fake injuries vs telling the truth shouldn't be the difference between lawsuits from fans or not. Phil Jackson's Bulls and Lakers always had players that had mysterious injuries until the playoffs. Everyone knew the deal. It really bothers me that this only matters bc of the names of the players involved. All of the examples presented don't apply imo bc this is a team sport. The issues with it are related to marketing it as a bunch of individuals and now there are lawsuits to support that notion?

The NBA cant have it both ways. They have been successful for almost 30 years promoting the league through individual players. You cant market the players to entice people to attend games and then wonder why fans are upset when those players dont play. Especially when those players are healthy.

There isnt a bright line rule for this. Its a case of what people believe is reasonable. For example, the Wiz play the Heat twice a year. I have tickets to both games, one that was scheduled for December and one that is scheduled for April. Barring injury, I expected the stars (Bron, Wade, Bosh) to play in the December game (which they did) because it was an early season game.

Now for the April game, I reasonably expect that some or none of their stars will play because its close to the Playoffs and there is a reasonable expectation that coaches rest their players immediately before the playoffs.

I agreed with Stern's reasoning for the fines in the first place. This was the only time the Spurs were visiting Miami (fans only chance to see Duncan/Parker), it was an early season game and it was a nationally televised game (sitting starters could potentially affect the NBA's relationship w/ TNT and ad sponsors). People may act like the Spurs only loyalty should be to the team and to their fans but their actions have bigger ramifications. Those big TV deals and the fans willingness to pay more for those premium games are a bigger reason the Spurs are profitable and the players are well paid.

[aholbert32]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

That's what I was originally asking you about. I'm not even touching who was hurt by this bc I think it's a joke that anyone can say they were... but my feelings and what can actually be done about it probably are two different things. I'm only wondering why this would be a Spurs issue rather than an NBA issue. And I would think it'd be a Heat issue before a Spurs issue as well, but ultimately any connection with the fans I would think falls at the feet of the league, not individual teams.

I just think it was a poor job by the attorney. You can name the Spurs individually and name the league but you cant leave the league out of the lawsuit. He will be forced to amend or his lawsuit will probably be tossed.

[wwharton]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

The NBA cant have it both ways. They have been successful for almost 30 years promoting the league through individual players. You cant market the players to entice people to attend games and then wonder why fans are upset when those players dont play. Especially when those players are healthy.

There isnt a bright line rule for this. Its a case of what people believe is reasonable. For example, the Wiz play the Heat twice a year. I have tickets to both games, one that was scheduled for December and one that is scheduled for April. Barring injury, I expected the stars (Bron, Wade, Bosh) to play in the December game (which they did) because it was an early season game.

Now for the April game, I reasonably expect that some or none of their stars will play because its close to the Playoffs and there is a reasonable expectation that coaches rest their players immediately before the playoffs.

I agreed with Stern's reasoning for the fines in the first place. This was the only time the Spurs were visiting Miami (fans only chance to see Duncan/Parker), it was an early season game and it was a nationally televised game (sitting starters could potentially affect the NBA's relationship w/ TNT and ad sponsors). People may act like the Spurs only loyalty should be to the team and to their fans but their actions have bigger ramifications. Those big TV deals and the fans willingness to pay more for those premium games are a bigger reason the Spurs are profitable and the players are well paid.

I definitely disagree with you but don't have an argument for it, it just is what it is. Obviously it was in Stern's rights to do what he did bc it happened so I'm not even focusing on that. You say the NBA can't have it both ways but I'm definitely not defending the NBA... honestly don't even care if they end up having to shell out money for this bc they, lead by Stern, created this crap. I just don't see how any individual team could be targeted... especially the away team in this case.

I just think it was a poor job by the attorney. You can name the Spurs individually and name the league but you cant leave the league out of the lawsuit. He will be forced to amend or his lawsuit will probably be tossed.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Hopefully it gets tossed anyway. Even if it's class action, it'd open a serious can of worms. But if it does go through it's the NBA's fault. Sorry to any ticket holders but props to Pops if the result is exposing this horrible business set up.

[Sportsforever]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

He wouldnt have grounds to sue if he didnt actually have tickets to the game.

He still doesn't have grounds to sue if he had luxury box seats IMO...seriously, another example of what is wrong with our tort system. The very fact that someone would listen to this guy and run with a lawsuit is disturbing.

Twist it all you want, it isn't the Spurs job to advertise the game. It is their job to manage their franchise in order to win the most games and put a competitive team on the floor. If this guy wins, it opens up an entire can of worms that needs to say locked shut.

[jeebs9]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

wwharton... When you say Stern created it.. Do you mean by his comments at the game, the huge fine after the game or the product that the NBA markets year in and out?

[aholbert32]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

He still doesn't have grounds to sue if he had luxury box seats IMO...seriously, another example of what is wrong with our tort system. The very fact that someone would listen to this guy and run with a lawsuit is disturbing.

Twist it all you want, it isn't the Spurs job to advertise the game. It is their job to manage their franchise in order to win the most games and put a competitive team on the floor. If this guy wins, it opens up an entire can of worms that needs to say locked shut.

Again its a class action. All 20k fans who attended the game and purchased a ticket have a chance to join the lawsuit. Also, this case wont go to trial so their wont be a can of worms opened. Either it will be dismissed outright at the beginning or the NBA will settle before it goes to trial. No precedent will be set.

