Lebron in the 90s

[Jerz6er]

How do you think he would compare to himself nowadays if he played back in the 90s? I dont think he would be getting the stats he has now as he would have alot more trouble getting to the basket trying to avoid elbows. Not to mention the fouls he gets called on him every drive he wouldnt be getting. 90s ball was for men basketball is soft as hell now, imo no way he'll ever be as great as mj its a completley different game.

[MattUM]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

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[ojandpizza]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

Better IMO, as well as Dwight Howard, Melo, and probably Rondo.

[ClutchCity]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

Smh who cares? I think it's clear that today's NBA is less physical than than the 90s.Doesn't necessarily mean that Lebron wouldn't be able to compete. You got to keep in mind Lebron does everything very well.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

[lilteapot]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

He's great now and he'd be great then too. There's really no question about it.

[OkayC]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

Like kenny smith says. Superstars transcend eras
/end thread

[ojandpizza]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

I think it goes without saying that great players are great players in any era of basketball. But because its Friday night and I have no plans I'm bored. I feel like talking basketball, LeBron is one of my favorite topics and the "era" arguing is probably the one that annoys me the most. So I'll give my reasoning in my post above that said LeBron, Dwight, Melo, and Rondo might have been even better players in the 90's era than the current one.

First things first, basketball has never been football guys, basketball has always been basketball. The game hasn't had such major changes that its went from a full contact sport to a non contact sport. There has never at any point in the game been so much contact allowed that you could grab, push, or move players so much that it completely altered or changed their game. A great scorer is a great scorer. And my point being is a great offensive player has always been able to trump a great defensive player, regardless of "hand-checking", "rough fouls", and whatever other excuse we can make for how each generation seemingly is worse, or couldn't compete "back in my day".

Offensively, LeBron has always been great at attacking the basket, much like many of the great scorers before him were. Like I said earlier, one man has never in the history of basketball been able to stop the great scorers in our league history. To think that it would change just for the argument of somehow not letting LeBron "be MJ" or as good as any other past player is baffling to me. You put LeBron in the 90's and you take away the one thing that slows him down now, the ability to cram the lane due to zone defenses. Do you really think a simple touching of the hands, of all things, is enough to stop a player with his size, strength, and speed? A hand-check didn't stop players in the past, and a hand check sure as hell isn't going to stop players today, especially players who are big and strong enough to take a slight bump and keep going. LeBron already takes as much contact as any player in today's league, often times not even getting the shooting foul calls other wing players get, despite his"constant flopping" because he, like some others, can play through that contact.. Which brings me to my next point....

A foul is a foul. The biggest difference between today's game and the 90's in that a hard foul today is a technical or a flagrant. A hard foul then was a statement, it was intimidation, it was saying "don't bring that **** back in my lane.".... But guess what guys, it was STILL A FOUL, it's still a blown whistle, it's still two free throws and a chance for two points. How often do great scorers stop looking to score because someone gave them a hard foul? Do some of you really expect a player of his caliber to just have the mindset of being scared to score because he might get fouled? C'mon now... When you take away the zone, or the way Dallas and even San Antonio defended him he's going to get to the basket. And he's probably going to get fouled or score.. Probably not to the extent of the "Jordan rules" but it would be a similar scheme to stop him that guys like Jordan faced. That's just how it worked then. I could see him averaging 10 free throws a game honestly, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Defensively LeBron is already as versatile as probably any player I've watched since Rodman. He doesn't have the footwork and quickness to just stick on his man the way currently Paul George does, or from the past a guy like Pippen does. But his ability to switch on to literally any player and still be an effective defender is incomparable to any player currently playing. You pair that with the hand-checking and it amplifies it that much more. LeBron plays defense primarily by using his length to his advatage, he gives the quicker players space but his length allows him to defend them well enough, and his size/strength lets him handle the bigger guys. The more contact he's allowed the less space he has to give, simple as that.. While a simple hand-check isn't enough to contain a great scorer it will only enhance everything LeBron is already good at defensively. You pair that with the fact that their isn't as many deadly 3 point shooters then as there is now, even the ones who were great didn't take as many and as often, and he's even more dangerous. He can sag off and not pay for it by a barrage of 3 point shooting. Not saying you take him to the 90's and he's the best defender ever, I'm not saying that at all.. But everything about the way LeBron plays defense is geared towards it being even better in past eras. I really don't even think that's opinionated, I think it's obvious.

