could it also be a case of Brown respecting the more proven veterans over an unproven rookie? Everyone says he hates on rookies, but maybe he just feels a vet will play better, I don't know
Joe Dumars should be FIRED
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
could it also be a case of Brown respecting the more proven veterans over an unproven rookie? Everyone says he hates on rookies, but maybe he just feels a vet will play better, I don't knowNintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-7009-7102-8818 -
Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
The Carlisle/Brown debates and the Melo/Darko debates are in other threads if you want to really go there.
Here is the bottom line. Joe Dumars took over the Pistons about 4 years ago, towards the end of the year when Grant Hill was playing his final games as a Piston. When Grant Hill announced he'd be leaving Detroit during the offseason, Detroit's cupboard was basically bare. The only player worth anything on the team at that time was Stackhouse. Joe Dumars had just made the mistake of drafting Mateen Cleaves because Hill fooled him into thinking he was going to stay and he wanted Detroit to get the best point guard available (and that draft had no good point guards). So essentially Detroit wasted their 1st round pick, had a bunch of old, over-paid scrubs and looked like they would become the next version of the Tigers (a team that went from winning Championships to becomming the laughing stock of the league only a decade later).
Here is the players Joe had to work with in making moves:
Jerry Stackhouse
Lindsey Hunter
Christian Laettner
Jerome Williams
Mikki Moore
Terry Mills
Michael Curry
John Crotty
Jud Buechler
Don Reid
Loy Vaught
Jermaine Jackson
Eric Montross
............Star studded lineup?...........
............actually.......................
Now here we are nearly 4 years later and the Detroit Pistons are on pace to have their 3rd 50 win season in a row.
50 win seasons are all fine and dandy but at some point you have to build a team that has a nice window of opportunity to chase Championships. What Dumars did was rebuild while somehow still keeping a winning team in the process. If we consider who the top 7 players in Detroit's rotation will be next year once Darko and Delfino are playing, only 1 player will be the same from that 50 win team from 2 years ago which is Ben Wallace. When you consider Detroit's first 50 win team, there was only 2 players who played who were part of the Grant Hill era in Jerry Stackhouse and Micheal Curry.
He also salvaged his two biggest mistakes in Cleaves and White. Rodney White was traded for Milwakee's protected pick which should finally be available to Detroit this year. Cleaves was traded for Sacramento's pick which was again re-traded to cancel out a 1st round pick that they owed themselves from another bad trade from the previous regime.
So with all those trades and changes, when the season starts again next year, Detroit will likely be comming off of their 3rd 50 win season in a row, be looking at a better team who'll probably be expected to take it to the next level and possibly win 55 to 60 games -- all this while possesing possibly the youngest starting 7 man rotation in the league. They also won't be over the salary cap (since that'll be impossible if they want to re-sign Okur).
With a Hall of Fame coach, good salary cap situation, extra first round picks, a young talented top seven players with tons of upside, a balance of talent at every position, and extra draft picks -- Detroit will be in a prime position to make that extra finishing touch to their lineup to make a real push at a Championship next year with a large window of opportunity to follow. They won't be worried about being the best of the crappy Eastern Division. Instead they'll be playing with the big dogs (and not just for just a "one shot deal" either).
So tell me again -- why does Joe Dumars need to be fired?
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
The Carlisle/Brown debates and the Melo/Darko debates are in other threads if you want to really go there.
Here is the bottom line. Joe Dumars took over the Pistons about 4 years ago, towards the end of the year when Grant Hill was playing his final games as a Piston. When Grant Hill announced he'd be leaving Detroit during the offseason, Detroit's cupboard was basically bare. The only player worth anything on the team at that time was Stackhouse. Joe Dumars had just made the mistake of drafting Mateen Cleaves because Hill fooled him into thinking he was going to stay and he wanted Detroit to get the best point guard available (and that draft had no good point guards). So essentially Detroit wasted their 1st round pick, had a bunch of old, over-paid scrubs and looked like they would become the next version of the Tigers (a team that went from winning Championships to becomming the laughing stock of the league only a decade later).
