Scott Layden Has Been Fired

**tenth** · 12-22-2003, 03:14 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Yeah since he really did well with his CBA adventure, maybe he'll run the Knicks outta buisness next.

<hr /></blockquote>
Last I heard the CBA flop was credited to his lack of interest and time-involvement with the league. His job as Pacer's coach was far more important to him. SI did a huge article on it...

**Jayhawk** · 12-22-2003, 03:15 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LINK???? PLEASE!!!!!

I want pictures like Saddam getting his teeth checked to prove this one!!!

<hr /></blockquote> From ESPN Or if Sportsline is your pleasure

**Jayhawk** · 12-22-2003, 03:15 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LINK???? PLEASE!!!!!

I want pictures like Saddam getting his teeth checked to prove this one!!!

<hr /></blockquote> From ESPN Or if Sportsline is your pleasure

**Jayhawk** · 12-22-2003, 03:15 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LINK???? PLEASE!!!!!

I want pictures like Saddam getting his teeth checked to prove this one!!!

<hr /></blockquote> From ESPN Or if Sportsline is your pleasure

**jordan0386** · 12-22-2003, 03:21 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

a little perspective on the great scott layden

all credit goes to Lang Whitaker of SLAM! Magazine

Why did all this happen? Why now? I don't know. The Layden part should have happened years ago. Let's look at the roster Layden has put together and the money involved:

POINT GUARD: The Knicks go three deep at the one. The Charlie Ward era is nearly over, with his contract up after this season. That will help, since God's Son was making over $5 million this year. Frank Williams is still on his rookie deal, but he's been the most exciting player on the team thus far. He rarely plays, though he came in Saturday night against the Hawks and spurred a huge run that ultimately gave the Knicks the win. So why wasn't he playing all along? Finally, there's Howard Eisley, who's making over $5 million per until 2007! Layden did not sign him to that ridiculous contract -- Mark Cuban did, naturally -- but Layden went out and got him, basically for Glen Rice. That's nearly $13 million at the point. None of the three averages over 9 points per game or 5 assists per game.

SHOOTING GUARD: There's really only one shooting guard on the Knicks roster: Allan Houston. Now, Houston has been battling injuries and is averaging around 20 points per game, but he makes over $14 million through 2007. That's Kobe-type money, and Houston is not a Kobe-type player. He's a great complementary player, and when his jumper is going he's near impossible to stop, but he can't take over a game. It doesn't help when the player making franchise-player money has the charisma of a statue. Houston's a nice guy and he's always been great with the media, but he just doesn't have that personality that a New York player needs to be loved. Plus, he made Latrell Sprewell play out of position for so many years, and Spree was such a favorite here in NYC for having that workmanlike attitude, it was tough to fill his Dada's. That's $14 million a year at the two guard. Hey, he gets $20 million in 2006-07.

SMALL FORWARD: Welcome to the jungle. The two forward positions for the Knicks are a horrible mess, with bad players fighting for time against players who, for one reason or another, aren't what they used to be. The starting small forward for New York is Keith Van Horn, a famously indifferent performer that makes nearly $13 million per season through 2006. He's averaging 14.8 points per through today, nearly a point per million. His back-up is Shandon Anderson, and you could make a case that Shandon has been the Knicks best player this season, if only because he always, in the words of Rasheed Wallace, plays hard. He's not averaging many points (8 points per in 25 minutes a night), but he's the only player that consistently hustles and runs the floor. He's also the only Knick that ever tries to dunk on people, so that wins him points. His salary, though, is a problem: he makes $6 million a year through 2007. Lee Nailon, for example, averages 5 points a game and makes about $1 million from Atlanta. And the Knicks let Nailon walk. Anyway, that's $19 million at the three.

POWER FORWARD: Here's the big logjam. Antonio McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Othella Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon and Michael Sweetney are all fighting for minutes. McDyess, of course, was acquired for Nenê and Marcus Camby, a combo that has combined to help push Denver to the top of the Western Conference. McDyess, meanwhile, can only dunk if he's all alone under the basket, and even then he has to take a second to gather himself. He was once an amazingly explosive player, but that player is gone. Whether he will ever return remains to be seen. McDyess, by the way, is making $13 million this season, though he's a free agent after the year. McDyess's "return" from injury has pushed Krazy Kurt Thomas to the bench, which hasn't made Kurt happy. That's understandable, since Kurt's been the only consistent post player in New York over the last five years. He's also wildly underpaid by New York Knicks standards, making $5 million per through the end of this year. His low salary has made him perpetual trade bait, but he's stuck with it, averaging 14 and 8 last year. Harrington and Weatherspoon are basically interchangeable, two role players that don't understand they should be role players, so they're constantly turning the ball over and making the wrong passes. They have one other thing in common: They're overpaid. Weatherspoon actually makes slightly more than Kurt Thomas, through 2006, but we'll round it to $5 million. Harrington, who may actually be the worst power forward in the NBA, is making about $3 million per, through 2005. We haven't even gotten to Mike Sweetney, who the Knicks drafted at number nine, ahead of productive rookies like Jarvis Hayes, Josh Howard and Zarko Cabarkapa, despite being loaded at the four. Sweetney is currently on the chilling list, because there's no room for him in New York. All together, that's about $29 million at the 4.

