1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

I don't like the teammates argument either, but I also have no problem with somebody other than the "best in the league" winning the award. Which is why it wouldn't bother me for Durant to get it this year and didn't bother me that Chuck and Malone "stole" a couple from Jordan.

But there actually is written criteria for the MVP award.
"given to the player who contributes the most to their teams success during the regular season"..
And since stats and team record can't fully answer that is the reason we have a large panel of voters.

Oh dang, I didn't even know there was actual written criteria. That doesn't really help much though hahaha.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

Oh dang, I didn't even know there was actual written criteria. That doesn't really help much though hahaha.

It doesn't help at all lol

[OkayC]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

And I never said Durant only gives them scoring.. C'mon now

I know what you were trying to say, no big deal.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

And I never said Durant only gives them scoring.. C'mon now

It came off that way .

So MVP has to be the best at everything on the team? Idk that

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

It came off that way .

So MVP has to be the best at everything on the team? Idk that

I didn't say that either? If you read I actually said I feel Durant should get the MVP???

I said I wouldn't say he is more valuable to his team than LeBron is, someone asked why and I explained why I felt that way.

What I said had nothing to do with who the MVP should be or that you have to be the best at everything on your team to win one.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

I didn't say that either? If you read I actually said I feel Durant should get the MVP???

I said I wouldn't say he is more valuable to his team than LeBron is, someone asked why and I explained why I felt that way.

What I said had nothing to do with who the MVP should be or that you have to be the best at everything on your team to win one.

Who said you said that?

KD is averaging what nearly 30 pts 7.8 reb and 5+asts LBJ 26 6.6 reb 6+ Asts ? It's tough to say who contributes more.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

To expand on that, I would argue that Tony Parker is just as "valuable" to his team as either of them or anyone else in the league.. Because I don't feel that anybody "runs" their team the way he does. Similar to how Nash was with the Suns, though they are completely different players. They were both always in control of their team, the tempo, they control the game well..

But that doesn't mean I believe Parker should win the MVP award. Just as I can call Durant or Aldridge, or PG the MVP and still think LeBron is more valuable to his team than they are.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

Who said you said that?

Are you serious with this or is it some mind trick thing? Because you've completely lost me and I have no idea what you're even asking.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

KD is averaging what nearly 30 pts 7.8 reb and 5+asts LBJ 26 6.6 reb 6+ Asts ? It's tough to say who contributes more.

I won't even attempt to have a stat line argument against you because stats alone have never determined the league MVP and they never should.

Plus this stat line has nothing to do with the rest of this conversation. I'm sure we all have access to NBA.com and post any players stat line, good job.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

I won't even attempt to have a stat line argument against you because stats alone have never determined the league MVP and they never should.

Plus this stat line has nothing to do with the rest of this conversation. I'm sure we all have access to NBA.com and post any players stat line, good job.

Dude chill out . Only the first sentence in each or my post references you. That second sentence is a general response to the thread . In both posts. That's why I space them out. Ain't Nobody got time for arguing .

[Pokes404]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

Oh, Jeeze. What did I start!? lol. OK, let me try to explain where I was coming from.

Lebron does a lot for his team, no doubt. Damn near everything. KD has improved his defense and playmaking ability, but still isn't on Lebron's level in those areas. However, I based my "More Valuable" statement on the fact that the Heat play in the East and have a number of proven veterans on their roster. Even with D-Wade going in-and-out of the lineup, I feel like they would still be a competitive playoff team without Lebron.

With Westbrook out for large portions of this season, if you took Durant off this team, we'd probably be picking in the lottery this summer. I know you hate this argument, ojandpizza, but it's hard to argue that the Thunder wouldn't be in worse shape without KD than the Heat would be without Lebron (it'd obviously be a major blow either way though).

Also, OKC is playing 3 young guys big minutes. Reggie Jackson has a couple years of experience but is having to play a different role than usual. This is the first year Jeremy Lamb has played any meaningful minutes. And Stephen Adams is a rookie. KD is doing a great job of leading these young guys, and at times, bailing them out when they aren't producing. I'm not saying that Lebron's leadership isn't also really important to the Heat, but as a whole, Miami is a more experienced group and could probably handle his absence a little better.

Throw in the fact that KD's scoring opens things up for others, he's one of our better rebounders, his playmaking ability off the bounce is underrated, and his sheer length his able to alter/contest shots and create problems on the defensive end, I think Durant is more vital to the Thunder's success than Lebron is to Miami's.

I'm not saying Durant is better than Lebron. I still think Lebron is the best player. I'm just saying I think Durant is more important to his team ... it's a pretty slim margin though. It's going to be an interesting 2nd half to the season.

[FlyRice]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

Fourth game in five nights of the texas triangle + OKC roadtrip, and still had a chance to win tonight. Can't be disappointed in getting 2 out of 4. But **** I wanted this game badly. See you back in Portland!