Here is the players Joe had to work with in making moves:
Jerry Stackhouse
Lindsey Hunter
Christian Laettner
Jerome Williams
Mikki Moore
Terry Mills
Michael Curry
John Crotty
Jud Buechler
Don Reid
Loy Vaught
Jermaine Jackson
Eric Montross
............Star studded lineup?...........
............actually.......................
Now here we are nearly 4 years later and the Detroit Pistons are on pace to have their 3rd 50 win season in a row.
50 win seasons are all fine and dandy but at some point you have to build a team that has a nice window of opportunity to chase Championships. What Dumars did was rebuild while somehow still keeping a winning team in the process. If we consider who the top 7 players in Detroit's rotation will be next year once Darko and Delfino are playing, only 1 player will be the same from that 50 win team from 2 years ago which is Ben Wallace. When you consider Detroit's first 50 win team, there was only 2 players who played who were part of the Grant Hill era in Jerry Stackhouse and Micheal Curry.
He also salvaged his two biggest mistakes in Cleaves and White. Rodney White was traded for Milwakee's protected pick which should finally be available to Detroit this year. Cleaves was traded for Sacramento's pick which was again re-traded to cancel out a 1st round pick that they owed themselves from another bad trade from the previous regime.
So with all those trades and changes, when the season starts again next year, Detroit will likely be comming off of their 3rd 50 win season in a row, be looking at a better team who'll probably be expected to take it to the next level and possibly win 55 to 60 games -- all this while possesing possibly the youngest starting 7 man rotation in the league. They also won't be over the salary cap (since that'll be impossible if they want to re-sign Okur).
With a Hall of Fame coach, good salary cap situation, extra first round picks, a young talented top seven players with tons of upside, a balance of talent at every position, and extra draft picks -- Detroit will be in a prime position to make that extra finishing touch to their lineup to make a real push at a Championship next year with a large window of opportunity to follow. They won't be worried about being the best of the crappy Eastern Division. Instead they'll be playing with the big dogs (and not just for just a "one shot deal" either).
So tell me again -- why does Joe Dumars need to be fired?
Comment
-
Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
The Carlisle/Brown debates and the Melo/Darko debates are in other threads if you want to really go there.
Here is the bottom line. Joe Dumars took over the Pistons about 4 years ago, towards the end of the year when Grant Hill was playing his final games as a Piston. When Grant Hill announced he'd be leaving Detroit during the offseason, Detroit's cupboard was basically bare. The only player worth anything on the team at that time was Stackhouse. Joe Dumars had just made the mistake of drafting Mateen Cleaves because Hill fooled him into thinking he was going to stay and he wanted Detroit to get the best point guard available (and that draft had no good point guards). So essentially Detroit wasted their 1st round pick, had a bunch of old, over-paid scrubs and looked like they would become the next version of the Tigers (a team that went from winning Championships to becomming the laughing stock of the league only a decade later).
Here is the players Joe had to work with in making moves:
Jerry Stackhouse
Lindsey Hunter
Christian Laettner
Jerome Williams
Mikki Moore
Terry Mills
Michael Curry
John Crotty
Jud Buechler
Don Reid
Loy Vaught
Jermaine Jackson
Eric Montross
............Star studded lineup?...........
............actually.......................
Now here we are nearly 4 years later and the Detroit Pistons are on pace to have their 3rd 50 win season in a row.
50 win seasons are all fine and dandy but at some point you have to build a team that has a nice window of opportunity to chase Championships. What Dumars did was rebuild while somehow still keeping a winning team in the process. If we consider who the top 7 players in Detroit's rotation will be next year once Darko and Delfino are playing, only 1 player will be the same from that 50 win team from 2 years ago which is Ben Wallace. When you consider Detroit's first 50 win team, there was only 2 players who played who were part of the Grant Hill era in Jerry Stackhouse and Micheal Curry.
