12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

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  • CMH
    Making you famous
    • Oct 2002
    • 26203

    #46
    Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

    Originally posted by 23
    Me thinks its time Gasol starts throwing people under the bus and demand a trade
    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
    He doesn't have it in him to start doing that.
    Originally posted by 23
    Yeah I know he's not that sort of butt wad, but his career as a post player is toast as long as DAntoni is his coach.

    I actually want to hear from Knicks fans on this coach's perspective of what he's saying.
    It's classic D'Antoni. It's what we learned about him pretty quickly once his personnel changed from garbage players + shooters to star players + shooters.

    He won't adapt his system to the talents of is personnel. I've said it before that my opinion is a coach uses his system but tailor it to the talents of his players. I think as restrictive as Phil Jackson was (and I only bring him up because he had a very restrictive system and I feel it would be the argument against my thought, not because of his Lakers connection), he still allowed his players to work within the confines of his system.

    Phil Jackson was very good at letting MJ and Kobe be MJ and Kobe while making sure they still operated under the Triangle. And he won because he utilized the talents of his players.

    Mike D'Antoni sees Pau Gasol, post up player, and thinks to himself: I like that he can shoot. And there it goes.

    I'm not even sure what he means by not wanting anyone in the key. No one can be in the key anyway. There's a penalty for that. So what is he talking about there? Clueless, man.

    All he needs to do is let Gasol post up. You can still run the pick-and-roll while that's happening. About 28 other teams do it already to varying success depending on the rest of their talent.

    One area Mike Woodson has worked where D'Antoni failed is in the Carmelo Anthony saga. As we all know, Melo likes to post up. But D'Antoni wanted Melo to do what he's trying to make Gasol do.

    Woodson meanwhile is still running D'Antoni sets out there. He made some modifications by having Chandler come out a few feet farther from the 3pt line to set a pick, but most of the sets are the same. The adjustment he made was allowing Anthony to post up inside those sets.

    And look at Anthony's numbers since Woodson has made that change. Melo has become a 30 pt per game scorer without annoyingly taking too many bad shots (though he will take a couple here and there).

    And look at the Knick's record.

    Mike D'Antoni is a my way or the highway coach. I'll never stop saying that. He's not even a coach. He's a dictator. The only reason it hasn't gotten worse is because Kobe Bryant can be a shooter inside this system. But Kobe said it himself that he isn't able to post like he wants to. He tells Gasol to put on his big boy pants, but Kobe is ignoring that he's Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol is Pau Gasol. You don't tell Shaq to stand in the perimeter and deal with it when his game is tailored for the post. Why are Gasol's strengths being ignored.

    I don't know. None of this is new. We've all been talking about the above for weeks now.

    It's classic D'Antoni. Best of luck, Lakers fans.
    "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

    "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

    Comment

    • King_B_Mack
      All Star
      • Jan 2009
      • 24451

      #47
      Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

      Originally posted by 23
      Me thinks its time Gasol starts throwing people under the bus and demand a trade

      Wait, lol hold up. Where's the full article on that 23. I didn't just read that correctly. I couldn't have.

      Comment

      • CMH
        Making you famous
        • Oct 2002
        • 26203

        #48
        Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

        Originally posted by King_B_Mack
        Wait, lol hold up. Where's the full article on that 23. I didn't just read that correctly. I couldn't have.


        My favorite part, hands down.

        D'Antoni's offense is based on hustle and flow, not X's and O's.
        "You just make it up," D'Antoni said. "Because they can make it up better than we [coaches] can make it up."


        These are the things that are actually coming out of the mouth of this man. And he either never notices to clear it up or is truly that clueless.
        Last edited by CMH; 12-11-2012, 02:27 PM.
        "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

        "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

        Comment

        • 23
          yellow
          • Sep 2002
          • 66469

          #49
          Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

          I'm not even sure what he means by not wanting anyone in the key. No one can be in the key anyway. There's a penalty for that. So what is he talking about there? Clueless, man.

          Meaning he doesn't want the lane clogged.. not sure if you've seen a classic play the sun ran



          Similar to that..

          The 1 - Nash runs around the pick, usually to go towards the basket

          If he can lay it up, he does
          If thats taken he can pass to the pick man 4-Amare

          If both options are out of the picture, you have a shooter on each wing one cuts to it, one cuts to the top angle the 2 - Joe Johnson 3 - Marion

          Then you have the 5- in this team he would be Pau lol.. I guess in this sense he doesn't want Pau in Nash's way...

          Hope that made sense.

          Comment

          • CMH
            Making you famous
            • Oct 2002
            • 26203

            #50
            Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by 23
            Meaning he doesn't want the lane clogged.. not sure if you've seen a classic play the sun ran



            Similar to that..

            The 1 - Nash runs around the pick, usually to go towards the basket

            If he can lay it up, he does
            If thats taken he can pass to the pick man 4-Amare

            If both options are out of the picture, you have a shooter on each wing one cuts to it, one cuts to the top angle the 2 - Joe Johnson 3 - Marion

            Then you have the 5- in this team he would be Pau lol.. I guess in this sense he doesn't want Pau in Nash's way...

            Hope that made sense.
            Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I'm a bit confused. The 5 is in post up position. If you move the ball to the 4 and he swings it to the 2, he can then dump it over to the 5 to post up. By that time, a double team would be late from the 2's defender, the 4 (maybe a Howard in this Lakers offense) could cut to the basket (and Gasol is an amazing passer for a big man so he'd be perfect where the 5 is), and the 1 can move back to the top of the three point line just in case the 2's defender does try to double team and the 5 passes out to the 2 who then swings it to the 1 depending on the defensive rotation. That's a lot to consider but it's all there.