And last, and arguably the biggest reason he could be even better in the 90's, is that statistically the great NBA players are in a downward trend. Durant is arguably the greatest scorer in today's game but he isn't averaging 30-35 per game the way other scorers of his caliber have. The same works with rebounds, assists, etc. In other threads on here we have had many Wilt discussions. By digging into the numbers (because I obviously didn't see him play) you can see that as the NBA progresses the number of shot attempts declines as time goes by. The pace of the league gets faster as teams want to run and gun more but gets slower in the sense that shots aren't taken as quickly. A large reason why Big O was able to average a triple double, and 6'5" Elgin Baylor was able to average over 20 rebound per game. Teams then were taking 20+ more shots per game, or 40+ more shots total in every game. That's 40 more chances for rebounds, 20 more chances for an assist, and 20 more chances to get points. Stats are always a good comparison for players within the same era, but trying to go forwards and backwards is always going to skew the validity of looking at stats and box scores.

Obviously we aren't talking about the 60's here so for comparisons sake I quickly looked at a few of the Bulls 6 championship teams. I only did this because they were top dogs, as the Heat have been the past couple years, they both arguably had/have the best player of the time period, and because everyone loves to bring LeBron and Jordan into the same conversation. (Not really)... Just from a quick look a lot of those Bulls teams took about 600 - 1,000 more field goal attempts than LeBron's Heat teams.. This is just total attempts on the season. Obviously it's tough to completely judge because the Heat have only had two full 82 game seasons with LeBron. But just off that alone that is more opportunities to score, more opportunities for assists, more opportunities for rebounds, more chances to block shots, and could even back up the argument that LeBron more than likely could get to the line for more free throws.. Though I'm not sure it needed backing up because everyone who makes the argument talks about all the "hard fouls" anyways.... I don't know if he has the mind set to take much more shots than he currently does, but I think it's pretty safe to say that he would probably take a slight statistical jump in just about every category, even without completely changing his play style.

Like I said before with only two full Heat seasons to compare its not perfectly accurate, the Cavs teams I checked still much lower in field goal numbers. But being that the Bulls under Jackson were a team that would pass for good looks when not playing through MJ (like the Heat now) and the Cavs were a Mike Brown clueless offense I thought the Miami comparison was slightly more accurate. In either instance its a likely boost to any great players overall statistical total.

Now I'm not saying LeBron goes to the 90's and we see him as better than MJ, I'm not saying he goes and wins lots of rings, and lots of MVPs, I'm not saying he goes and becomes the best defender of the era.... But out of all the players you could make the argument about for "not being as good in whichever era" he's pretty much the perfect fit. Everything he does well are things that transcend well to that era of basketball, and its highly reasonable to me that his stats alone would at least take a slight jump.

[ojandpizza]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

For the other guys I mentioned...

-Dwight plays currently in an era that big men simply aren't used the way they once were. The biggest issue in my eyes is that he's expected to be a dominant low post threat in a league that doesn't even use a dominant low post threat. For starters he was taught at the beginning of his NBA career, which is a crucial learning period, that he basically should either turn and dunk when he can or kick to a three point shooter. Stan Van Gundy was trying to use the best bigman in the league as the focal point of a 3 point shooting team...lol.... While they had success it ruined what should have been Dwight's growth and development to becoming a great bigman.

Playing in the 90's around an era that utilized the big man as a primary scorer, and as a way of running your offense he would have developed much better. He would have been a better scorer, understand low post positioning, and understand how to use a pick a roll. The league wasn't all score-first point guards, he would flourish from their playmaking. His size, and athleticism alone would make him effective in any era, and since bigman weren't outside shooting 3's I think he could be even better on defense as well. He would be able to play a little more physical and I would expect a slightly higher rebound and block total despite playing better competition inside. As a guy who could average close to 20PPG on roughly 11-12 shots with **** for an offensive repertoire I would love to see how he could have turned out with a more developed game and 16+ field goal attempts.