CENTER: Hey, is that Dikembe Mutombo creaking up and down the court? The former center, a lithe shot-blocking machine, disappeared. This Mutombo is always the last guy down on offense, and is more concerned with complaining to the refs than just playing the game. It's disappointing, because he's such a great guy. But there's a reason the Nets cut him. Layden gave him $10 over the next three years. His backup is Mike Doleac, who has done nothing and makes the minimum. And Travis Knight is getting $4 million for not being on the team That's about $8 million at the five spot.

You add it all up, and it comes to around $88 million. My figures above might not be exact, but that's around $90 million in salary. That's ridiculous. The Utah Jazz for example, are paying $31 million. Almost all of Layden's moves, actually, were so bizarre that they left you saying, Huh?! Yes, he was that bad.

The Knicks, in fact, are number one in the NBA in terms of salary spent this season.

They've won 10 games.

Any questions?

Actually, here's one: Why Isiah Thomas? Well, he wasn't terrible in Toronto. He did draft Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire and Tracy McGrady, after all. He screwed up because he wanted power, like he was staring at The Ring for too long. So he tried to put together a group to buy the Raptors and eventually got run out of town. Then he went to the CBA, where he was going to revitalize that league and make it an NBA farm system. Instead they went bankrupt. Soon after he wrote a book on how to succeed in business. And then he coached the Pacers, getting himself fired there because he wouldn't establish a rotation and never seemed to really get a grip on things. Rick Carlisle replaced him and the Pacers are rolling now.

I think it's safe to say that Isiah knows and can recognize talent. The big question will be how long he can stick around in New York without burning all his bridges, something he's done everywhere else he's been.

Oddly, Don Chaney has been the one on the hot seat the last few weeks. Not that he doesn't deserve it, too. The Knicks don't really have an offensive or a defensive identity, and Chaney refuses to try anything new (Frank Williams, for example). Of course, I don't think Phil Jackson could notch substantially more wins with the roster Chaney has, but he would have more wins. That's the issue here: getting the best out of what you've got. That's what Chaney has yet to do.

The name I've already hear this morning is Doc Rivers, though I later heard from another NBA person that David Stern won't let Doc Rivers go anywhere for a while, since he's the lead commentator on ABC's NBA coverage, and he's set to make his debut in three days. The other names bandied about for the announcing gig -- Mark Jackson, Rex Chapman -- have never announced a game before, and there's really no way they could step in and be great with Al Michaels right off the bat. From what I hear, the NBA has too much money invested in this ABC deal to let Doc walk now, regardless of whether or not the Knicks are the premiere team in the NBA.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chaney sticks around through the end of the year, gets canned, and then Isiah brings in Doc. I also wouldn't be surprised if Isiah hires himself, which would be disasterous. Then again, they're your New York Knicks. And anything can happen.

**jordan0386** · 12-22-2003, 03:21 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

a little perspective on the great scott layden

all credit goes to Lang Whitaker of SLAM! Magazine

Why did all this happen? Why now? I don't know. The Layden part should have happened years ago. Let's look at the roster Layden has put together and the money involved:

POINT GUARD: The Knicks go three deep at the one. The Charlie Ward era is nearly over, with his contract up after this season. That will help, since God's Son was making over $5 million this year. Frank Williams is still on his rookie deal, but he's been the most exciting player on the team thus far. He rarely plays, though he came in Saturday night against the Hawks and spurred a huge run that ultimately gave the Knicks the win. So why wasn't he playing all along? Finally, there's Howard Eisley, who's making over $5 million per until 2007! Layden did not sign him to that ridiculous contract -- Mark Cuban did, naturally -- but Layden went out and got him, basically for Glen Rice. That's nearly $13 million at the point. None of the three averages over 9 points per game or 5 assists per game.