            From D'Antoni's comment, he made it seem as if the 5 in that diagram is another 5 feet out to take a 15 foot jumper. And if that's the case, then you definitely don't have the post up player but you have the spacing on the floor.

            Or you could take the reverse and assume Gasol plays the 4 (as he normally would) in that diagram and is now positioned to take the 17 footer. And I think that's what we're seeing mostly, right? I haven't watched many Lakers games recently to confirm this, but the shot metrics seems to suggest that Gasol is that 4 whose only option is the long two-point shot.

            But outside of all that, you could have Gasol play the 5 and give him the post up option. Sure, he won't be the main option on offense, and in the example I made, he'd actually end up being a few passes away, but that would make more sense than having Dwight in that position where he is ineffective when he should be a cutting 4 after setting the pick.
            Last edited by CMH; 12-11-2012, 02:47 PM.
            "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

            "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

            Comment

            • 23
              yellow
              • Sep 2002
              • 66469

              #51
              Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

              That was an old Suns play and I don't ever remember the 5 being involved really

              To be honest, right now he wants Gasol nowhere near the "improvise zone" which is the key where the point guard usually ends up roaming.

              It's part of the key to spacing for them. I haven't really checked to see if they've run that set in LA.. the 5 though is not really in the play moreso than a roubounder if they miss the shot, which is what im saying...

              That is run for the PnR and for shooters, not passing it inside

              Comment

              • CMH
                Making you famous
                • Oct 2002
                • 26203

                #52
                Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by 23
                That was an old Suns play and I don't ever remember the 5 being involved really

                To be honest, right now he wants Gasol nowhere near the "improvise zone" which is the key where the point guard usually ends up roaming.

                It's part of the key to spacing for them. I haven't really checked to see if they've run that set in LA.. the 5 though is not really in the play moreso than a roubounder if they miss the shot, which is what im saying...

                That is run for the PnR and for shooters, not passing it inside
                Yeah I don't remember the 5 being involved either. And he normally wasn't until maybe Shaq joined the squad.

                I just think they could run that diagram with some effectiveness if Gasol is in the 5's position.

                But I do get what you mean by what that play is actually trying to accomplish. I wouldn't be surprised if they run a variation of it if Gasol is the 4. But maybe they don't. I'm guessing Howard is mostly the pick man in the PnR? Perhaps a Lakers fan can tell me.

                Where is Gasol standing in that situation? Are the Lakers having two big men at the top corners of the key similar to what you see out of Chicago when they give Rose the option to PnR either left or right?
                "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                Comment

                • 23
                  yellow
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 66469

                  #53
                  Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                  I think Mike D is wanting Gasol to be in different spots to shoot jumpers moreso than post.

                  Remember he doesn't want predictability

                  Comment

                  • bigeastbumrush
                    My Momma's Son
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 19245

                    #54
                    Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                    Originally posted by 23
                    Me thinks its time Gasol starts throwing people under the bus and demand a trade



                    Comment

                    • RoundingThird
                      Leyenda
                      • Aug 2012
                      • 3468

                      #55
                      Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                      Originally posted by 13
                      Again, no one cares what your games to watch are.

                      We understand you want to get your post count up, but POST THE DAMN SCHEDULE!! I vote, that if it happens again, banhammer time lol

                      Anyway, I don't see this week being a surprise as last week was. Tough games and tough travel schedule could lead to a big goose egg, but I'll remain optimistic.

                      Clippers in town, then east to Philly (W) and then back home against the Nets. As King said, I could see 2-1 but realistically, barring any Joakim Noah herculean efforts, I see a 1-2 week.
                      Sorry, will do next time. I edited it and used the one on the first page. From now on, there will be a schedule on the opening post as long as I make the thread.
                      Red Sox|Patriots|Celtics|UConn

                      Comment

                      • CMH
                        Making you famous
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 26203

                        #56
                        Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by 23
                        I think Mike D is wanting Gasol to be in different spots to shoot jumpers moreso than post.

                        Remember he doesn't want predictability
                        We both agree how stupid this is.
                        "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                        "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                        Comment

                        • 23
                          yellow
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 66469

                          #57
                          Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                          Originally posted by CMH
                          We both agree how stupid this is.
                          I shared those quotes with a pretty great basketball mind we all know

                          He says Thanks, now I now I have the proof that he's an idiot

                          Go figure

                          Comment

                          • CMH
                            Making you famous
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 26203

                            #58
                            Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by 23
                            I shared those quotes with a pretty great basketball mind we all know

                            He says Thanks, now I now I have the proof that he's an idiot

                            Go figure
                            I wish I could hear him blast D'Antoni. I know it's not in his nature, but would be great to hear him out coach the man leading the Los Angeles Lakers.
                            "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                            "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                            Comment

                            • 23
                              yellow
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 66469

                              #59
                              Re: 12/10 - 12/16 Game Discussion Thread

                              Wait til this weekend...lol

                              I'll link you

                              Comment

                              • The 24th Letter
                                ERA
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 39373

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Po1soNNN
                                Sorry, will do next time. I edited it and used the one on the first page. From now on, there will be a schedule on the opening post as long as I make the thread.
                                Dag man, this reply made me sad

                                Comment

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