-Melo is somewhat on the same page as LeBron. He's big enough, and as a player who also takes the extra contact now, I think the whole "hand-check" overexaggeration would have a minimal effect on him. He's a deadly shooter for someone his size and would be a problem for defenders. Mark Aguirre and Alex English already showed us how deadly a wing scorer who posts up can be in that generation. And Melo is bigger, quicker, and a better shooter than they are. That with his ability to handle the ball and create his own shot he would be the total package.

He would still have his bonehead moments but offensively I think they would be much less compared to now. Melo has shown he can make passes within an offense, he just rarely chooses to. Teams then would stress teamwork slightly more than now but more importantly people would be moving. When Melo goes iso now teammates just stand around hoping to get the open 3. In a more moving offense with players not camped on the 3 point line I think he would be much less of an eye-sore and more of a team player. Although I would still expect high shot attempts and big scoring outputs.... Defensively though he would be as lost as always if not worse IMO.

- Rondo is a pass-first playmaking guard in a scoring point guard era. I feel with his ability to get into the lane he would be an even more effective scorer if he wanted to be. But being that players then knew how to move and get open rather than Rondo just creating the majority of plays himself I feel his vision and passing would just become that much better. Pair him with a coach that knows how to utilize a good PG or a bigman who can dominate with pick-and-rolls, I think his game is much more suited for that role.

Defensively I consider Rondo the most versatile PG in the league. He's tall, strong, long armed and he uses that to lockdown PGs and switch on to bigger players on switches if necessary. Adding the slight extra contact, or hand-checking, and it has the same effect I argued for with LeBron. It just enhances his defense and makes him that much better. Also with since there won't be 15 point guards who score around 20 a game he won't have to focus quite as much on the end, leaving him with fresher legs to dominate fast breaks.. I think he would have a slight bump in assist and rebound totals, possibly points since he's already not used to taking lots of shots anyways. Also since he doesn't rely on over dribbling and "ankle-breaking" crossovers I think he'd be a better fit than other guards in today's era. His excellent ball fakes add just enough crafty-ness to his game to make him a perfect "old school" player.

- I stress again that I'm not saying LeBron, Dwight, Melo, and Rondo would go to the 90's and be the all time bests at their positions. But these are just the first 4 guys from this era that popped into my head as being players who I thought might actually be even better in another era. Dwight likely wouldn't be the best bigman in the league anymore though, because of how good the bigmen in the 90's were.. But I do feel these 4 would have a good opportunity to be better in that era. Maybe not, but at least a better fit that most.

-just my thoughts on a topic I find annoying yet interesting at the same time.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

I'm using Tapatalk and for a second I thought you were Bumi because of that long *** essay you wrote. Took me a minute to scroll past all that.

[Rocky]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

Obviously he would be great. The question is whether the early 90's Fratello Cavs teams could've took down the Bulls or Knicks from the same era assuming you're adding Lebron to that team. Adding Lebron to Price/Daugherty is pretty potent.

[24]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

He would succeed in any era largely due to the fact that he is a very skilled player and the greatest physical specimen the game has seen in long time, quite possibly ever.

Wish this all would end. Lebron's one of the greatest player to ever live. Let's just agree on that point and end the discussion. This pisses me off so much. You can't definitively say that Player X is better than player Y if they didn't play against each other. Not to mention the constant comparison's between him and Jordan make absolutely zero sense because they are two different players entirely.

Not to take it out on you, but everyone needs to stop. Just appreciate what Lebron does and enjoy it while it lasts.

[JazzMan]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

I thought we already had a Lebron James thread.

[Dice]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

I thought we already had a Lebron James thread.

I guess some folks still aren't sold on Lebron's greatness as a player.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Lebron in the 90s

The 90s wasn't really a great period for the NBA. They took the hand-check away early on and started letting schoolboys and Europeans flood into the league.


More interesting is to wonder how LBJ would have done from about 64 to 69 when the competition was fierce, fast and fundamental every night. LBJ would play power forward and would have to face off against DeBusschere, Johnson, and LaRusso.