SHOOTING GUARD: There's really only one shooting guard on the Knicks roster: Allan Houston. Now, Houston has been battling injuries and is averaging around 20 points per game, but he makes over $14 million through 2007. That's Kobe-type money, and Houston is not a Kobe-type player. He's a great complementary player, and when his jumper is going he's near impossible to stop, but he can't take over a game. It doesn't help when the player making franchise-player money has the charisma of a statue. Houston's a nice guy and he's always been great with the media, but he just doesn't have that personality that a New York player needs to be loved. Plus, he made Latrell Sprewell play out of position for so many years, and Spree was such a favorite here in NYC for having that workmanlike attitude, it was tough to fill his Dada's. That's $14 million a year at the two guard. Hey, he gets $20 million in 2006-07.

SMALL FORWARD: Welcome to the jungle. The two forward positions for the Knicks are a horrible mess, with bad players fighting for time against players who, for one reason or another, aren't what they used to be. The starting small forward for New York is Keith Van Horn, a famously indifferent performer that makes nearly $13 million per season through 2006. He's averaging 14.8 points per through today, nearly a point per million. His back-up is Shandon Anderson, and you could make a case that Shandon has been the Knicks best player this season, if only because he always, in the words of Rasheed Wallace, plays hard. He's not averaging many points (8 points per in 25 minutes a night), but he's the only player that consistently hustles and runs the floor. He's also the only Knick that ever tries to dunk on people, so that wins him points. His salary, though, is a problem: he makes $6 million a year through 2007. Lee Nailon, for example, averages 5 points a game and makes about $1 million from Atlanta. And the Knicks let Nailon walk. Anyway, that's $19 million at the three.

POWER FORWARD: Here's the big logjam. Antonio McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Othella Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon and Michael Sweetney are all fighting for minutes. McDyess, of course, was acquired for Nenê and Marcus Camby, a combo that has combined to help push Denver to the top of the Western Conference. McDyess, meanwhile, can only dunk if he's all alone under the basket, and even then he has to take a second to gather himself. He was once an amazingly explosive player, but that player is gone. Whether he will ever return remains to be seen. McDyess, by the way, is making $13 million this season, though he's a free agent after the year. McDyess's "return" from injury has pushed Krazy Kurt Thomas to the bench, which hasn't made Kurt happy. That's understandable, since Kurt's been the only consistent post player in New York over the last five years. He's also wildly underpaid by New York Knicks standards, making $5 million per through the end of this year. His low salary has made him perpetual trade bait, but he's stuck with it, averaging 14 and 8 last year. Harrington and Weatherspoon are basically interchangeable, two role players that don't understand they should be role players, so they're constantly turning the ball over and making the wrong passes. They have one other thing in common: They're overpaid. Weatherspoon actually makes slightly more than Kurt Thomas, through 2006, but we'll round it to $5 million. Harrington, who may actually be the worst power forward in the NBA, is making about $3 million per, through 2005. We haven't even gotten to Mike Sweetney, who the Knicks drafted at number nine, ahead of productive rookies like Jarvis Hayes, Josh Howard and Zarko Cabarkapa, despite being loaded at the four. Sweetney is currently on the chilling list, because there's no room for him in New York. All together, that's about $29 million at the 4.

CENTER: Hey, is that Dikembe Mutombo creaking up and down the court? The former center, a lithe shot-blocking machine, disappeared. This Mutombo is always the last guy down on offense, and is more concerned with complaining to the refs than just playing the game. It's disappointing, because he's such a great guy. But there's a reason the Nets cut him. Layden gave him $10 over the next three years. His backup is Mike Doleac, who has done nothing and makes the minimum. And Travis Knight is getting $4 million for not being on the team That's about $8 million at the five spot.

You add it all up, and it comes to around $88 million. My figures above might not be exact, but that's around $90 million in salary. That's ridiculous. The Utah Jazz for example, are paying $31 million. Almost all of Layden's moves, actually, were so bizarre that they left you saying, Huh?! Yes, he was that bad.

The Knicks, in fact, are number one in the NBA in terms of salary spent this season.

They've won 10 games.

Any questions?

Actually, here's one: Why Isiah Thomas? Well, he wasn't terrible in Toronto. He did draft Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire and Tracy McGrady, after all. He screwed up because he wanted power, like he was staring at The Ring for too long. So he tried to put together a group to buy the Raptors and eventually got run out of town. Then he went to the CBA, where he was going to revitalize that league and make it an NBA farm system. Instead they went bankrupt. Soon after he wrote a book on how to succeed in business. And then he coached the Pacers, getting himself fired there because he wouldn't establish a rotation and never seemed to really get a grip on things. Rick Carlisle replaced him and the Pacers are rolling now.