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

Oh, Jeeze. What did I start!? lol. OK, let me try to explain where I was coming from.

Lebron does a lot for his team, no doubt. Damn near everything. KD has improved his defense and playmaking ability, but still isn't on Lebron's level in those areas. However, I based my "More Valuable" statement on the fact that the Heat play in the East and have a number of proven veterans on their roster. Even with D-Wade going in-and-out of the lineup, I feel like they would still be a competitive playoff team without Lebron.

With Westbrook out for large portions of this season, if you took Durant off this team, we'd probably be picking in the lottery this summer. I know you hate this argument, ojandpizza, but it's hard to argue that the Thunder wouldn't be in worse shape without KD than the Heat would be without Lebron (it'd obviously be a major blow either way though).

Also, OKC is playing 3 young guys big minutes. Reggie Jackson has a couple years of experience but is having to play a different role than usual. This is the first year Jeremy Lamb has played any meaningful minutes. And Stephen Adams is a rookie. KD is doing a great job of leading these young guys, and at times, bailing them out when they aren't producing. I'm not saying that Lebron's leadership isn't also really important to the Heat, but as a whole, Miami is a more experienced group and could probably handle his absence a little better.

Throw in the fact that KD's scoring opens things up for others, he's one of our better rebounders, his playmaking ability off the bounce is underrated, and his sheer length his able to alter/contest shots and create problems on the defensive end, I think Durant is more vital to the Thunder's success than Lebron is to Miami's.

I'm not saying Durant is better than Lebron. I still think Lebron is the best player. I'm just saying I think Durant is more important to his team ... it's a pretty slim margin though. It's going to be an interesting 2nd half to the season.

I agree with a lot of the things you're saying here, but we aren't taking Durant off the Thunder and we aren't taking LeBron off Miami. I'm not sure why we would assume what either team would do without them because they aren't going to be without them. I feel Durant is more important to his team currently with Westbrook out, but when he's around I think it's LeBron. But we can't act as if Westbrook has missed almost the entire season, he's only missed 5 more games than Wade has.

As for the points you've made above about the lesser team, other than experience I think a Westbrook, Seph, Lamb, Ibaka, Perkins, Adams, Jackson team is better than Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Haslem, Bosh, Cole, Allen. Perhaps not simply because the Western conference is so much stronger but in terms of head to head I think it's better.

Bosh would be the only reliable scorer with Wade's knees struggling, and while they have experience, nearly every guy on this team has lost a step. Battier, Haslem, and Chalmers have all missed games with injuries. And even with Bosh being a decent scorer, he hasn't had to create his own shot in 3 seasons now. He's become lazy, and only scores 2 more PPG than Ibaka. Not to say he wouldn't score more as a go-to guy.

Miami loses their best playmaker, rebounder, scorer, and defensive player. Not only that but they would have to completely change their defensive game plan that they have used for 3 seasons now because it completely relies on LeBrons ability to guard multiple positions and getting Bosh out hedging screens. Also they would no longer be able to play small ball and without LeBron creating most of the teams offense they would be lost, because they don't have a point guard currently on the roster capable of getting everyone else involved.

They are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, and would only get worse. Especially since they already play small and only have two true centers on their roster in Birdman and Oden.. Oden who can't play big minutes and Birdman who never should.

At least without Durant you still have a strong defensive team, a strong rebounding team, your best playmaker, rim protectors, and at least two guys who are plenty capable of creating their own shots.. And for the most part your game plan could stay similar. Obviously the scoring output would drop losing Durant, but the game plan in general wouldn't have to change much. Not that Brook's has much offensive structure anyways.

Wade has looked fairly good when on the court this year, he seems to be a little more crafty and wise to pick his spots.. But realistically he can't carry a team, they can't expect him to be creating his shots, defending, rebounding, and setting up guys on offense, or even just play star player minutes... They would almost have to run everything through Bosh. Which might be effective? I have no idea but just saying it makes me LOL.. Westbrook can carry that team. While he makes boneheaded decisions at times he would be a guy capable of scoring 20-25 per game while still getting the other guys involved. Though they may or may not be a playoff team due to the tough conference.

But like I said, we aren't taking either guy off either team. So it's basically pointless for either of us to assume they would be without. It's about what they bring to the team, not about how well the other guys could play in their absence. Both Durant and LeBron bring so much to their team individually, and both are 90% of the reason their teams finish towards the top of the conference. (Not a factual number, just making that up) lol

To me, this is the difference: if Miami is struggling with rebounding, LeBron will go grab 12 boards. If they are struggling to get shots, he'll dish out 12 assists. If they need to score, he'll drop 30. If they need a stop, he'll switch on the best player. He understands where all of his teammates are most effective, he knows where they like to shoot, where they cut, he knows how to get them involved. He makes everyone on that team better... Not saying Durant doesn't make the guys around him better, but it's just not to that extent... That's how I gauge his value.