[bigbob]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

If people are sticking up for the lawsuit because it was a "Nationally Televised Game", I want to sue the NBA for putting the Sun in a "Nationally Televised Game" on the 24th.

They're doing the fans and the league an injustice just by having them on the same court as the Clippers for a "Nationally Televised Game", and I'm paying my cable bill every month, so technically I'm paying to see the game.

I wish I had a lawyer.

[Sportsforever]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

Again its a class action. All 20k fans who attended the game and purchased a ticket have a chance to join the lawsuit. Also, this case wont go to trial so their wont be a can of worms opened. Either it will be dismissed outright at the beginning or the NBA will settle before it goes to trial. No precedent will be set.

The can of worms that gets opened is that fans will start doing this for all sorts of stuff. I buy a ticket to see Clayton Kershaw pitch...it's his advertised start day. I show up and the Dodgers have decided they want to hold him off a day to get an extra day of rest for the pennant race...you think it's okay for me to ask for a refund?

[wwharton]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

wwharton... When you say Stern created it.. Do you mean by his comments at the game, the huge fine after the game or the product that the NBA markets year in and out?

I'm talking about the product that the NBA markets year in and out. He's marketed this league as a bunch of individuals... and stood behind that idea with his comments at the game and the fine after. But overall, if the Heat are promoting "Tim Duncan and the Spurs" it's with the NBA's blessing and following Stern's lead of individual over team.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

In fairness though wwharton, that's the direction that sports has gone. David Stern and the NBA isn't the only sport/league that has marketed behind individual players. I know we all hate Stern and like to pretend like that's the case, but the NFL isn't selling you to come see the defensive linemen or the offensive linemen in the trenches doing work. They tell you to come see Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Devin Hester, Drew Brees and the Saints. MLB tells you to come see Derrick Jeter, A-Rod and so on. This is all of sports doing this.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

I went to a Redskins-Packers game a few years ago and not once was it ever advertised as "Come see Donovan McNabb and the Redskins take on Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers". It was marketed as "Come see the Washington Redskins take on the Green Bay Packers".

Sure, you'll hear network talking heads in their promos say things like "Tom Brady will be leading the Patriots into the Superdome to take on the Saints" but that's not the league telling "Make sure you market the game as this" like the NBA does with it's teams.

Problem with that Pack is that you can't actually prove that they were purposely playing like ****.

Comment wasn't meant to be taken literally.

[wwharton]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

In fairness though wwharton, that's the direction that sports has gone. David Stern and the NBA isn't the only sport/league that has marketed behind individual players. I know we all hate Stern and like to pretend like that's the case, but the NFL isn't selling you to come see the defensive linemen or the offensive linemen in the trenches doing work. They tell you to come see Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Devin Hester, Drew Brees and the Saints. MLB tells you to come see Derrick Jeter, A-Rod and so on. This is all of sports doing this.

I'm not one to randomly bash Stern. I've actually defended him for taking the league in this direction to begin with... it did wonders for the NBA but it should've been just a jump starter and it's long since ran it's course as something positive.

Other leagues aren't doing the same at all. The NFL is the "ultimate team sport" and that hasn't changed. And baseball is a great example of teams that sit their stars whenever they see fit without a warning's notice. Networks will highlight players, of course... they always have. But the NBA has literally pushed their product based on individuals. We've discussed plenty of times the successful "teams" that get little love.

[23]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

I'm not one to randomly bash Stern. I've actually defended him for taking the league in this direction to begin with... it did wonders for the NBA but it should've been just a jump starter and it's long since ran it's course as something positive.

Other leagues aren't doing the same at all. The NFL is the "ultimate team sport" and that hasn't changed. And baseball is a great example of teams that sit their stars whenever they see fit without a warning's notice. Networks will highlight players, of course... they always have. But the NBA has literally pushed their product based on individuals. We've discussed plenty of times the successful "teams" that get little love.

Not that I agree with the lawsuit, but there you have it.

David Stern has pushed the league into "its a business" and also telling the networks who to market because they're apart of the same circle with the mutual contracts, etc..

Its not a surprise at all that someone is taking a business shot at them at all...

Like I said this is what he should be protecting his teams from, not getting on tv rambling about his tv partners and the money involved. Its almost like his league is just paid programming the way he carries on sometimes, and people wonder why the nba leaves alot of sour taste in folks mouths.

[woody2goody]

We had this here in the UK with our Soccer a couple of years ago.

A coach was fined for not putting out the best team he could in a cup competition because he wanted to rest players for the next league game.

These decisions are basically the leagues deciding who a team's best players are. I find it absolutely ridiculous that a manager cannot change his entire team if he wants. He gets paid to pick the team, not the league.

In basketball I believe resting players is extremely important, and sanctions against the Spurs would be disgraceful to be honest.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: San Antonio Spurs to Receive Sanctions for Resting Players

Come on now guys. The NFL definitely markets stars. If it was just marketing the team as we're trying to say in here, then when it's showing you graphics for a game it'd just be the team's logos going head to head. When you're watching an NFL game and they're telling you the next game that's coming on they're making sure they show you specific players. On CBS if you're watching and they flash the next game of their doubleheader it's not going to be a picture of the Patriots logo, it's Tom Brady. You look at NFL promotional tools, it's Drew Brees or Tom Brady. They market stars just like every other sports league. Now do they do it to the level of the NBA? Probably not, but they definitely do it.

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How is that not marketing stars?