I think it's safe to say that Isiah knows and can recognize talent. The big question will be how long he can stick around in New York without burning all his bridges, something he's done everywhere else he's been.

Oddly, Don Chaney has been the one on the hot seat the last few weeks. Not that he doesn't deserve it, too. The Knicks don't really have an offensive or a defensive identity, and Chaney refuses to try anything new (Frank Williams, for example). Of course, I don't think Phil Jackson could notch substantially more wins with the roster Chaney has, but he would have more wins. That's the issue here: getting the best out of what you've got. That's what Chaney has yet to do.

The name I've already hear this morning is Doc Rivers, though I later heard from another NBA person that David Stern won't let Doc Rivers go anywhere for a while, since he's the lead commentator on ABC's NBA coverage, and he's set to make his debut in three days. The other names bandied about for the announcing gig -- Mark Jackson, Rex Chapman -- have never announced a game before, and there's really no way they could step in and be great with Al Michaels right off the bat. From what I hear, the NBA has too much money invested in this ABC deal to let Doc walk now, regardless of whether or not the Knicks are the premiere team in the NBA.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chaney sticks around through the end of the year, gets canned, and then Isiah brings in Doc. I also wouldn't be surprised if Isiah hires himself, which would be disasterous. Then again, they're your New York Knicks. And anything can happen.

**jordan0386** · 12-22-2003, 03:21 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

a little perspective on the great scott layden

all credit goes to Lang Whitaker of SLAM! Magazine

Why did all this happen? Why now? I don't know. The Layden part should have happened years ago. Let's look at the roster Layden has put together and the money involved:

POINT GUARD: The Knicks go three deep at the one. The Charlie Ward era is nearly over, with his contract up after this season. That will help, since God's Son was making over $5 million this year. Frank Williams is still on his rookie deal, but he's been the most exciting player on the team thus far. He rarely plays, though he came in Saturday night against the Hawks and spurred a huge run that ultimately gave the Knicks the win. So why wasn't he playing all along? Finally, there's Howard Eisley, who's making over $5 million per until 2007! Layden did not sign him to that ridiculous contract -- Mark Cuban did, naturally -- but Layden went out and got him, basically for Glen Rice. That's nearly $13 million at the point. None of the three averages over 9 points per game or 5 assists per game.

SHOOTING GUARD: There's really only one shooting guard on the Knicks roster: Allan Houston. Now, Houston has been battling injuries and is averaging around 20 points per game, but he makes over $14 million through 2007. That's Kobe-type money, and Houston is not a Kobe-type player. He's a great complementary player, and when his jumper is going he's near impossible to stop, but he can't take over a game. It doesn't help when the player making franchise-player money has the charisma of a statue. Houston's a nice guy and he's always been great with the media, but he just doesn't have that personality that a New York player needs to be loved. Plus, he made Latrell Sprewell play out of position for so many years, and Spree was such a favorite here in NYC for having that workmanlike attitude, it was tough to fill his Dada's. That's $14 million a year at the two guard. Hey, he gets $20 million in 2006-07.

SMALL FORWARD: Welcome to the jungle. The two forward positions for the Knicks are a horrible mess, with bad players fighting for time against players who, for one reason or another, aren't what they used to be. The starting small forward for New York is Keith Van Horn, a famously indifferent performer that makes nearly $13 million per season through 2006. He's averaging 14.8 points per through today, nearly a point per million. His back-up is Shandon Anderson, and you could make a case that Shandon has been the Knicks best player this season, if only because he always, in the words of Rasheed Wallace, plays hard. He's not averaging many points (8 points per in 25 minutes a night), but he's the only player that consistently hustles and runs the floor. He's also the only Knick that ever tries to dunk on people, so that wins him points. His salary, though, is a problem: he makes $6 million a year through 2007. Lee Nailon, for example, averages 5 points a game and makes about $1 million from Atlanta. And the Knicks let Nailon walk. Anyway, that's $19 million at the three.