But I'm the same as you, I don't think it's a large margin. We just have the two switched around lol.

[CMH]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

I see we didn't have enough games last night. The MVP argument has hit the board.

Popcorn time.


Sent from my mobile device.

[Pokes404]

Re: 1/21 - 1/27 Games Discussion Thread

I agree with a lot of the things you're saying here, but we aren't taking Durant off the Thunder and we aren't taking LeBron off Miami. I'm not sure why we would assume what either team would do without them because they aren't going to be without them. I feel Durant is more important to his team currently with Westbrook out, but when he's around I think it's LeBron. But we can't act as if Westbrook has missed almost the entire season, he's only missed 5 more games than Wade has.

As for the points you've made above about the lesser team, other than experience I think a Westbrook, Seph, Lamb, Ibaka, Perkins, Adams, Jackson team is better than Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Haslem, Bosh, Cole, Allen. Perhaps not simply because the Western conference is so much stronger but in terms of head to head I think it's better.

Bosh would be the only reliable scorer with Wade's knees struggling, and while they have experience, nearly every guy on this team has lost a step. Battier, Haslem, and Chalmers have all missed games with injuries. And even with Bosh being a decent scorer, he hasn't had to create his own shot in 3 seasons now. He's become lazy, and only scores 2 more PPG than Ibaka. Not to say he wouldn't score more as a go-to guy.

Miami loses their best playmaker, rebounder, scorer, and defensive player. Not only that but they would have to completely change their defensive game plan that they have used for 3 seasons now because it completely relies on LeBrons ability to guard multiple positions and getting Bosh out hedging screens. Also they would no longer be able to play small ball and without LeBron creating most of the teams offense they would be lost, because they don't have a point guard currently on the roster capable of getting everyone else involved.

They are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, and would only get worse. Especially since they already play small and only have two true centers on their roster in Birdman and Oden.. Oden who can't play big minutes and Birdman who never should.

At least without Durant you still have a strong defensive team, a strong rebounding team, your best playmaker, rim protectors, and at least two guys who are plenty capable of creating their own shots.. And for the most part your game plan could stay similar. Obviously the scoring output would drop losing Durant, but the game plan in general wouldn't have to change much. Not that Brook's has much offensive structure anyways.

Wade has looked fairly good when on the court this year, he seems to be a little more crafty and wise to pick his spots.. But realistically he can't carry a team, they can't expect him to be creating his shots, defending, rebounding, and setting up guys on offense, or even just play star player minutes... They would almost have to run everything through Bosh. Which might be effective? I have no idea but just saying it makes me LOL.. Westbrook can carry that team. While he makes boneheaded decisions at times he would be a guy capable of scoring 20-25 per game while still getting the other guys involved. Though they may or may not be a playoff team due to the tough conference.

But like I said, we aren't taking either guy off either team. So it's basically pointless for either of us to assume they would be without. It's about what they bring to the team, not about how well the other guys could play in their absence. Both Durant and LeBron bring so much to their team individually, and both are 90% of the reason their teams finish towards the top of the conference. (Not a factual number, just making that up) lol

To me, this is the difference: if Miami is struggling with rebounding, LeBron will go grab 12 boards. If they are struggling to get shots, he'll dish out 12 assists. If they need to score, he'll drop 30. If they need a stop, he'll switch on the best player. He understands where all of his teammates are most effective, he knows where they like to shoot, where they cut, he knows how to get them involved. He makes everyone on that team better... Not saying Durant doesn't make the guys around him better, but it's just not to that extent... That's how I gauge his value.

But I'm the same as you, I don't think it's a large margin. We just have the two switched around lol.

Can't really disagree with any of that. But I will say that when I said that Durant is "More Valuable" to his team, I meant right at this moment. With Westbrook out, and the West as brutal as it is, we'd be toast without KD. This team is bottom 1/3 in the league in 3-pt shooting and has no big men that can play in the low post. Miami would still be able to spread the floor with shooters, drive-n-kick with Chalmers/Cole, and pick-n-pop with Bosh.

I say all this to try to illustrate that I feel Durant is more important to the Thunder right now because we truly could not operate without him. Meanwhile, I feel like Miami could absorb Lebron not being out there a little better. Thus, making KD the more "valuable" player. The definition they give for the award is so vague that we're all forced to kind of make up our own rules on how to judge this thing lol.

Bottom line, Lebron is still the best player in the world, but Durant is nipping at his heels. It'll be an interesting MVP race. I mean, if Durant plays like he has the last 8-10 games the rest of the year then he'll be a lock for the MVP. Unfortunately, no one can keep up a stretch like this forever.