2012/13 MVP

[jeebs9]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

If I had to pick an MVP right now it'd probably be LeBron. He's been dropping some crazy numbers in the last 5 years haha jk. Is there a stat for how many times a player almost had a triple double? Because LeBron's got to be leading in that area.

But also I would of reacted the same way if someone mentioned Westbrook in the MVP race lol.

[ojandpizza]

I never said I think that Westbrook is in the MVP race..

What I said was that Chris Paul will not win the MVP award as long as Westbrook has arguably better stats and the Thunder have a better record.

I also said it isn't fair that NBA.com has Westbrook missing the entire top 10 (actually 15) when he is CLEARLY having a better year than everyone except maybe the top 5ish.

- best record in the league, 6th in points, 5th in assists, 3rd in steals

3rd in PRF (points responsible for) 1st out of all the point guards.

Leads all PG's in scoring, all PG's in PRF, probably leads all PG's in rebounds(maybe Rondo is up there too), higher EFF rating than CP3 over the past couple weeks with more points, boards, and equal assists..

Like I said, I don't think he deserves MVP. It's just ridiculous he isn't even on their list.

Don't confuse last years Russ with the Russ over the past two months of this year.

[JODYE]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

I'm not confusing Russ with any Russ or any other player for that matter. Don't be fooled by some per game numbers. He isn't having a better year than CP by any stretch.

You gotta dive a little deeper than that.

First off, CP3 is playing over 4 less minutes a game than Russ. Let's start with that.

Secondly Russ is only scoring 4 more points than Chris on 6 more shots per game. If that's better, than ok...i guess. If you like volume scoring. Me, I'm not particularly keen on it.

Additionally, Chris is only averaging 1 rebound less and 1 assist more. Now you make look at that, and think, man, Russ is really having a good year passing the ball but it's more than that.

First, Chris Paul has the 2nd highest TOV ratio in the league at 4.41 behind a guy that plays 11 less minutes than him. The only other starter in the top 5 is Tony Parker and he's a full point less at 3.49.

Where's Russ? 32nd at 2.39.

He also currently leads the league in turnovers. Also not very good.

But then you really get to the good stuff. These advanced metrics are great for really determining a players value, but also to confirm whether those per game stats hold any weight and to see if he's getting the most out of his time on the floor.

First thing you can look at is USG rate. Russ is the 3rd highest in the league at 30.2. Chris Paul is 46th at 23.3. So that should already begin to tell you, the value of the numbers each of these players have accumulated so far and who is getting the most out of their minutes. Which is supported by PER which Chris Paul sits at 26.61 which is unreal for only playing 33 minutes a game. Russ sits at 22.87.

The numbers continue to be supported by TS% which Chris Paul is 10% better, his regular shooting and FT shooting percentages and my new favorite Win Shares per 48 minutes which Chris Paul leads the league in at .300. Russ isn't even in the top 20.

That's points responsible for is a meh stat. Mainly because it supports ball dominant players. Chris Paul doesn't always need the ball to be successful and also plays on a team that is 3rd in the league in assists and has 100 more assists as a team than OKC does, so I don't expect him to be high on that list. The Clippers are a much more balanced team.

Chris Paul also leads the league in steals.

Russ is also overshadowed by the fact that he has Kevin Durant on his team. Rarely do you see two players on the same team getting MVP nods.

Also not sure where you're getting a higher EFF rating over the past couple weeks. You'd have to show me that one. Given the fact that in the last 5 games, Russ has averaged 5 TOV a game, which effects your PER greatly, I doubt it.

[d11king]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

^^^ This is the reason I believe Chris Paul is the MVP. You can bet your bottom dollar the Clippers are 27-6 or whatever because of Chris Paul.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

If I had to pick an MVP right now it'd probably be LeBron. He's been dropping some crazy numbers in the last 5 years haha jk. Is there a stat for how many times a player almost had a triple double? Because LeBron's got to be leading in that area.

But also I would of reacted the same way if someone mentioned Westbrook in the MVP race lol.

Don't want to bring up any pointless stats here..but LeBron has been one rebound or one assists shy of a triple double 32 times in his career.

[ojandpizza]

I'm not confusing Russ with any Russ or any other player for that matter. Don't be fooled by some per game numbers. He isn't having a better year than CP by any stretch.

You gotta dive a little deeper than that.

First off, CP3 is playing over 4 less minutes a game than Russ. Let's start with that.

Secondly Russ is only scoring 4 more points than Chris on 6 more shots per game. If that's better, than ok...i guess. If you like volume scoring. Me, I'm not particularly keen on it.

Additionally, Chris is only averaging 1 rebound less and 1 assist more. Now you make look at that, and think, man, Russ is really having a good year passing the ball but it's more than that.

First, Chris Paul has the 2nd highest TOV ratio in the league at 4.41 behind a guy that plays 11 less minutes than him. The only other starter in the top 5 is Tony Parker and he's a full point less at 3.49.

Where's Russ? 32nd at 2.39.

He also currently leads the league in turnovers. Also not very good.