POWER FORWARD: Here's the big logjam. Antonio McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Othella Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon and Michael Sweetney are all fighting for minutes. McDyess, of course, was acquired for Nenê and Marcus Camby, a combo that has combined to help push Denver to the top of the Western Conference. McDyess, meanwhile, can only dunk if he's all alone under the basket, and even then he has to take a second to gather himself. He was once an amazingly explosive player, but that player is gone. Whether he will ever return remains to be seen. McDyess, by the way, is making $13 million this season, though he's a free agent after the year. McDyess's "return" from injury has pushed Krazy Kurt Thomas to the bench, which hasn't made Kurt happy. That's understandable, since Kurt's been the only consistent post player in New York over the last five years. He's also wildly underpaid by New York Knicks standards, making $5 million per through the end of this year. His low salary has made him perpetual trade bait, but he's stuck with it, averaging 14 and 8 last year. Harrington and Weatherspoon are basically interchangeable, two role players that don't understand they should be role players, so they're constantly turning the ball over and making the wrong passes. They have one other thing in common: They're overpaid. Weatherspoon actually makes slightly more than Kurt Thomas, through 2006, but we'll round it to $5 million. Harrington, who may actually be the worst power forward in the NBA, is making about $3 million per, through 2005. We haven't even gotten to Mike Sweetney, who the Knicks drafted at number nine, ahead of productive rookies like Jarvis Hayes, Josh Howard and Zarko Cabarkapa, despite being loaded at the four. Sweetney is currently on the chilling list, because there's no room for him in New York. All together, that's about $29 million at the 4.

CENTER: Hey, is that Dikembe Mutombo creaking up and down the court? The former center, a lithe shot-blocking machine, disappeared. This Mutombo is always the last guy down on offense, and is more concerned with complaining to the refs than just playing the game. It's disappointing, because he's such a great guy. But there's a reason the Nets cut him. Layden gave him $10 over the next three years. His backup is Mike Doleac, who has done nothing and makes the minimum. And Travis Knight is getting $4 million for not being on the team That's about $8 million at the five spot.

You add it all up, and it comes to around $88 million. My figures above might not be exact, but that's around $90 million in salary. That's ridiculous. The Utah Jazz for example, are paying $31 million. Almost all of Layden's moves, actually, were so bizarre that they left you saying, Huh?! Yes, he was that bad.

The Knicks, in fact, are number one in the NBA in terms of salary spent this season.

They've won 10 games.

Any questions?

Actually, here's one: Why Isiah Thomas? Well, he wasn't terrible in Toronto. He did draft Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire and Tracy McGrady, after all. He screwed up because he wanted power, like he was staring at The Ring for too long. So he tried to put together a group to buy the Raptors and eventually got run out of town. Then he went to the CBA, where he was going to revitalize that league and make it an NBA farm system. Instead they went bankrupt. Soon after he wrote a book on how to succeed in business. And then he coached the Pacers, getting himself fired there because he wouldn't establish a rotation and never seemed to really get a grip on things. Rick Carlisle replaced him and the Pacers are rolling now.

I think it's safe to say that Isiah knows and can recognize talent. The big question will be how long he can stick around in New York without burning all his bridges, something he's done everywhere else he's been.

Oddly, Don Chaney has been the one on the hot seat the last few weeks. Not that he doesn't deserve it, too. The Knicks don't really have an offensive or a defensive identity, and Chaney refuses to try anything new (Frank Williams, for example). Of course, I don't think Phil Jackson could notch substantially more wins with the roster Chaney has, but he would have more wins. That's the issue here: getting the best out of what you've got. That's what Chaney has yet to do.

The name I've already hear this morning is Doc Rivers, though I later heard from another NBA person that David Stern won't let Doc Rivers go anywhere for a while, since he's the lead commentator on ABC's NBA coverage, and he's set to make his debut in three days. The other names bandied about for the announcing gig -- Mark Jackson, Rex Chapman -- have never announced a game before, and there's really no way they could step in and be great with Al Michaels right off the bat. From what I hear, the NBA has too much money invested in this ABC deal to let Doc walk now, regardless of whether or not the Knicks are the premiere team in the NBA.

I wouldn't be surprised if Chaney sticks around through the end of the year, gets canned, and then Isiah brings in Doc. I also wouldn't be surprised if Isiah hires himself, which would be disasterous. Then again, they're your New York Knicks. And anything can happen.

**bigeastbumrush** · 12-22-2003, 03:22 PM

Re: Scott Layden Has Been Fired

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

He also drafted some high school kid named McGrady....

<hr /></blockquote> Ever heard of scouts???? You're giving Thomas too much credit. But the stuff I mentioned he F'd up all by himself. Every NBA team has talent scouts that scour this planet for the next big thing and don't get the credit, it goes to guys like Thomas because of guys like you.

<hr /></blockquote>

So you give credit to others when things go well, but it's directly his fault when things go bad?

Look, it was an improvement over Layden. Take it as you wish. If you can name more than one positive thing that Layden has done in his regime here, let me know them.

You must think that guys like Jerry West just fall from trees.

"Austin Croshere"