He also salvaged his two biggest mistakes in Cleaves and White. Rodney White was traded for Milwakee's protected pick which should finally be available to Detroit this year. Cleaves was traded for Sacramento's pick which was again re-traded to cancel out a 1st round pick that they owed themselves from another bad trade from the previous regime.
So with all those trades and changes, when the season starts again next year, Detroit will likely be comming off of their 3rd 50 win season in a row, be looking at a better team who'll probably be expected to take it to the next level and possibly win 55 to 60 games -- all this while possesing possibly the youngest starting 7 man rotation in the league. They also won't be over the salary cap (since that'll be impossible if they want to re-sign Okur).
With a Hall of Fame coach, good salary cap situation, extra first round picks, a young talented top seven players with tons of upside, a balance of talent at every position, and extra draft picks -- Detroit will be in a prime position to make that extra finishing touch to their lineup to make a real push at a Championship next year with a large window of opportunity to follow. They won't be worried about being the best of the crappy Eastern Division. Instead they'll be playing with the big dogs (and not just for just a "one shot deal" either).
So tell me again -- why does Joe Dumars need to be fired?
Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
As for arguing the Larry Brown and rookies point -- he doesn't hate playing rookies -- he just hates playing anyone who isn't able to play like a veteran. If a 1st year player is capable of playing like a veteran and understands his system, he'll play them. If a 5th year player with tons of upside is still making rookie mistakes, they'll sit. The one thing about LB though is he's one of the best coaches in the league in terms of developing his players even though he doesn't just hand out free playing time for his players to learn on-the-job.
Larry Brown's system is pretty complicated (even for veterans) at first. Since Darko is an 18 year old kid from Europe who's playing a new position on top of all of LB's other demands, it's not a huge shock to anyone (including Dumars) that Darko has struggled to get playing time this year.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
As for arguing the Larry Brown and rookies point -- he doesn't hate playing rookies -- he just hates playing anyone who isn't able to play like a veteran. If a 1st year player is capable of playing like a veteran and understands his system, he'll play them. If a 5th year player with tons of upside is still making rookie mistakes, they'll sit. The one thing about LB though is he's one of the best coaches in the league in terms of developing his players even though he doesn't just hand out free playing time for his players to learn on-the-job.
Larry Brown's system is pretty complicated (even for veterans) at first. Since Darko is an 18 year old kid from Europe who's playing a new position on top of all of LB's other demands, it's not a huge shock to anyone (including Dumars) that Darko has struggled to get playing time this year.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
As for arguing the Larry Brown and rookies point -- he doesn't hate playing rookies -- he just hates playing anyone who isn't able to play like a veteran. If a 1st year player is capable of playing like a veteran and understands his system, he'll play them. If a 5th year player with tons of upside is still making rookie mistakes, they'll sit. The one thing about LB though is he's one of the best coaches in the league in terms of developing his players even though he doesn't just hand out free playing time for his players to learn on-the-job.
Larry Brown's system is pretty complicated (even for veterans) at first. Since Darko is an 18 year old kid from Europe who's playing a new position on top of all of LB's other demands, it's not a huge shock to anyone (including Dumars) that Darko has struggled to get playing time this year.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
if this is the primetime021 from espn basketball online, he sux and all he does is the long pass down court. dont play his sorry cheesy ***.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
if this is the primetime021 from espn basketball online, he sux and all he does is the long pass down court. dont play his sorry cheesy ***.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
if this is the primetime021 from espn basketball online, he sux and all he does is the long pass down court. dont play his sorry cheesy ***.Comment
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
if this is the primetime021 from espn basketball online, he sux and all he does is the long pass down court. dont play his sorry cheesy ***.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Um, we're discussing basketball.
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Re: Joe Dumars should be FIRED
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
if this is the primetime021 from espn basketball online, he sux and all he does is the long pass down court. dont play his sorry cheesy ***.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Um, we're discussing basketball.
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