But then you really get to the good stuff. These advanced metrics are great for really determining a players value, but also to confirm whether those per game stats hold any weight and to see if he's getting the most out of his time on the floor.

First thing you can look at is USG rate. Russ is the 3rd highest in the league at 30.2. Chris Paul is 46th at 23.3. So that should already begin to tell you, the value of the numbers each of these players have accumulated so far and who is getting the most out of their minutes. Which is supported by PER which Chris Paul sits at 26.61 which is unreal for only playing 33 minutes a game. Russ sits at 22.87.

The numbers continue to be supported by TS% which Chris Paul is 10% better, his regular shooting and FT shooting percentages and my new favorite Win Shares per 48 minutes which Chris Paul leads the league in at .300. Russ isn't even in the top 20.

That's points responsible for is a meh stat. Mainly because it supports ball dominant players. Chris Paul doesn't always need the ball to be successful and also plays on a team that is 3rd in the league in assists and has 100 more assists as a team than OKC does, so I don't expect him to be high on that list. The Clippers are a much more balanced team.

Chris Paul also leads the league in steals.

Russ is also overshadowed by the fact that he has Kevin Durant on his team. Rarely do you see two players on the same team getting MVP nods.

Also not sure where you're getting a higher EFF rating over the past couple weeks. You'd have to show me that one. Given the fact that in the last 5 games, Russ has averaged 5 TOV a game, which effects your PER greatly, I doubt it.

When I first posted that Russ deserved on the list, I think Saturday? NBA.com last 5 games if where it showed Russ had the higher EFF.. And CP3 was less than one assist over Russ and almost two rebounds behind him. It was the day after Paul had 30-13 against LAL.

While all that you said is true nobody is going to be digging that deep into advanced stats to vote for the MVP.. If that was the case Derrick Rose would never have an MVP award.

I also said that I feel CP3 deserves it before Russ does. I just said not having Russ in the top 10 is ridiculous.

I don't like the "he shoots more" stuff because that is his role. He plays the way he is wanted to. He can't be knocked for shooting lots and maybe not having the greatest % when he is coached to be part 2 of the biggest scoring duo in the league.

But I don't think any PG deserves MVP while averaging under 10 assists per game. Rose was the first to do so since Cousy back in '56? I think.. So neither of these two would ever get a first place vote from me.. Just as a big man with under 10 rebounds would never get a vote from me.

I just want Russ in the top 10.. He's playing better than people on the list. And Kevin Durant is not the only reason the team is winning ball games.

[ojandpizza]

^^^ This is the reason I believe Chris Paul is the MVP. You can bet your bottom dollar the Clippers are 27-6 or whatever because of Chris Paul.

It probably has nothing to do with Blake Griffin playing like a top 3 PF in the league, having two 6th man of the year candidates, and probably the deepest supporting cast in the league.

I agree CP3 contributes more to his team winning that Westbrook does, but the Thunder also don't have the best record in the league with Durant alone.

Also what about LeBron? I guess the Heat would be at the top of the east without him? I'd be willing to say the Clippers would fair much better without Paul than the Heat would without LeBron. Or Thunder without Durant.

[iLLosophy]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

While all that you said is true nobody is going to be digging that deep into advanced stats to vote for the MVP.. If that was the case Derrick Rose would never have an MVP award.

I also said that I feel CP3 deserves it before Russ does. I just said not having Russ in the top 10 is ridiculous.

If you can understand why no one will dig that deep for CP3, it should be easy to understand why no one will even consider westbrook. They are going to look at a) teams with the best record, then b) who's the best player on that team.

Bottom line when it comes to the MVP votes, all that matters is the first place votes and they are usually spent on the first 5-6 players in the list. After that doesn't really matter if you're 6th or 16th...a guy like westbrook is still going to have less than 1% of the total mvp points.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 2012/13 MVP

The way these analyst talk you would think Melo won it

[ojandpizza]

If you can understand why no one will dig that deep for CP3, it should be easy to understand why no one will even consider westbrook. They are going to look at a) teams with the best record, then b) who's the best player on that team.

Bottom line when it comes to the MVP votes, all that matters is the first place votes and they are usually spent on the first 5-6 players in the list. After that doesn't really matter if you're 6th or 16th...a guy like westbrook is still going to have less than 1% of the total mvp points.

I think Bron and Wade both finished in the top 5 when Rose won his MVP? All I'm asking for is some top 10 recognition here lol..

I'm sure Kobe was up there when Shaq won his. I'm sure Parker or Ginobili have finished top 10 for at least one of Duncan's.

[ojandpizza]

They also have Curry in the top 10 AND Lee is on that "The Next Five" list..

Smith is on the list with Horford on the next 5

Duncan is on the list with Parker on the next 5

... Even Damian Lillard made the "next 5" list .. You can't tell me that's right lol

[ojandpizza]

Also they have Curry in the top 10 and Lee on the "The Next Five" list.

Smith in the top 10 and Horford in the next 5

Duncan in the top 10 and Parker in the next 5.

.. Even Damian Lillard is on the next 5 list.. You can't tell me that is right lol

[ojandpizza]

Sorry.. It showed the first one didn't post.